Before you implement Plan B, prepare. He has financial responsibilities to you and your kids. See a lawyer to find out the particular details in your jurisdiction (they vary from state to state). You can usually get a free 30 minute consultation with most lawyers. Book some appointments with a few different ones - it will give you enough time to ask all your questions, as well as give you an idea who to hire in case you need to go further. You want to get all this stuff in order first so when you go dark, you can stay dark until the conditions are met.

I'll post a call for Plan B help for you to direct others to your thread.

Trying To Let It Go-

Please please please keep in mind that this particular forum is associated with the Harleys plan, as outlined in the book, Surviving An Affair.

You clearly have a wonderful heart, and the best of intentions, but your advice does not always mirror that of the Harleys plan.

ALL BS's who come here are absolutely convinced that Plan B would never work for them, becuase their WH would be happy with that plan, and would use that as an opportunity to move on with the OW. All BS's fear that very thing. But very,very few A's will last, and plan B serves a very useful purpose.

Absolutely typical. Very few WH's actaully say that they want the M back.

You see,they have spent the past few weeks (or months) convincing themselves that the M is "over". That you don't really love them anyway. That they will leave, and things will be hard for a little while, but eventually everyone will be better off. so it is shocking to them when it doesn't quite work out that way.

and when you think about it - if he were saying to you "I really do want the M, but I am still going to screw around and cause all of this pain, and eventaully I will come back, and I expect you to take me back. Doesn't that sound ridiculous?

But in his mind, right now, he doesn't want the M. He wants this pie in the sky idea of how this OW is going to forever make him feel young, lovey dovey, happy happy, all the time. She will always want the same things he wants, and never make any demands of him. but reality soon sets in, and he starts to see that she will make demands of him, like any other woman would. She is not the perfect woman who wants everything he wants, all the time.
Eventually he starts to see that his new R is a lot of work, just like his M was. But at least in his M he had some respect. His friends and family would support him. In his adulterous R, he has no respect. The new R is even more work than the old one ever was. And he starts to see that he has made a huge mistake.

I hate to tell you this, but your WH is really no different from any of the others here

I have more to say about plan B later, but for now, I want to point out that the 2 weeks he was home was not the only plan A. Everything you do right now is part of plan A- even though he lives with OW. You are preparing for plan B right now, so you want to make sure that the last memory he will have of you, is the memory of a loving, caring W.

PS - have you read SAA yet?

Reading it right now just bought it yesterday. Also read, Dr. Dobson's Love must be tough and Michelle Weiner-Davis Divorce Busters. All similar in many ways. But the plan A and Plan B is the part that's different. The other books are from the mindset of saving the marriage as well.

I do realize that this forum is for the Harleys plan. But I don't think that means I have to agree with every aspect of it. I think Plan A is great, in fact I try to live my daily life in a sort of Plan A mode. I try to be my best and that has played a big role in the recovery of my marriage.

That being said I do not agree with Plan B in all cases. I think many people go into Plan B at the wrong time and do not do it correctly. I believe that in my case Plan B would have ended my marriage. My H had already filed for divorce and I am pretty sure I would be divorced at this moment and have moved on with my life.

Also I am getting a bit tired of hearing over and over on here that most A's end. That is not true. My mother has been married for 20 years to a man that was married and living with his wife when they began dating. I just found out one of my very best friends who has been married for 15 years moved right out of her now xH's house and into her current husbands house. So it is hard for me to believe that most A's end when I know of 2 affairages in my own personal life.

I am not trying to argue so please do not see this post that way. I am feeling a bit deffensive at the moment so my guess is that will come through in what I am writing. It is not meant to be arguementative, it is just how I feel.

Great thing is I respect everyone's opinions and advice. I'm still very new to all of it and taking it all information I can an reading all I can. I'm trying to inform my self as much as possible.

