Six:

You asked me 2 come here and see if I could offer some suggestions. Frankly, I think you've been getting some very good advice here.

There are a few common quotes I could add, I suppose:

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. But if you were truly indifferent 2ward your W, you wouldn't engage her in any activity, great SF or whatever.

Love is not a feeling, it is a choice. I submit 2 you that your staying has been out of real love, regardless of what excuse you may be making (e.g., "for the kids"). Having said that, however, you can certainly get the feeling back. Get professional help with that.

Like others have said, staying until the kids move out and then dumping her is cruelty, and the resentment you are expressing here is more likely a result of your unwillingness 2 put all your cards on the table and be honest with your W about how you feel than it is anything she's doing (done, sure, but she's not having an affair now, right?).

Taking responsibility is liberating. Take responsibility for the way you feel and look in2 why you feel that way. Get help with understanding your feelings/reactions about what's happened, and then talk 2 your W about them and see what she's willing 2 do 2 help make your marriage better. If you do that, but your marriage can't be improved for whatever reason, maybe then you'll have earned a DV.

-ol' 2long
Back gone...

2Long,

I don't know what I feel really, I spend so much time not feeling.

What do you think of the idea of just telling her that she has hurt me deeply, and I don't know how we can repair our M. Then I could give her the journal and just leave her sometime to read it. If she really does love me again and has just forgotten what she has done, then it will be crushing to read.

You could do that. You'll get farther 2ward a workable middle-ground position if you're honest about how you feel than if you stow it any longer.

If you're worried she'll be crushed reading your journal, why not call one of the Harleys for coaching, and let them help you tell her how you feel? They will start with you individually, and work with you as a couple when it is appropriate.

-ol' 2long

2Long,

I'll think about calling the Harley's that is a good idea. I do want her to see the scope of what she has done, I'm just worried that it is too much to take in. I would be ashamed if I had said and done these things to someone I hated. I think it would be better for me if she could take some time to really process before we talk. It will be hard for me to hear that she doesn't even remember these things.

I would:
visit a psychiatrist to see if you need antidepressants
start them if so, wait at least a month so the meds can take effect
get the kids out of the house for the day/night
hand her the journal
tell her you need her to read it; that you have to decide what to do, as you've been in pain for the last 10 years
go play golf or something so she'll have time alone
bring home some flowers, take home, and a bottle of wine
sit down at the kitchen table and talk
if it gets bad, take a break, but don't leave til you have some sort of resolution

I don't think I would hand her the journal
I think I would keep that to yourself for now.
I am thinking that if my H handed me a journal and said "Here, read this" it would seem a little weird to me.

Plus, there is something about looking her in the eye and holding her hand as you talk. I have found with my new H, when I want to have a serious talk, that may potentially turn emotional, If I sit next to him, hold his hand, and look right at him, it usually goes better. But maybe that is a chick thing!!

I know that after all of these years of M, it will be hard to open up such a deep, emotioanlly charged converstaion, but I think it is important for you to talk it out.

Perhaps if you sat down and started by saying "I have really been thinking about us lately. you have been so attentive, and I appreciate it, but I am puzzeled by it. And it has really brought some stuff up to the surface for me, and I really need you to finally talk about the inappropriate relationship you had 10 years ago. I need you to be honest, and really get all this out, for once and for all. I know this is going to be hard for both of us, but please start by telling the truth.

I think this would be a good way to start.

I still don't think I would hand her the jorunal to read - I think you need to speak it out. But perhaps this is the best way for you.

You have come a long way in the past couple of weeks.

WOF5,

I think the journal could be creepy, but it was more a way of coping than an indictment. I like the way you suggested of getting started and then I think I can bring up the journal if she won't tell the truth. It probably does not help the situation that I am a very loyal person, I value loyalty, and I have ditched very close friends in the past for betraying me. She know this is part of me and so do all of our friends. It is usually a big positive for all of them because they can count on me. In this situation I'm guessing it will be scary for her.

I'm going to do it this weekend.

I couldn't take it anymore, and since the kids were all out we started talking tonight. Here is as best I can remember, it didn't seem to go that well. She is reading the journal now and pretty much crying uncontrollably, I can't be there right now.

The kids were out so she approached me about SF, I said It's nice that you are being so good to me lately, I'm hoping I can get to a place where I'm happy with our M.

She said We've always been happy.

I was nice but shocked I said I've been miserable since August of 1997 when you started having an affair with T and told me that you wanted a D and never loved me. I've done all I can to keep it together for the kids.

She said it wasn't an affair and it only lasted a couple of weeks.

Again I was calm but obviously upset. I said it lasted until June of 1998 when he dumped you, after that you treated me like garbage until this June.

She said maybe it was 2 months and it was not an affair.

I reminded her that I keep journals when I am dealing with hard or upsetting stuff and I had the one from that year and a half. I asked her to read it and told her that we could talk about it when she was ready. Then I came down into my office.

