This is a common occurance. I am not sure why - but it is somehow related to her fear of loosing you. It is also common to experience a honeymoon phase.

I am so glad that it is all coming out into the open for you both, finally. Wow. Can the two of you get away, alone, for a few days??

a thought which came to mind for me:

Her definition of A may be different from yours. (I know, that is weird, but follow w/ me for a moment) so I would not jump to the assumption that she is still "lying" about it. It is possible that in her mind it was not an A, it was more like an "inapproiate relationship". If so, my suggestion here is to let her know that "any type of relationship that is hurtfull to me, to our M, and to our family is obviously inappropriate. But in this case, I must stand by my original statment that it is/was an A. You shared things with this man, in secret, that should have only been shared with your H. emotions, feelings, physical aspects, and that is an A. It is very impotant to me that you finally aknowledge the depth of that A, and how it has affected me."

There is a statement that says: If you would not do that, or say that, while your spouse was standing right there next to you, then it is not approriate, and should not be done, or said, at all"

you may want to share this staement with her, as a boundary you would set for ALL future inter-actions she has, with men and women both. She should not say things to other women, that she would never say in front of you. And obvioulsy, she should never say anything to another man, that she would not say in front of you.
and of course, that would apply to you as well

Very well done!!! I'm so proud.

WOF5,

I do not think it is a gray area affair. In addition to the awful things she said, I have details of nights spent in the same hotel room on business trips, not sex details of course, but I think that a night in the same one bed room is bad enough. The most charitable interpretation I can give her is that she tried to forget it. Also we had one or two instances of "inappropriate behavior" leading up the A, mostly talking to another man about private stuff. She knows that is bad and hurtful.

We can't get away alone this weekend but we have tomorrow evening alone together. I'm not sure she will be ready to talk. I like the wording about if you would not say it in front of me then don't say it. I already live by that rule, except on this forum, but I am much more private than she is.

How long should I give it before I just say, time to talk.

Wow, I've been keeping up with your thread and it's amazing to see your mindset work. It's like the train bumping and jumping along on the track and finally beginning to settle down for a smooth ride.

I would not give her too much longer otherwise you guys will go right back into that "if we don't talk about it, it's not real" mode. I see that as a major issue with your marriage (and I can REALLY relate to this because my DH and I have had to overcome this very thing.)

I personally would not be able to sit still much longer knowing that it's "out there" now. She's probably afraid. Very afraid.

Princess M,

I'm a planner, I admit it. That got me to where I am today. I don't know what she is thinking. She was all weepy today before I left for work, but she held it together until the kids were out to school. I asked her to finish the reading today, she said ok but was obviously upset.

I guess it is good that I am not a screamer, and I never ever say things I don't mean, unless it is a joke. My dad really rode us hard on that as a child. It can make me a little stilted during conversation but I don't have to regret stuff that comes out of my mouth.

I would like to talk tonight and I would like her to admit to PA and apologize, but I doubt it will happen that soon. I'm almost 100% sure I will get a non admission general apology. What is the best way to say not good enough? Should I reassure her that she has time to work on this?

I agree w/Princess Meggy.
The LAST thing you want to do is fall into the "We won't talk about it" rut.

She's probably terrified of the talks, even though you said you're sticking around until the kids are grown. You'll need to be the one to drive this thing; she'll be too petrified to think clearly.

I know you're ambivalent about whether or not you want to work on the marriage, but you truly have nothing to lose. It's not going to get worse than it is by working on it. If she's on board, it could be GREAT! And if she's not, well, nothing lost and you've still grown as a person and you're equipped to be a better person, friend, and husband in the future w/someone else if you so choose.

Have you read Surviving An Affair? It would be a wonderful tool for the two of you right now. If I were in your shoes, I'd say to her "I found something that I think might help us. Will you read this book with me and work through the questions and exercises, and give it a chance?"

I think she'll go for it. Are you up to it?

By saying, nope, uh-uh. I know what happened. You know what happened and there is no way in hell our marriage can continue on "as is" until we get down to the basics and for once have some radical honesty.

If she does admit, I imagine you'll get your apology. But are you going to accept it? No one expects you to. Not right away. You can even tell her that... that you appreciate her honesty and her apology but it's going to take some time for you.


It's taken you guys a good long time to get to where you are now and it's going to take a good long time to get to where you want to be. The honesty is a start. The apology is a move in the right direction.

You could tell her this but then say something like, I know a way to try and heal us.

See, most people get to this point and then they flounder when they try to continue on their own. That's what's so great about MB, because there is actually a plan and something you can do together to rebuild or recreate your marriage. But it's going to take both of you wanting that.

What is it they say in AA? The first step is admitting that you have a problem. Once she admits this, things can change.

Thanks PrincessM and TurtleH,

I'll push for at least a little talk tonight. I don't want the marriage right now, but I'm here for 6 more years, and I'm not going to act like a jerk. I'll think about buying that book but I'm not feeling too motivated since I've just done a big burst of hard stuff and I was already big on the negative side. I was motivated by guilt because I felt like I was getting SF under false pretenses. At least, I feel less guilty now.

Would it do her any good to read it?

It would do you BOTH good to read it. Good luck tonight.

I'll let her go first then. I'm definitely here for the 6 years and I would like things to be better but I'm super low on motivation today.

Would it do her any good to read it?

I think so, yes. It will help her understand how she became vulnerable to an affair and how she allowed herself to cross boundaries. It will teach her skills for a healthy marriage.

