I don't know...when he gets married to a cheating woman, I guess we would find out.

I do not advocate a RA...I think it is sad and wrong. BUT, if it results in the affair ending...I say good for the BS. See, there are far too many WS out there that think they can act with impunity...that there are no consequences that will result in their marriage ending. Some of them require a bit of fear to get them moving.

I do NOT think it should have happened as Lilsis was right to hold her head high and maintain her dignity...but I always suspected that if SHE were to have dated...he would have finally understood what he was doing. I think this would be especially true of fence sitters...those going back and forth between the spouse and affair partner.

Again, I don't think it should happen...but in these cases, it is better (for some) than the alternative.

FWIW I don't know why. Two and a half years ago I made a very stupid choice. I chose to reconnect with the OM. That ended because I ended it and, yes, I behaved extremely badly after that. Mel had to do what I wouldn't do and I hate myself for that.

Since then I've been a model and perfect wife. I ENJOY being that. I LOVE being that. Our household is a very happy one. I'm 54 years old, I'm menopausal, I work with 8 other middle aged women, I'm up to my ears in wedding plans with my DD, I LOVE my H, I LOVE my life. We are a very, very happy middle aged couple.

Kiwi...back when you went through this a few years back, you thanked me for being fair with you. I continue to be nothing but that. I deliver a 2 x 4 to anyone that I feel needs one...I am still the same person. I have gotten on you a few times because you were patently unfair with me...but, I have no problem with you despite your thinking that I do. When I deliver a 2 x 4...one actually delivered and not imagined by you...you have and will know where it comes from.

I agree with Jen if my DH said to me that he was going to have one on me It wouldnt have stopped me. My errors lay in boundaries and morals.

However DH had a RA on me. I say it was when I came back to our side of town he said it wasnt. I dont know for sure, no proof. However I have realized tonight why his RA really effect me. It was because when we were in talks of getting back together 10 yrs ago I wanted full truth. He said there was no one and never anyone. He told me the RA because he wanted to hurt me. He took the RA back because we kept throwing the A and RA in each others face.

8.5 yrs later is when he came clean.

I couldnt believe I was that person 10yrs ago. Only thing I gained from my A was a OC that I gave life to and gave her to a great family. What I lost from my A was trust and respect.

Now 10yrs later. I have a great H who I would die for if I can. I have a very happy home. I have set boundaries and know his boundaries. I love him. And I love what our M has grown to.

as is so frequently said around here, you don't know what you would have done until you are faced with that situation.

I hear this all the time on MB's...I am not sure I agree with it in all situations though.

But that was my point. This assumes causality. It assumes that the RA caused the end of the affair and that doing things the MB way would not have.

And yeah, I know lots of affair partners now married for a long time. Some of them for almost 40 years.

If RAs are wrong, how can they be the right thing to do?

If my kids are starving and I rob a 7-11 to feed them, though my cause might have seemed noble, I am still wrong in knocking off a convenience store.

See, I just don't buy "the end justifies the means" idea at all. If Sis had lowered herself and begun dating, or moved in with another man and her husband came back begging, she might have her husband back but would have lost a part of herself.

I think the ones who are paralyzed with fear and do nothing or try to fix it all at once are the ones who often end up losing, especially when it comes to BHs. But saving marriages at all costs is not what MB is about and I know you don't buy that idea.

Giving up one's dignity to save a marriage by letting the WS cuckold you forever is not a MB concept.

And neither is a revenge affair.

If I leave for work 15 minutes late, drive 90+ on the highway and still get to work on time I can say, "See. It worked for me."

Still can't make it right though.

And yes, I do see it as that simple of an equation. Right or wrong? That's the only question I think needs to be answered. If right, then no justification needs to be given.

If wrong, no justification can be given.

Mark

Intro - you don't get to know if your wife would have ended the affair or when had you not joined her in infidelity.

You sold out your integrity for someone without integrity and you can never get that back.

And you have no remorse about that.

All I'm doing is holding up the bill of sale you refuse to acknowledge - you are less than you could have been or once was. You chose out of pain and needs - and it's understandable - I've never said that it wasn't. But there are many betrayed husbands here who took the high ground. Several are divorced or divorcing. That's their way of coping, but they have their integrity.

