Since for whatever reason, the last thread was locked, can we please try and have a respectful political discussion. We live in America and are guaranteed the right to free speech. So let's continue on issues that aren't so personally charged like:

1. Education
2. Economy
3. Environment
4. Health Care

p.s.
ML, I hope no offense was taken in the last thread. You are entitled to your opinion just as I should be to mine. I certainly did not mean any disrespect.

If you want to talk environment, I think catperson said it best on another thread:


I have NO idea what either candidate's policy is on the environment at this time. I haven't been following and all I ever hear here is the abortion debate vs. McCain's infidelity.

I guess I'd better start paying attention, then.

Charlotte

P.S.) I hope you were able to pass my message on to LaLa. Thanks.

Thanks, Want! However, ya might want to change the thread title since that would be construed as continuing a locked thread and bypassing a moderators lock. I have seen other threads locked for that reason alone.

Thanks, Char...I got it and responded!

ML, For my part in the erosion of intelligent discussion to name-calling, I apologize.

The candidates opinions.....

JohnMcCain.com: Environment

BarackObama.com:Environment

I think both candidates have a good plan to help preserve our environment. Sadly though, so much of it has gotten out of our control. We can only do so much here in the United States and we are going to have to count on the global community to do their part. Pretty scary stuff when you consider the amount of pollutants that China puts out and their likeliness to cooperate with global environmental standards.

Want2Stay

I don't have a dog in this fight, because I'm not voting for either - one because of his affairage and the other because of the abortion issue.

However, I do think that whoever wins has his hands full. One problem is the huge dept that we have accumulated. Something has to give - there can't be tax cuts and lots of spending.

The other problem is our dependence on oil. I was listening to an ad on TV today that said that America comsumes more than 25%
of the world's oil and only produces 3%. Somehow we have to change our habits. And I don't see that happening.

For me, the economy is the #1 issue facing this country. It's pretty dire - much worse than the gov't is willing to let on. My husband is a CPA and investment broker, so we tend to follow it pretty carefully. There are a lot of economic indicators that are pointing to a very rocky time ahead. Friday's news about unemployment being at a 6 year high wasn't unexpected.

I would say energy and the environment (for me) are right behind that but I want to skip ahead to health care.

I am a planning analyst in one of the largest hospital systems in the southeast. I have been in health care administration my whole career. The American public has NO idea how bad things are going to get unless we 'fix' the health care system. Insurance companies (who are in it to make $$) are continuing to ratchet down on what they are willing to pay for while premiums continue to go through the roof. With the baby-boomers retiring in mass in a few years, Medicare is not going to be able to afford the bill. 80% of all health care dollars are spent helping keep people alive during the last year of their life.

This country is going to be faced with health care rationing whether we like it or not. It's is a system that has been broken for many years.

I am not advocating a 'socialized' medicine approach but think about the reality of health care in the US today (which, by the way, we do not have the best in the world if you measure it in terms of average lifespan - we rank 9th in the world but spend the most per citizen).

What we have is a weird triangulation - patients pay the insurance company a flat fee and then the patient and physician decide what health care is needed. The insurance company foots the bill. There is NO incentive to prevent diseases, only to cure them because that is how physicians and hospitals make their money. Nor is their any incentive to choose the least costly treatment. As an example, one area that has sky-rocketed is imaging. Now everyone and his brother is getting an MRI for every little back pain or headache. Medicare has estimated that claims for MRI has increases 138% in five years.

One of the few ways out of this mess is to shift some of the risk to the patient and health care providers. As in 'the insurance company pays the health care provider X dollars a month' to treat and keep the patient healthy.

This is a dramatic paradigm shift. But it will happen. The alternative is rationing or socialized medicine. I would love to hear how others perceive this problem.

BTW, my husband is a small business owner. His insurance premiums have increase 20 to 30% a year for the last five years. It really sucks. I have my son and me on my insurance at the hospital but my husband has a chronic illness and we are afraid to move him off his insurance to mine because his medicine is $1,000 without insurance.

I found this on an investing site I freqeunt, and it might help to understand what each proposes for taxes, an issue important to me as it directly influences our quality of life.

"The Tax Policy Center has recently updated the Presidential Candidates’ Tax Policies. I encourage you to read the entire report:

A Updated Analysis of the 2008 Presidential Candidates’ Tax Plans: Executive Summary - August 28, 2008

The summary report is only 6 pages long and contains some helpful graphs.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next ten years, according to a newly updated analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Neither candidate’s plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified.

Compared to current law, TPC estimates the Obama plan would cut taxes by $2.9 trillion from 2009-2018. McCain would reduce taxes by nearly $4.2 trillion. These projections assume the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts expire in 2010 and that the Alternative Minimum Tax is fully effective with 2008 exemptions.

