Iam, I know what you’re saying… With God’s grace my experiences as a child did not lead to promiscuousness and self abuse, but I did act self destructive in some other ways. I think it’s very wonderful and mature that your W never used her childhood trauma as an excuse for the promiscuousness and other wrong choices she made in life.

God bless and may you and your W continue to grow closer together!

Hello?

Dude?

You out there?

I can only think of one...and it is my understanding that has been resolved. I would slam anyone that did the same thing....frankly, in cases like this, I sincerely wish for the situation to literally show up at the offenders front door one day.

I would have absolutely no problem with that. As I’ve said previously, I did what I thought was the best back then (to put my M and BH first) and what I did was also in line with Dr Harley’s advice on my specific situation e.g. to not do something that was against the agreement of my H (informing the OMW).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=138488&Number=1762807#Post1762807

If that should ever happen, I will have no problem informing her that the only “crime” I ever committed was unwittingly developed feelings for her H...feelings I never acted on and only admitted to her H during one time (the one and only time I crossed boundaries into EA where after I immediately informed my H and ended contact with her H). Frankly, I feel proud about the fact that I have restrained myself from ever acting on my feelings in spite of very strong temptations to do so, opportunities I had to do so and subtle attempts from XOM to lure me into something more…my integrity and morals prevented me from ever doing that…and I will have no problem informing her about that as well should the opportunity ever arise.

Did the RA really make it "tolerable"???? You are paying the price for it now, and you are screaming like a stuck pig. I don't see anything that remotely resembles "tolerable" in any of your posts, Dude.




Good question. WTF are you doing? Someone asked a very good question - do you want to save this marriage? Or are you still just in this revenge mode? Are you still just so angry that you just want to get even - although logically, you can NEVER GET EVEN. You need to understand that in this situation, no matter what you do, you will never be "even". The sooner you wrap your head around that concept, the faster you will be on the track to personal recovery. And yes, you need to put your first foot on that road, because whether or not you choose to recover the marriage, you will STILL have to recover your SELF.
So I ask you again, WTF are you doing?



This crap follows you - and will follow you - right into your next relationship, even if you DON'T stay with this wife.

There is NO fast way to recover, Dude. Nope. Here's the deal. If you choose to stay with your wife, you work through the problems with her there. You get answers about her affair, and you figure out what the problems were in your relationship with her. She is there with you, and you are able to talk to her about what YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEMS ARE IN THE RELATIONSHIP.

See, you get to understand what role you played in screwing up this marriage to begin with. You get to have a person there to help you understand how that marriage got to be in the state it was in, why it was vulnerable to an affair, how you can improve your relationship, how you can improve yourself as a marital partner. You have a real person there, working with you as part of a team, helping you put the pieces together. Someone there who loves you, who can take you through this very difficult process with compassion and dignity. Someone who wants the end goal to be a great marriage, a long-lasting relationship, with love and happiness together.

And you also get to tell that person exactly what you want from her. What you need to fulfill your fantasy marriage, your needs, your emotional life, your recreational life. You get to talk with her about your views on the state of the marriage, and work with her as part of the team, getting it to the point that you want it to be at, too.


Read this website, understand what the goals of "marriage building" are. If you understand those goals, you will understand this - that working together, your ideal marriage can be WITH this wife.


Or, you could "walk", like you say. Sure. Then, you recover on the same timeline. It is not any faster, Dude. It is what it is. Only on your own, you are then divorced, and unless you continue to work on the concepts of recovery, you will absolutely carry the exact same problems you had in this marriage

right into your next relationship.


See, the problem in this marriage is not what you think it is.

Right now, you think it is the affair your wife had.

The affair your wife had is PART of the problem, but it is more a SYMPTOM of other problems. The affair your wife had should tell you that the state of your marriage just prior to her beginning that affair

was NOT good.


And that you need to take a step back and evaluate WHY that is. What your role in that marriage was. What DUDE's responsibilities were in that marriage, what DUDE did, or did not do, and why the marriage was failing.

Your wife's decision to have an affair is 100% hers, and your revenge affair - that's on YOU, and it was STUPID.

But your marriage was NOT GOOD before all this.


And unless you do some recovery work - whether inside your marriage or outside of it

and take the time to do it

you will be right back here for the same reason you are here right now.

With this wife
or the next.

You cannot fast track it.
You cannot just sweep it under the rug.

And you cannot justify your idiotic behavior by saying, "She did it first." You have done what you have done. Now, you must do what you must do to fix the mess you made.

Man up.


SB

The logical reason would be because this forum is called "Marriage Builders", not "FO Builders".

Maybee he cant hear me.

DUDE!!