We all feel defensive at times so don't worry. I think everyone's heart here is to offer of themselves their experiences and time to hopefully help someone else right at the beginning of a road they have been on or are off of. Please feel free to come chime in anytime.

We are all hurting and need each others support.

I've read 3 books(Divorce Busting by Michelle Weiner-Davis, Dr. james Dobson Love Must Be Tough and this book I am currently reading SAA by Willard Harley) and trying to decided on whats best for me, they are all very similar in many ways-about standing strong and not appeasing the betraying spouse. I'm just weighing out all the books and everyone's life experiences. It's really hard to decide what way to go.

TryingToLetItGo

I was really hoping to respond to you on your own thread, and not thread jack on this one. But I have just spent about an hour looking through your posts and it looks like yoru thread is buried in this past spring.
so forigve me for this thread jack - but:


Plan B is not always necessary, in all cases! We would all agree here. sometimes an A ends during the plan A phase, so plan B is not needed. So you and I agree here.


I am sorry - but most A's do end. Look at your own WH!! I see that you know of 2 A's that have not yet ended, but you also know of at least one that has. If we want to go to a differnt thread, I can share several of my own personal exepreince of A's that ended. My own WxH - his lasted about 6 months. A close friend - her WH left for about 1 year. One of my co-workers left her 1st H 8 years ago to marry her A partner, and she just now divorced that A partner.(that 8 year M was miserable for her and she has admitted to me that she should never have left her 1st H, it was the worst mistake of her life) Most A's will end, but many times we do not hear about those. You may have a friend right now who had an A years ago, but it ended quietly, so she never told anyone. Many times, they end quietly, and no one hears about it.

but the really important thing here, is that his thread belongs to a poster who is looking for support, and hope. When you say things like:


Do you think that is helpful to her? This poster has a WH who is still active in his A, and you are telling her that most A's do not end. What are you trying to say to her: go ahead and D him because his A will not end anyway?? Do you see what I am trying to say to you? This sort of comment would be perfectly fine on your own thread. You could vent like that, and people can help you. But I don't think you should say stuff like this to someone else.

Finally, you expressed concerns about people getting into plan B, but they don't "do it right". I agree with you 100% there as well! IF someone is going to do plan B, it has to be done right, or not at all. That is what I would like to share on this thread, but I fear that your posts are sabotaging any effort to lend support here.

I would love to post to you on your own thread - and I promise not to attack you!!!
What is the title of your thread???

Hey feel free to refer me to the other stories of others where the affair's ended. I'm sure everyone here would love to read it.

this board is full of them.
some of the posters who come to mind:
Mimi
Mr and Mrs Wondering
Bobpure
Notso
Melodylane
Pepperband
Delean De
Believer
Tarnsy

(I am probably not spelling all of these right!!!)

the story of how each A ended, is different in case.
In the case of Believer, her WH's A ended after about 2 years. But by then, too much damage was done, and she followed through with the D.

Most of the posters above are in a recovered M. but sometimes, like in my case, when the A does end, there is just nothing left to build on. My WxH was always selfish, had a huge problem with porn, and had developed quite a potty mouth. When he left to live with OW, all of those traits got even worse. I eventually reached the point where I had a new life, free of his rubbish, and did not need to get back into that mess.

A's do end. But that does not always mean that the M will recover.

T2L - Your WH's A will likely end all by itself, without any help from you. If you just go on about your daily life, he and OW will self detruct all by themsleves. But what will happen then? Will he want to start the recovery process? Even more important, will YOU wnat to recover with him?

As you are reading the book SAA, are you starting to recognize how you may have contributed to an atmosphere, in your M, that left your WH vulnerable to an A? I am not saying that you have ANY fault in his choice to have an A. But, do you see where you may not have met all of his EN, and he became vulnerable to an A?

If so, plan A gives you the chance to show him that you can meet all of those needs. For instance, if admiration is a big need of his, right now you could find ways to tell him how much you admire him. Even if he doesn't live with you - when you talk to him on the phone you could casually mention that you have always appreciated what a great provider he has been for the family over the years.

