I'm throwing this question out there:

Outside of the obvious (abuse in any its manifestations), when would you feel that divorce is the only option in the face of infidelity?

For me, it was the second A and it occurred with my really good friend who happened to be the dad of my oldest son's best friend. I decided right then and there that I would never stand for that kind of behavior and filed ASAP.

What are your opinions?

I knew it when ex-WH said, I should have seen it coming, that I deserved what I was getting, and that he is the way is because of me.

more than 1 affair would do it for me.

pregnancy

std

involvement of children

The only time divorce is the true only option is when the other person forces it upon you.

You always have a choice to stay or to go.

I'm not saying you should. What I'm saying is none of the reasons cited, multiple affairs, abuse, FORCE you to divorce. You can always choose to stay.

You may not want to stay. But you always have the option to stay.

The only exception is when the other person makes the choice to divorce and gives you no say in what happens.

Other than that, you always have a say in if you remain married, or you end up divorced.

As a Catholic, and as a person IN LOVE, divorce is the ONLY option in very, very few instances.

Outside your guides you listed (PHYSICAL abuse) I see chronic, GENUINE unrepentive chronic infidelity, as the ONLY other reason I see as divorce being the only option.

And, really, even if your SPOUSE divorces YOU, it does not mean you have to divorce your spouse. I will ALWAYS be married, regardless of what my wife decides to do so that she can get the life she "deserves".

You know, IF, divorce REALLY was about just YOU (the person initiating the procedures) then, EVEN as detestable as it is, I can UNDERSTAND it. But, when you stood there, and EXCHANGED VOWS, made a PROMISE, GAVE YOUR WORD (have you EVER met a person who DOESN'T say his or her word is gold?) you were promising to do something, that IF you BROKE that promise would change your AND YOUR SPOUSES LIVES, FOREVER. You see that part about changing YOUR SPOUSES LIFE? That change will occur to his or her life REGARDLESS of whether they WANT it or not. You basically PROMISED to do something, have CHANGED you mind and are going to CHANGE your spouses life,,,,,FOREVER.....and your spouse HAS NO SAY...........over THEIR OWN life.....all because you changed your mind.

Thats why this marriage thing, those VOWS, are a BIG DEAL. Not one to take lightly. God, there is even something going on now in society where people are having 'STARTER SPOUSES'!! Can you kill me now, please?

I've had people get ticked at me and say, "well, what are you saying that I HAVE to go back to a crappy marriage, a crappy husband or wife and a crappy life?" No, I'm NOT saying that at all. I am saying that you go back and WORK on it, regardless of how long it will take. If TWO people really really try to do something, eventually, in all reality, it will probably get to where you want it. And if NOT, IMPROVEMENT of the relationship is very, very possible.

The ONE thing I can see as being ANOTHER possibility is when BOTH really want a divorce. ANd I mean BOTH. And that doesn't even take into consideration the kids, if there are any.

You know, I see people working YEARS AND YEARS at OTHER things that mean something to them. Work, career, health.....all things that if someone doesn't LIKE the way things are, they try and try and try to make better. And I see people sign CONTRACTS, for cars, phone service, houses......where they do ANYTHING they can to make sure they COMPLETE the contract, getting second jobs, moving to another city, ANYTHING. Yet the biggest contract you agree upon is basically thrown away as soon as it gets hard. And society doesn't help. Try walking away from a real estate contract. See if society doesn't make sure that there is a price to pay...... It's really unbelievable.

The last possiblity is that marriage has ALWAYS been in tact because of lying, male domination, and societal scarlet letters.
That marriage is, in reality, something unnatural. Therefore changing partners is something that natural man will do, when society unlocks the cuffs. That marriage is some kind of "feel good" fairy tale, a product of smoke and mirrors.

I like fairy tales.

IAMSPAM, for me it would be an ongoing affair or a 2nd affair. If my H had a 2nd affair then I would know he had not really changed and would not be interested in him. Nor would I be able to tolerate an ongoing affair without ending up in jail.

I did allow my H to stay after his affair, but if he had not worked very hard to demonstrate some real changes, I would not have been interested in staying married to him because I lost all respect for him.