Do you want to save your mairrage or do you just want to punish your wife?

It, and the other 9 commandments, are banned from government facilities all over the country because of a little thing called separation of church and state. The United States has never officially been a "Christian nation". To proclaim it so would be against one of the very principals this country was founded on...that people could practice any religion they wish, without the government playing favorites.

Adultery was considered immoral LONG before the 10 commandments were "written", and cheating pre-dates Christianity.




I don't try to sway anyone's religious beliefs, ever. I say what I think without using kid gloves on the religious. Boy, they hate that. For a group of people who are SO SURE about their faith, they sure get worked up when anyone expresses an opposing viewpoint. Maybe they aren't so sure about their beliefs, after all.

Calling me a mad hatter? At least I'm not making excuses for waywards, or minimizing what they've done.


Neither have I.


They have a moral compass. If they didn't, there would be no need for compartmentalization, justification, or re-writing marital history. There would be no need for them to attempt to artificially skew their moral compass in the right direction.

So, THEY WEREN'T THINKING, huh? Whew! You had me worried for a minute. See, I thought they were thinking when they figured out where to have sex...like a hotel or an office...so they wouldn't be caught. I thought they were thinking when a WH scrubs his penis extra carefully in a hotel shower during his lunch hour, so his wife won't smell anything if she goes down there that evening. I assumed that when a WW brushed her teeth to get rid of the taste of ejaculate, she was thinking and planning to avoid getting caught.

I'm sure glad I was wrong!

Those kooky waywards and their wacky antics...it's amazing that they ever get away with it, considering that they never plan a thing. :RollieEyes:



They think about, and know exactly what the fallout will or could be. People are murdered over adultery. Divorces occur. STDs occur. Suicides occur. They know this, because they do not live in caves, and own a television or a radio.

They know all of this and THEY DON'T CARE.

Big difference. You say they didn't think about those things, but they did. They consciously thought about them, and decided it was worth the risk.

Why are BSs constantly trying to make their WS less of a monster? Try seeing them for what they really were, THEN try and reconcile. Stop minimizing what they did, using "fog", "slopes", or other assorted phony crutches.



YOU sound like a wayward, too, but I don't think you are.

Dude and Introvert's WIVES gace them the license to mess around. Whether they would've eventually cheated, anyway, I have no idea.


Wrong. Those co-workers that you notice? They've already thought about having sex with the other person, LONG before that first lunch. Especially the men. If a man finds a woman attractive enough to have sex with her, he thought about it 5 seconds after meeting her for the first time.

Being a guy, I can verify that fact. I doubt women are much different. Maybe it takes them 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds.

A person without healthy boundaries thinks about sex, too, and they are aware when they see someone they'd like to have sex with...so when a person they'd like to have sex with starts flirting with them, they notice as quickly as someone with solid boundaries.

The difference is how they react to the flirting.

"People who step right into sex call it rape"?

That's a fairly prudish and very previous-generation way of thinking. People have one-night stands with strangers, and worse, all the time.


You've done nothing but make excuses for waywards and minimize what they've done throughout this entire thread, by making the ridiculous argument that they were oblivious to what was happening, and didn't really want to hurt the BS.

I've already got my WS-issued license, as do all BSs. Most of us choose not to use it, some will. That's our prerogative in my opinion.



If there is a difference at all, it is that the original affair is premeditated, while the RA is much more similar to a "crime of passion".

That is said often here, but it is completely wrong, IMO.

The idea that revenge can't "even the score" is wrong, and always has been.

Maybe we disagree about what "getting even" is, exactly.

To me, "getting even" has nothing to do with making myself feel better. I understand that seeking revenge will not undo the injustices thrust upon me. It will not erase the awful memories that will follow me to my grave. It will not make me feel more like a man.

What is the point of getting even, then?

Getting even is about justice. It is about taking the pain you've received and turing it around on the perpetrator. The fact that there is almost no legal recourse for adultery in this country is an outrage...something that should get the religious right in this country nearly as riled up as abortion, but doesn't.

Mainly because they cheat at the same atrocious rate as anyone else.

Without that legal recourse, all you can do in courtroom is divorce. Often, this hurts the BS far more than the WS. Justice is still not served.

If a BS isn't willing to risk going to prison, and there is no legal recourse, what are his/her options?

Suck it up and turn the other cheek, like Jesus would, or let them feel your wrath, like the Old Testament God would.

I didn't have an RA, but I did go out of my way to make OM's life as miserable as I could, legally. The day after d-day, I called his wife. Informing her of the affair for her sake wasn't even a factor. I was ONLY calling to hurt him. I remained civil to her to help ensure she'd believe me, but all I was doing was striking back at OM. I even lied to her and told her "I thought she should know".

