My wife and I are on vacation and had a fight. The fight involved her stating "we should be giving away more money" and "I feel the closer we grow as a couple, the farther away God gets". I told her I was hurt by those comments and that was a huge withdrawl. I'm asked her how much more should we give away, nothing she replies. I asked her to tell me more about the conflict she sees in us becoming closer and her growing farther away from God. She thinks the MB material doesn't have enough spiritual emphasis. Even though she likes the affection and closeness we have together, the 15hours a week is becoming a conflict for her in her relationship with God as a priority. I said that shoulds like your needs have moved from affection to some spiritual closeness as a couple. I mentioned I would be willing to met that need but she was unable to explain how I could meet that need. I asked about another couple, or a book that could help show what she's looking for from me. She had one couple, older than us - her aunt. The aunt and uncle are retired, I work and my wife stays at home. I mentioned that they travel and have lots to time together b/c he doesn't work and they do lots of volunteer work. We do as well - but that's the only thing she could point me to as a couple with "God closeness".

We've been learning and living the MB material for over 14 months. I'm feeling lost as to what to do and how to resolve this conflict. I say conflict b/c she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. It's a conflict b/c she doesn't want to spend time with me right now. Even though I'm hurt that she thinks we don't give enough money or have a "God closeness", I still want to spend time with her but she doesn't want to spend time with me right now. Conflict. Anybosy have thoughts as to what's going on? And what to do to resolve? Thanks.

I don't understand how she feels she can't do 15 hours a week with you because it takes away God time, but she stays at home. Can she not find time for God while you're at work? That sounds like an excuse.

And I don't get the donation need at all.

Something is missing here. Either there is something else that you're not saying or there's something else that she's not telling you. Does she think that you aren't a good Christian? Does she respect you in that regard? Do you all have kids? Is it possible she that she wants to work instead of staying at home?

FL2,

If you look at the MB logo in the upper left corner of the website, you will see a triangle with two arrows pointing upward toward the top point. This very thing has been used for a couple of generations that I know of to describe what is supposed to happen within a Christian marriage. If the top point is God, and the arrows represent you and your wife, then the concept is that as you both get closer to God you naturally get closer to each other. The very idea is a Christian idea.

There are many Christian concepts scattered throughout Marriage Builders. Doctor Harley has stated that he himself is a Christian.

That said, Dr Harley's stated goal is not to help just Christian marriages, but all marriages. He doesn't seek to help just typical marriages, but all of them. So he has refrained from quoting passages of NT scripture or pointing to the writings of Paul so that the ideas he wants to express are not a stumbling block to those who might not be Christians.

The concept of the 15 hours per week is in fact an idea that God would understand. Your wife too should grasp its importance if she feels she needs to spend more time alone with God. It is what God expects of those who love Him to spend their time with Him. Why would he expect anything less of two people that love each other?

I would also suggest that based on the fact that "Bible Study" is one of the recreational activities listed in the REI questionnaire from Dr Harley, that it could in fact be one of those things that make up part of that 15 hours per week UA time. Assuming that it is something you both enjoy doing, it would be easy to do it together and actually spend more time in bible study and at the same time be spending the time together as a couple. The two do not have to exclude each other, IMO.

I also think that God expects married couples to love and care for each other just as He is does toward us. To let one's marriage lapse into something less than what God expects of it because we want to be closer to God seems to me to be antithetical to what God desires.

All I am saying is that the two do not have to be mutually exclusive and that since God expects us to care for each other and show our love to one another as He himself sacrificed Himself for us, it would be a more Christian perspective, in my estimation, to build a strong marriage that would honor God.

Now I know that you are not the one that needs convincing from what you have said, but assuming that you are both Christians, I think the 15 hours per week should be a goal that does not conflict at all with time alone with God since both of you should be doing that already...

More time with God and less time with a spouse, is NOT a biblical concept.

If your wife would like to come here and ask, I would be very willing to point out various places in the bible where the MB principals are shown by example. And there are a few others that I would bet would join in as well.

Edited to add:

RE: The greater donation thing...