You start by recognizing possible needs that you could meet, you do your best to show him you are willing to meet those needs, and then you plan a day to go into Plan B to:
1. Protect your own love bank! Right now, you are slowly losing your love for him. That is how a BW eventually gives up on the M , even if the the A does someday end. if you lose your love - you won't want him back.

2. Plan B forces him to rely fully on the OW. You would no longer meet any of his needs, so the OW has to fill in full time. The problem is, she doesn't have the history you have with him. She has not built a family with him like you have. And the A relationship was supposed to be all fun, for both of them. She isn't used to working hard at a relationship. She wants him to be the fun guy - not the moody guy.

But you have to set Plan B up properly - his last memory of you needs to be a good one. You have to write the proper Plan B letter that reminds him of your love - and outlines a plan to recover, WHEN he finally cuts all contact with the OW.

Thank you for the names.

Yes I can see where I could have met some needs better. I am hoping I still love him too. The longer it goes seems like the door gets just a little smaller.

We hardly talk at all. If we do it's via email. He lashes out but I keep it always on the high road. I don't want to stoop to his level.
Otherwise no phone calls at all. Email maybe 1 say a week confirming financials and I always say thank you for the provision for that week. I can't really meet to many needs because of this. I have tried to call, to ask him to stop the angry emails but he doesn't answer my calls, so there really isn't any contact.
But still reading on in the book, half way through.

I looked at a few of the names you gave me. How do I communicate with them without hijacking another thread? Sorry new to all this. Really would love to communicate with believer.

Thanks again for all your help.

Kids have been really upset with H. They go back and forth about talking or visiting with him. For a month they didn't talk to him, then for a month they did(and they really didn't enjoy the visits because he's not the person we all knew) and now were back again where they really don't want to talk to him. So I tell him hey even if they don't want to talk still call anyways. So you wanna hear his lame message. I couldn't even play it for my son its scary. He says, "Hi its dad, I'm calling to talk to ****, I'm sure he's led to believe I want to kill him, so call me back".

WHAT?!?!?!?!?! Ok I know he blames me for the kids reactions-as if our kids don't have their own thoughts about all this I mean my daughter is 17 and my son will be 10 in 4 weeks. Just a really bad message using your kids name and kill in the same breath-ewe. Insane in the membrane! None the less I'm saving that message just in case I ever need it.

just out of curiosity - does that message seem TOTALLY unusual for him? Has he ever shown that sort of tendancy before?

He was never like this before the A. Few anger issues here and there. But now he is not even the same man. Yes it looks like him and sounds like him but when you see him-it's hard to explain. There's just darkness in his eyes that was not there before....but yet he says he's happy now. idk

I know exactly what you mean. when my WxH was in the middle of his A, I did not see him for about a month. When I did see him, I was horrified at his appearance! Rumpled clothes - looked like he had slept in them for a week. dark circles under his eyes, unshaved. I was so shocked I even said "are you Ok??" and he replied "I'm fine, just a little tired" and then he walked away. Clearly irritated that I had even asked.

At the time, I made up all sorts of stories in my mind. I figured that OW had kept him up all night doing heaven-only-knows-what. Or they had been out partying and having a good old time while I was at home, miserable.

Later, when his A had truly ended, and the alien had left his body, I found out that he actaully had been up all night fighting with her. They had one of those overly dramatic (he called it intimate) relationships where every little arguement turned into a huge, all night screaming match.

what I realize now - is that we, as the BW, tend to assume that our WH is happy-go-lucky, loving their new life, while we suffer. and then they call, or email, to throw more salt in our wound. In reality - their "new" life is usually a miserable mess, and they continue to lash out at everyone else around them. their life is a mess - it must be someones fault.

that ugly message he left - typical. But if this is truly out of character for him, then I hope you are able to cling to the knowledge that this is a good man, who is currently very sick.
You are probably going to need to use Plan B, very soon, to protect yourself from hearing stuff like that. Because he will most likely return to being a good man, someday (I sure hope so anyway). But you don't need to have anymore of those bad memories clouding your mind. It would be better to let him go off, and share his harsh words wtih someone else.