I couldn't have cared less. She was a tool I used to hurt OM. I am so glad I did. To this day, I use the knowledge that I ratted him out to his wife to make me feel better on a bad day.

I also told OM that if there was a single instance of contact, including a nod in a crowded mall, I would distribute flyers at his kids' Catholic school, detailing the affair. Names, places, sexual acts. I wasn't kidding then, and I'm not now. I WILL hurt his children if he contacts my wife OR if she contacts him.

If it ever happens, it WILL make me feel better.

Just like having a revenge affair, had I chose to go that route, would make me feel better about being betrayed.

My idea of a revenge affair is hardly revenge, anyway, because I would not intend for my W to find out about it.

Doing it in secret is just to get your jollies, just so you know that "you can, too".

Taking pictures of me and my AP in bed and sending them to my wife, along with divorce papers...now THAT is a revenge affair.

Legal recourse? And pray tell what would that entail?
Nothing like FORCING someone to stay faithful to you with the fear of jail or fines. Yeah that would health. Or would you just go after the OP with jail or fines. Oh wait that does not work since both people in the A are OP, so they both get fined and go to jail. Tell me how that would not hurt the BS?

It is called free choice and if you make your marriage somewhere your spouse WANTS to be you don't have to worry about cheating now do you?

You would bring someones kids into this? Wow that is pretty low, talk about a way to push someone over the edge to the point where they would be willing to break the law.

***************************************************************

I will tell you ever since this thread has started I have been amazed. Nothing like BS's justifying how they have the right to be a WS.

Hmm... my FWW told me that all through her A there was never any thought of leaving our M. It looks like she simply wanted more than what she was getting out of it at the time.

Not to T/J.....but....um....are you really giving advice, hu? Or is this hu's wife?

Never said anything about leaving the marriage. I never thought about leaving mine (until towards the end). But my marriage like most marriages for a WS is/was missing something that allows us to justify cheating.

RA affair does NOTHING to fix those missing things. It just adds to the mess that is already in existence.

Advice??? No it's called an opinion on the subject.

Krazy,

If it were possible, I'd buy you a beer (or three) for the post above.

Your honest responses and descriptions are refreshing, although will undoubtedly be misunderstood by many who can't grasp the type and depth of strength you have displayed throughout.

Kudos to you, SIR!!!

I believe that proof of infidelity should have a profound effect on any divorce settlement resulting from said infidelity. It should automatically negate any sort of alimony, and should seriously impact child custody and division of assets.

"Infidelity" should be an offical cause for divorce in all 50 states. No-fault divorce should not exist. When the divorce is final, the cause has been determined to be infidelity, and the betrayed spouse voluntarily signs a release.......

I'd be in favor an official, government-operated "infidelity registry", as opposed to the privately-run websites out there right now. Given the number of people who are negatively impacted by infidelity, from the betrayed spouse, to their kids, to their employer and their health insurance provider, I think a registry is justified. If your new girlfriend (for example) was a 3-time WW from 3 marriages, would YOU want to get seriously involved with her? Probably not. Rather than depend on the chronic liar for an honest version of her past, there should be a registry.



See? It possible to have legal recourse for infidelity without having two wayward spouses sitting in jail. The punishment isn't so awful that anyone would be "forced to stay faithful". After all, idiots will be idiots, you know.

Hitting them in the pocketbook, reducing or eliminating child custody, and informing the general public of their actions while helping to avoid future adulterous marriages is a pretty good start.

Those who shout about the "sanctity of marriage" from their soapbox should be in support of such ideas.

I disagree with the "official registry" since we can't even get sex offenders to register all the time. Do we really want the government involved with tracking this type of activity. Plus I would not want to be on a list like that.

I disagree (some what) with the no-fault idea. Marriage is a secular legal contract and some people just want out. No reason to restrict or force people to stay together that don't want to. But if you want the settlement bonus prove the infidelity.

I do agree it should play a part in any settlement proceedings. But you do realize that if that type of law was in effect NO WS would EVER confess. Since it could directly impact them. So the burden of proof would need to be even higher then it is today.

But overall a very good answer. Can tell you have thought about this.

I agree. And might I add that in most places in North America (I say North America, because I'm Canadian)...anyway, in most places, religious groups get the book thrown at them for poligamy, but these same places have no-fault divorce. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Thanks a million!

I never really saw my actions as a display of strength, though. I've just been doing what I have to to get by.

I always felt that if I was truly strong, I'd kick her to the curb yesterday.

That's how I have felt too.

After some encouragement from members here though...I've started to turn the corner and now realize that I'm stronger for trying to recover. Recovery is after all harder than plan FU.