God expects 10% right up front. In the OT this was to go to the local storehouse to support the priests and to help take care of widows and orphans. When confronting the scribes and Pharisees, Jesus chastised them because they gave ten percent of everything they had but forgot to have mercy and grace toward others. Jesus stated that they should have done the former without ignoring the latter. So the 10% is also a mandate from Christ.

Dave Ramsey speaks of giving as something we need to do because it helps to mold us to be more like God, since He is Himself a giver. Jesus gave Himself for us because He loves us and when we give it makes us more like Him. But Ramsey also points out that God expects us to take care of our families first. When we neglect our own family in order to give to some local or national para-church organization, we are not following biblical guidelines. Ramsey says he runs into people all the time that are behind on their mortgage and yet are current with the national ministry they give to every month. I agree with him that this is NOT something God sees as good.

I can also tell you that in order to give beyond the 10% that should be going to the local congregation first, both husband and wife need to agree as to where it will be going. Just giving without regard to what is being done with it is also not something that we should be doing.

While God promises a blessing in response to our giving, he does not spell "blessing" BMW. So giving to gain financially is non-biblical. The word translated as blessing in the Hebrew is the word Shalom and also means "peace." When we give with a cheerful attitude, God blesses us. Sometimes He blesses us financially and some times it is something He does inside us, since when we give, we become more like Him.

Any of that help?

Mark

Aloha FL2,

Spending time with God and with a spouse is never exclusive of one another. People with a relationship with God will strive to honor God in everything they do.

Therefore; time with a spouse, working on their M will be time honoring God. Time at work should be time honoring God. Time at home with family should be time and actions that honor God. We do not take time from God when we spend it somewhere else or with someone else. Unless we are doing things that do not honor God.

If a person is not working on their M then I would suggest that they are not honoring God.

JMHO. Blessings.

S&C

DKD-

I have had lovebusters in the past that she is reacting like it's happening now. When we've had conflict before MB, I would push to resolve the issue while she backed away. Many issues started to back up b/c she didn't want to go continue discussing the issues. So I started to get frustrated, then upset, then yell. Then the yelling became the problem, not the original conflict. She would really withdraw after that. During this last discussion on the trip, she wanted us to give more money away. We were discussing the "shack" book and that's she wanted me to know she thought MB was bringing her closer to me but farther from God. Then, she brought up the donation idea as something she wants us to do more of, give more.

So, during the conflict, I didn't yell or get upset, instead I told her I was hurt when she said she was growing towards me and away from God and that we should give away more money than we do currently. Immediately she said the discussion wasn't going well, that she shouldn't have brought it up. She said she's got some really bad memories about this subject when she's brought it up before.

DKD -

She says she respects me more as I've been loving her better. As a christian leader in our house, she wants more but isn't specific.

We have 3 kids: 16, 13 and 7 (older are boys, youngest is a girl).

She has a framing business that is not steady income. She likes the freedom of having the business but it's not much income at all. I've asked her to go back to work after the kids were old enough for all-day school. So far, she has no interest in a part-time or full-time job.

Mark1952-

Yes - that helps some. She has met the Harleys, discussed this with Steve Harely about adding more scriptures to the material. We've discussed the 15 hours/week are based on meeting each other's emotional needs. We determined what the needs are - her top is affection. I mentioned maybe her 2nd need is spiritual in nature that she maybe didn't identify before but is now.

If she is asking me to be more open about my spiritual life, that would be one thing. But she's not clear when we talk about what it is she's asking me to meet. I feel like I'm pulling teeth trying to help her define her need.

We give currently 5% of our income, and much more of our time. I am the sole breadwinner, while she has a business that brings in about $1-$2k in taxable income/profit a year. I get a bonus at the end of the year and we give mostly from that. I write a check monthly for expenses for food, clothing, gas, etc - I pay the bills. Currently we can't afford christian education for our 3 children so her parents pay for it. They also pay her couple hundred dollars a month for helping with the grandparents - visiting them in the nursing home. I have asked her to get a part-time job now that the kids are in school and she has time but she likes the freedom of having her own business.

So when it comes to giving more money away, I'm strapped to conclude currently that it's possible.

S&C-
Thanks for the thoughts. I've felt the growth spiritually as I've learned how to meet my wife's emotional needs. I can't understand how she could feel closer to me and farther from God. I don't get that.