Both candidates prefer to compare their plans to the “current policy” baseline, which would extend the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts and indefinitely extend an indexed AMT “patch”–and collect nearly 3.6 trillion less than under current law over the coming decade, while McCain would lose $600 billion. But choice of baseline doesn’t change how the proposals would affect the budget picture; without substantial cuts in government spending, both plans would sharply increase the national debt. Including interest costs, Obama’s tax plan would boost the debt by $3.5 trillion by 2018. McCain’s plan would increase the debt by $5 trillion.

The Obama plan would reduce taxes for low- and moderate income families, but raise them significantly for high-bracket taxpayers. By 2012, middle-income taxpayers would see their after-tax income rise by about 5 percent, or nearly 2,220 annually. Those in the top 1 percent would face a $19,000 average tax increase–a 1.5 percent reduction in after-tax income.

McCain would lift after-tax incomes an average of about 3 percent, or $1,400 annually, for middle income taxpayers by 2012. But, in sharp contrast to Obama, he would cut taxes for those in the top 1% by more than $125,000, raising their after-tax income an average of 9.5 percent.

These projections are built on descriptions of the candidates’ plans provided by senior McCain and Obama staff. However, TPC has also projected costs based upon what candidates have actually said on the campaign trail, and those promises paint a quite different picture.

TPC estimates that one version of McCain’s proposal to create an optional simplified individual income tax system would increase the cost of his plan by more than $1 trillion over 10 years.

Obama has proposed raising the payroll tax for those earning over $250,000. Again, he has not provided details, but TPC assumes this would be a 2 percent income tax surcharge on adjusted gross income. . .Such a plan would increase taxes on high-income workers by nearly $400 billion over a decade.


What About Healthcare?

In the July 23 update of its analysis, TPC added a preliminary estimate of the candidates’ health care proposals. Because the campaigns did not provide complete plans, TPC assumed certain details.

We conclude that the McCain plan, which would replace the current exclusion for employer-paid premiums with a refundable income tax credit of up to $5,000 for anyone purchasing of health insurance and make other changes to the healthcare system, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years and modestly trim the number of uninsured.

The Obama plan, which would make relatively low-cost insurance available to everyone through non-group pools and subsidize premiums for low- and moderate-income households, would cost $1.6 trillion, but would also cover virtually all children and many currently uninsured adults.

TPC projects the McCAin plan would trim the uninsured by 1 million in 2009 and nearly 5 million by 2013, although their numbers would slowly rise thereafter because the tax credit would fail to keep pace with premiums. Obama would reduce the uninsured by 18 million in 2009 and 34 million by 2018. Even under the Obama plan, however, 34 million Americans would still lack insurance in 2018.

In answer to your question from another thread...I have a BIG problem with the war..AND MORE SO ABORTION. Democrats supported the war based on the same intelligence as the President. Congress authorized and continues to pay for military action. Barack ****edit**** acts as though he opposed going to war???? Did he really???? He didn't have a vote!!!! Yet he pretends he did.

1 MILLION babies are slaughtered in this country every year by butchers and their supporters (those that vote for pro-choice candidates). I am against the death penalty...I am for gun control...I am against unjust wars or military actions...BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING I AM AGAINST THE SLAUGHTER OF UNBORN BABIES. And fools like we have on this board that reply with a "yuck" when it is suggested that they look at pictures of what they are really doing are as unchristian as any creature walking this planet.

There are people here that are so shallow that they would vote for this idiot because he is black and they think he is "fine." They put aside their supposed Christian beliefs and vote for a racist pig.

William Ayers
Reverend Wright

IMAGINE if John McCain had those fools on his resume! He sat in a pew for 20 years and listened to hatred coming from a black preacher towards white America....and even his preacher has come out and said that Barack has only distanced himself for the election.

A local columnist (Fatima Ali) wrote in the Philadelphia Inquirer (in her endorsement column for Barack) that if he doesn't win, there will be a race war in this country. How sick. The fact that 90+ percent of blacks are voting for this candidate even though he supports an agenda that has resulted in a 35% reduction of the black population in the US PROVES this is nothing more than an issue of race.

Pathetic.

This would not be me, MEDC. I know that you are referring to me because you used MY adjective of "fine" to describe Senator Obama. I did not say that I would vote for him because of his looks nor because he is "black" or African-American. I think you are being PREJUDICED if not ****edit**** to make such a presumption about ME.

I think what you have said HERE is ****edit****

The "cry" of the minority when someone dare speak that they may be ****edit****. Save it...it doesn't fly with me.

I don't really care what "flys" with you.

ditto Mimi...more than you can possibly imagine.

****edit****

Well, I really wanted to comment on this but I don't have time right now and I see that this thread will very likely be closed soon because of personal attacks. I hope not, though. If it's still here later I'll be back.

Charlotte

I'm not going to sit back and allow you to insult me, MEDC.

It is NOT OK for you to continue to be so OFFENSIVE...especially the nerve you have to question my religious beliefs.

Thanks, LaLa, I'll respond a little later. I sure hope this thread doesn't get closed too but it's not lookin' good.

Charlotte

****edit****

I agree.

Charlotte