"The last possiblity is that marriage has ALWAYS been in tact because of lying, male domination, and societal scarlet letters.
That marriage is, in reality, something unnatural. Therefore changing partners is something that natural man will do, when society unlocks the cuffs. That marriage is some kind of "feel good" fairy tale, a product of smoke and mirrors.

I like fairy tales."

A really good book that explains and defends the 'fairy tale' view of marriage, and what God designed marriage to be, is 'Wild At Heart' by John Eldridge. BTW, the reason we are so attracted to fairy tales is because they so accurately reflect the desires God gave us by design.

IMHO the people who think marriage is nothign more than going steady, that divorce and remarriage (rinse and repeat?) is normal or OK should stick to just marrying amongst themselves.
I guess that's why there are 'covenant' marriages now for people who want a more real marriage? If I marry again I don't even want to get married in a church that would agree to perform a marriage ceremony for adulterers. That wouldn't exactly make me feel as if my marriage ceremony meant anything. I am starting a christening and wedding gown business and I wouldn't even want to make a wedding gown for an adulteress who is marrying the WH she stole from a BW. I feel very strongly about this and if it's not legal for me to 'discriminate' that way, or if I can't think of some way to verify that the bride isn't an OW, I probably won't even bother making/selling wedding gowns at all. Remember when wedding ceremonies had a part where the 'does anyone know of a reason to object to this wedding' question?

IMHO the people who think marriage is nothign more than going steady, that divorce and remarriage (rinse and repeat?) is normal or OK should stick to just marrying amongst themselves


God, thats good. It really describes what I was so clumsily tried to say. MOST divorces have a 'victim', someone who's vows meant a whole lot more. Youre right, if their "contract clause" people who
quite don't understand what "till death do us part" means....then divorce would be fine.

I've been trying to read up on covenant marriage movement. Boy, is it getting hammered from the "enlightened" crowd. The social "elites".

See, if you are NOT going to keep your vows, then, LIVE together, or get married WITHOUT the vows, something. BUT, it seems most people LOVE the pomp and circumstances, the ROMANCE SAYING those words, but HATE the idea of actually having to go through the SACRIFICE of LIVING those words.

Getting into this MARRIAGE thing, I FULLY understood the hardships involved with it. I understood the chance of infidelity, I understood the difficulty of intertwining two lives into one, the hardships involved with raising children correctly. I just WAS NOT prepared for one of us to....."change their mind". Is it too late to change my order??

I guess that's why there are 'covenant' marriages now for people who want a more real marriage? If I marry again I don't even want to get married in a church that would agree to perform a marriage ceremony for adulterers. That wouldn't exactly make me feel as if my marriage ceremony meant anything. I am starting a christening and wedding gown business and I wouldn't even want to make a wedding gown for an adulteress who is marrying the WH she stole from a BW. I feel very strongly about this and if it's not legal for me to 'discriminate' that way, or if I can't think of some way to verify that the bride isn't an OW, I probably won't even bother making/selling wedding gowns at all. Remember when wedding ceremonies had a part where the 'does anyone know of a reason to object to this wedding' question?

Its your biz, so you can discriminate ANYWAY you want amongst your customers. I am REALLY impressed that you would do what you just wrote. Foregoing.....oh my GOD!!!!MONEY!!! for a moral stand.

Good for you!

I said the words...got married in a Catholic Church...and guess what...they mean squat unless your spouse lives up to them as well.

The notion of lifelong marriage is not an idea I was EVER exposed to growing up. This was a FOREIGN NOTION to me until I came here. Were the rest of you taught this growing up?

I was taught it by a father that should have kicked my mom to the urb. I think lifelong marriage is a great idea so long as the marriage is healthy.

Mel,

Yes, I was taught about life long marriages by my folks. So were my siblings. but, that doesn't mean a marriage may or may not fail.

NOw to address the original post.

As for divorce being the ONLY option? I really don't like that question. Frankly, anyone with imagination can think of at least a handful of responses to an A or a second A, or a third A, beside divorce. This includes having an A of their own.

However, if you are asking if deciding you have had enough is justifcation for a divorce especially with a second A with your best friend. Most would probably say yes. I would.

However, what really counts and really the ONLY person that counts is YOU. Is it sufficient justification for YOU to divorce?

JL