Thanks so much for that. At times I forget about the good man he used to be. I used to sow seeds into his heart by telling him all these things over the life of our marriage. I am hoping to reap them.
I too saw the same thing in him. He had visited the kids in July and he looked like he was in dirty clothes, unshaven and he even looked older. Daughter asked him where he was living he said in his car.
We think that he actually was in July as the OW moved to another city and he no longer wanted to be at his mothers so he lived in his car to be near her-hard to even think of. But then in August he moved in with her-even harder.

I'm not sure if I mentioned that we're associate pastors-guess no one is immune.

My kids go back and forth about having contact or even visits-they are mad. HE says that I am a bad mom because I don't force them to visit him I instead ask them if they would like to. What do you think? Should I force them?

I have therapy coming up for my son 9, as he is having the hardest time. He is biting his nails really bad, he has been sleeping in my bed(asked the dr he said under the circumstances it's ok -and we put a big pillow in the middle, more so he doesn't clobber me all night)he is nervous and angry.

Last Friday he tried to stay the night at a friends but he had me come pick him up at almost 10. He said his tummy hurt but I told him he didn't need to lie. He said mom I love you and begins to cry. I say what's wrong son and he says mom I feel like since dad's left i have to protect you. Does dad know what he has done to me? i'm a big boy and I'm afraid, i'm nervous, i don't like the night time i'm biting my nails and i cant stop, why mom why is he with her? I calm him and tell him the God watches over me and he can't do a better job than that so just be a little boy. I tell him that I cant tell dad because dad doesn't want to know.(My H a few weeks earlier emailed me and asked how are the kids and don't include all the other stuff-what does he want me to say?? They are great?)
Anyways should I force them? I ask my son almost daily if wants to call, email or visit his dad. He gets upset and says no.

save a copy of all phone calls message, log times and brief summery of phone calls, keep all emails, log all txt messages/IM messages.

Either they'll help you with lawyers later on, or to show him when he comes back and he is not believing what you say he said/did during his A.

No not force, encourage. But if your son chosses to not have contact with WH, that will have to be a consequence WH will ahve to deal with

Trying2live I am so sorry that you're going through this...

I have 2 boys 15 and 18.My 15yr old was very upset when his dad left.He slept in my bed for nearly a year and one day he just stopped.Both my boys saw a child pyschologist and she said DS15 had typical regressive behaviour..almost clinging to the parent that was left.DS15 told me "please don't leave me like dad did"
I personally don't think you should put a pillow between the 2 of you either,don't let him feel theres a barrier between you.He also stopped sleeping out at friends for a while.
Once the school phoned me to say DS15 wanted to come home.The teacher was worried that he was been bullied cos DS15 just said he wanted to be with his mom.I had to explain to the teacher our position at home.So you can see even at 15 my big strapping son felt terribley vunerable and alone.Before his dad left he was never clingy or a 'mommys boy"if you know what I mean.

I feel you should just bare with him as sometimes they don't know how to deal with their emotions or how to verbalise them.
Don't try to explain to your WH the effect this is having on your kids cos he will only twist it to be your fault as they never see anything they do as wrong..he might even get you to believe maybe you are to blame!!!crazy I know..my WH did that to me.

Its up to you now to be that ROCK for your children....I know its hard when you are falling apart..but as people told me..IT DOES GET EASIER!!
Your kids will respect and admire you for all you are doing at the moment..I see it in my kids,20 months done the line
Hang in there....

I just read back on your last few posts and saw that you wanted to chat to Believer....

She has been helping me through my ordeal and is a true BLESSING...

She has many words of wisdom to share......