There are some who's marriages have recovered and their wayward wives fully earning the "F" in front of WS. They didn't have to sell out their integrity either.

I wish so much that you could say the same.

Agree very much with every word!

I never wanted to hurt my WS. I was too consumed in my own pain.

Am I some sort of exception?

No, you're not an exception. I understand where you are coming from.

I actually agree with most of your post KA...but the above statement only tells part of the story. There are more BH's here...by my count since I have been here, many more...that took the high road only to see an affair continue.

You are in the first category of high grounders -
The affair didn't end. Hasn't ended for Jameses, SD, and SWW for example and they will take the same high ground that you did.

It's a brazen thing for a wayward to continue the affair after discovery. But my husband's waywardness says NOTHING about who I am, and I will not let his behavior dictate that I become LESS than I am. Yes it's painful. Yes, I was robbed of my sense of safety and feeling attractive and valued. I still did not give up that part of myself that had any hope of recovering these things. That's what I see Introvert as having done - at some point he WILL see how he sold HIMSELF out to feel like a man again, and he will feel..... less of one for having done it.

KA, maybe I don't belong in that category because I can say with 100% certainty that if I could have ended her long term affair (and in the process keeping a family intact for my son) by having a ONS RA I would have done so and NEVER regretted it for a minute. I am suggesting that the pain that everyone had to go through as a result of betrayal after betrayal was so severe that I would sleep just fine at night if it resulted in the affair ending and my son not being scarred for life. The Lord would see into my heart and my sin would be dealt with...but I would sleep just fine.

KA, we may need to agree to disagree on this stuff.

Now THAT is a classic line out of the wayward handbook...minus the "R".

"I can tell you that had I not had an A, there would be no way that I could stay with neglectful husband".


Yep, classic wayward mentality.

Many people use the excuse of having an affair to be happy enough to stay in a neglectful marriage.

It doesn't wash.

committed

I don't understand that thinking either. It's like, well, you got some...I'm getting mine...we're even.

MEDC - we can agree to disagree - but this much I know about you without knowing you...

You have an incredibly strong moral compass. The fact that it didn't cross your mind to have an RA is part of it - because having an RA offers NO guarantee the WS will end her or his affair. And it didn't occur to you because you have a strong sense of right and wrong, and I don't believe you have it in you to do it!

Intro's and Dude's marriages are not recovered yet. Intro remains VERY hardened toward his wife.

Let's revisit this conversation a year or two from now before we conclude that RAs can be in any way effective in recovering a marriage.

Mark,

Your posts are correct and very insightful.

But, you need to remember that I did not know MB even existed at the time of my WW's A.

It's easy for me to use hindsight and say "I should have went to plan B", but I didn't know what plan B was.

When I think back to when my instincts were telling me she was in an affair, and I started to investigate... I was fully engulfed in a plan A without even knowing about MB. Then dday happened. Then it was 2 months of false recovery. Then dday #2. At that point, all bets were off, and I had the RA. After that I found MB.

Integrity is in the eye of the beholder. It's not for anyone else (even you) to decide if I have integrity or not.

I have integrity...sorry to break it to you.

This is something I consider to be more of an integrity breaker than how I handled things.

I can say with complete honesty that I would have less intregrity today if I sat idle moping, crying, begging, meeting WW's EA's (all of which some guys are doing here every day) and did nothing while my wife was screwing POSOM.

Those members are losing integrity every day.

But to each his own I guess.

Nobody said that an RA is effective in recovering the marriage.

I said that it helped end my W's affair. What marriage would I be recovering right now if the affair didn't end?....none...so what I did (although wrong and immoral, in a religious and legal standpoint) was basically the start of recovery.

We would be seperated today if she didn't come to her senses and realize that I wasn't going to hang around wallowing, waiting for her to end her affair. Essentially a plan B probably would have worked, but plan B is basically letting your WS bang OP for a while, then come to their senses.

Anyone engulfed in plan B right now, my hat's off to you...because to me, doing plan B is like a woman knowing she's going to be raped over and over, but buying a months worth of condoms for the rapist to repeatedly use on her. If I were that woman I'd rather spend that money on a cheap gun and shoot the guy between the eyes...quite frankly. But, some people here would be sure to tell her how she "sinned", "acted unGodly", "lost integrity", etc.... if she killed the rapist.