A lot of it is really directed toward couples that are reeling from the effects of an ongoing or recently ended affair. Now that I think about it, a better book for you guys (individually or as a couple) would be "Fall in Love, Stay in Love".

That one teaches you a LOT of great marriage skills (that you could use now, or later). Examples:

The concept of the love bank, in which you do nice things to make deposits and every time you do a not-nice thing you make a withdrawal. She's pretty happy with the marriage now (or was) so your account in her bank is pretty full. You're miserable and checked out, so her account in your bank is very low.

States of intimacy in a marriage: intimacy, conflict, withdrawal. You're in withdrawal right now so you're not open to letting her make deposits in your love bank; you're checked out. That can change, though, and Harley tells how.

Avoiding love busters, which drain a huge hole in your love account faster than it can be filled up. You can do a ton of sweet things but if you make assumptions about how she feels or what she thinks, that's a disrespectful judgment (DJ) and will negate a TON of deposits.

Meeting ENs and how you tend to meet your own ENs which may not really be *felt* by your spouse if they don't share the same top ENs you do. If SF is important to you but not to your spouse, you may always be pushing for SF and they may feel like a piece of meat at the market. You (and she) learn to step outside of what feels "right" to you and meet the needs of each other.

POJA - policy of joint agreement. Not making big decisions w/o the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

Negotiation techniques.

I'm sure there's more but it's a great book. It will help both of you whether you stay in this M or not. Even though you're burned out from the big efforts you've put in recently, it would probably be worthwhile to work through this book (FIL, SIL) with her simply because she has information you need to get better at these skills. It would be good practice, and good stuff for you to know about yourself, regardless of what you decide to do about the M.

Don't try to do this all at once. Take it easy. You've already stepped into honesty, and that's a biggie -- probably the hardest. Do talk to her, but take time to catch your breath and enjoy life, too.

TurtleH,

I'll think about it, I read the first few pages of SAA online. I'm too burnt right now, I can't do it. The best I can do, today at least, is to be nice at home and tell her I need some response. I'll keep working to meet her EN's and avoid the LB stuff. I am familiar with the concepts, as I have been doing the one sided thing for a long long time. I don't ever ask for my needs to be met, that all ended 10 years ago.

I'm still here for 6 years, so today I just need some support. If she could take a little step it would sure help.

I just can't put Me agreeing to stay up for POJA, not yet maybe not ever.

I have to agree with what SchoolBus posted:

"You see this as your wife's problem, and solely hers. You prop yourself up as the moral person in this marriage, because you have not cheated. But you hold some responsibility to the marriage and to the state of the marriage YOU CHOOSE TO CONTINUE.

You see - you CHOOSE TO STAY IN THE MARRIAGE. Because you make this choice, you have a responsibility to make this marriage work, and that means you have responsibilities to your spouse, including HONESTY.

That honesty would include your plans to divorce her.

See, it is not "okay" for you to hide your plans, any more than it is "okay" for her to hide her affair.


Because you choose to remain married, you must also choose to work on that marriage and make it right - because regardless of what you believe, your children KNOW exactly what you feel toward their mother. You cannot help but ooze that disdain.

And your posts ooze it, too.


I see also in your posts a sense that you feel somewhat entitled to use your wife for whatever she can give you. Your taker is in full swing.

Because she has had an affair does not make you entitled to use her.

Because it took her "too long" to make her way back into the marriage does not make you entitled, either.



It may very well be that your attitude toward your wife, and the failure of the both of you to address the affair in the first place

had more to do with the state of your marriage at this point in time


than anything your wife is doing or has done over the past few years"

Dude, IMHO you are holding a grudge, and in doing so are planning to hurt your wife as your revenge. You are also hurting your innocent children too. Talk to your wife, tell her you haven't forgiven her, that in your opinion she hasn't compensated for what she did, and that you plan to divorce her when the children are grown. You are not entitled to keep that info from her while you nurse your grudge and plot your revenge.

Meremortal,

I think you are a little behind the current status.

Hey guys,

I'm headed home from work. Wish me luck for the weekend.

LUCK!

6yl,

Glad you decided to open up the affair discussion, and to get some work going in this marriage.

Since you have six years, you might as well get started!


Good luck.

Oh BTW, I've found that the best way to confront someone telling me a lie is to say to them

"You expect me to believe that?" While I stare straight into their eyes.



(Then again, most people who know me well, know better than to try to lie to me. )



If her apology or confession seems too general, you can squeeze her with very specific questions.


Ask open-ended questions, nothing that allows a yes/no response. Always think like you were THERE, and watching the scene - ask her to walk you through step by step, and stop her at each interval. For example, "In the hotel room, as you sat on the bed, tell me, how were you two seated? What type of clothing were you wearing?" This can help you get more information, and help you know if she's lying. You probably know your wife, and can see her signs of lying.


SB

So, W has been reading and crying alot, and wanting SF a ridiculous amount. She asked if it would be ok if she just wrote down what happened because she can't say it to my face. I said ok but we will still have to talk after.

I'm relieved but very sad.

So, do you feel there is any hope for your marriage, or are you going to choose to divorce her?

6years,

Simply ask her to do you the honor of being honest in what she writes down. You already know of the affair. You already know how she has treated you. What you need to know is why and what has been in her mind for the last decade and what has changed in the last few months.


Sad?? Why! You should have been very sad for the last 10 years. Finally obtaining the truth from your W should help you get through the next 6 years, and who knows perhaps more.

I know you are in full withdrawal from her, it is/was the only way you could continue with the marriage. However, realize you may have more options than you realize, but that realizing this does not take away your current choice of action.

God Bless,

JL