That was VERY well done, man. Can't imagine a better way to handle it. Let us know how things turn out. Don't forget that she may have changed her 'history' in her mind to erase her guilt. And when she comes to you, just listen. Let her spill her guts about anything and everything. And promise to be completely honest with each other from this day forward, and you just might find that love again.

Thanks Catperson,

It was surprising. I decided you guys are right and I can try the MB stuff. I'm going to be here anyway. I wish I felt something for her right now, but I don't. I guess we have time to see if it can work. It was a little like talking to a crazy person.

Think of it this way. If you learn the MB principles and start practicing them, even if you don't stay, in 6 years, you'll have had a lot of practice being a better person.

Just promise me you'll work really hard to keep communicating honestly with her; above all, you need communication.

All RIGHT!!!!

Way to go 6years. A little honesty in this relationship after a decade. You have started a process that will free you from many things, perhaps your marriage, perhaps you lack of feelings, definitely your resentment.

Even if she decides to debate with you how you feel or don't feel, the fact is this is the way you do feel based on how she has treated you.

I do want to point out, you are entitled to your feelings of wanting to leave this marriage. You are entitled to specify that it will be after the kids leave for college. You are entitled to move on with your life. But, given that you plan to hang around for 6years more, why not open the doors to more options than just leaving. It does not prevent you from making that decision when the time comes.

I think you are going to be surprised at what you hear from your W. She has been living in a very different world than you have. And apparently she is clueless or simply refuses to see the damage done by her actions and statements.

Be honest, be open, and listen more than you talk.

God bless,

JL

6, you did really well with this tonight.

The fact that she is crying uncontrollably is a good thing. It may be very stormy for a while, but you are going to find peace about all of this.

Glad you went the honesty route. What is in it that is making your WW cry. What is there that she can't refute.

6YL:

Wow. No, WOW!

Way to go.

I would LOVE to hear about what happens next.

I recommend that you LISTEN to her for the next week of so. Do not Challenge her when she spews what she spews.

Correct, or state quietly, "that isn't correct" in a level voice and without anger when she says something that is obviously foggy and/or false. If you yell and scream, then she will withdraw, or believe that she is winning and her lies are working on you.

You looking at her, directly in the eye, and responding with calm and measured tones, will let her know that YOU DO CARE. YOU DO KNOW. And you DO KNOW A WAY OUT TO SOMETHING better.

Hold her. Alot. Let her cry on your shoulder. She won't be crying about OM, she has already done that. She will be crying about the lost time, the lost life and the dishonesty of it all.

That journal? Your truth and your feelings and thoughts about what was going on with you during that dark time for her. Reading that is a dagger to her heart.

But a wound that can heal.

Please return and let us know what is happening. This conversation with your wife, no matter what, will mark a turning point in your M.

Your simple plain response to her got her to move her "story" of her A to more and more truth. Just wait, the rest will come.

The truth will set you free.

LG

I am SO PROUD of you.
This is such a big step, and I am SO GLAD you decided to take it.

You have done such a hugely positive thing. Hold onto that knowledge and don't forget it. The path is going to be bumpy and you'll probably wonder if you did the right thing. You may think it would have been better to maintain the status quo. I can tell you from experience that after the tears and arguments and sleepless nights, you will feel SO MUCH BETTER about yourself. You'll have the peace that comes with a strong sense of integrity, and the confidence that comes from having done the right thing when it was difficult.

I totally expect that you and your wife will decide to work together on the marriage. I think that in six years when the last kid heads off to college, you'll look back at this time and be so very thankful you decided to bring all this out into the open. You'll be in such a strong and happy marriage that you'd HATE the thought that you came close to losing out on it. And even if you *don't*, you can go forth into the world knowing some very important (and positive) things about yourself; things that *don't* involve sweeping unpleasantries under the rug.

Do you realize that by this action (honest discussion with your wife) you have grown immensely as a person?

Don't get too hung up right now on "lies" that your wife tells about the affair ten years ago. Her memory is almost certainly inaccurate. Focus on Honesty and Openness in the here and now, and going forward.

CONGRATULATIONS for doing the difficult, but so very right, thing.

Great job - I am glad that you opened up and are trying to deal with this in a positive way -

Keep us posted as we are all interested in what happened.

She read part of the journal but was not ready to talk about any of it, she said she will soon. She asked if I'm leaving and I said I'm staying until the kids are grown. She said I love you to me, but I couldn't say it back.

Then she wanted SF so we did that. I don't know where we are now but she was quite into the SF.

6YL:

Wow.

All that in one night.

10 years of logjam are clearing.

I'm proud of you.

The question was a good one. Your answer was honest.

She recognized that YOU HAVE been there for ten years.

After ALL The things she did.

You might be amazed at what starts to happen.

LG