Thanks for the responses.

First off, I do know that my FWW has not "earned" the F as defined here. I just don't know what acronym to use since she is not an "active" WW.


I agree. Its just this seems to come and go with me.


I understand.


My FWW is repentent about her A. But she basically refuses to "buy" into any of the MB concepts.


I do understand your point here. I just don't think she will grow into a better person if I leave her.


Sorry.


I don't know if it's a good thing or bad, but I remember most everything. Especially posts that struck me as worth further consideration.

It's probably all a moot point anyway. I had one of my "blow-ups" yesterday and got what I expected. I tell her I won't go on like this and I want a divorce. She sits there silently for a while and then says she doesn't want to divorce, but won't quit her job. She says there's no point in her quiting her job, since our M won't make it anyway because she can't do what it takes to make me happy. More silence. Then says she is quitting her job today. I get the "sad" treatment all day.

I should be getting notified soon that she's decided she won't quit her job.

How much time has she invested in evaluating it and what specifically doesn't she buy into or what about it does she fight against?


It is very good to see that you are being firm with her that you will not sacrifice your happiness in order to make her happy.



Again, not knowing the answer to the above, the agreeing to the MB concepts and working them will make you happy. Does she recognize that?

Well you don't KNOW this rprynne, and your saying it smacks of total disrespect for her anyway - understandable, but still, why would you want to be with someone who can't be a better person? It's not like she is becoming one with you there yanno? You can't make her, HOW. EV. ER. you CAN enforce your own boundaries, and that just might allow her to do what she needs to do to become what you'd like to see her become...It might not, but it's not something you can control...You can only control YOU...You need to take care of YOU...



Well you are probably right that that is what will happen...Now, what you NEED to do is respond differently this time...Stop making THREATS and actually go through with ENFORCING YOUR BOUNDARY. When she notifies you that she has decided to not quit her job, thereby telling you that she isn't interested in investing in the marriage in the way that you need her to, then you draw the line [file divorce aka enforce your boundary]...NOT as punishment to her, but as protection of YOU...Start moving the process along and give her the freedom to choose whether or not she will stop violating your boundaries...If she isn't willing to stop doing that, then you shouldn't be willing to stay...Plain and simple...Right now, she doesn't respect you in part because she KNOWS that you won't enforce your boundaries...

As we've told you before rprynne, love and respect are inextricably bound for women...

Mrs. W

P.S. If you haven't read it, go out and get Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend

She has not invested a lot of time evaluating it. She does not say she does not buy into it, but based on her actions, I would say she doesn't buy into any of it. It's in my history, but basically we started MC with the Harley's and did this for 2-3 months and the whole time she was still in contact with OM.

If you ask what she fights against, I would say two main things. She does not buy into the whole idea that "love is more of a verb" or "feelings follow actions." Second, she believes she is incapable of meeting EN's.


No.


I agree that I don't know for certain, it's just what I think. It is not meant to be disrespectful. I say it because everytime we get to a sticking point, she just sort of throws a switch, and goes right back into a position of saying things aren't due to her choices, but just the way she is.


She can be a better person.


I'm trying Mrs. W. I just keep getting sucked back in. We have one of these discussions, she says she agrees with everything, makes some changes and promises to make all of them, and then a week goes by, then a month, then 2 months, and we end up right back here. I'm not doing it again.

I wasn't an ideal husband, and we made some mistakes, and I was prepared for this to take a long time and have ups and downs, but its just become tragically comical.

Right, but she is not choosing to, and I think that your inaction enables her not to have to...


"just keep getting sucked back in" or are CHOOSING to allow yourself to be sucked back in? I know you know the definition of insanity rprynne, now cut that out!


rprynne, you are far too nice and smart a man to keep living like this, I, for one, would love to see you take charge of your life, stand up and command the respect that you most certainly deserve...Respect yourself enough to do this! And who knows? She just might follow your lead...If not, you've still got those "two difficult cats"! (sorry, that just cracks me up every single time I read it! )

Mrs. W

Is it her beliefs, her habits, or your lack of boundaries that causes it to go back?

If you truly mean your not doing it again, I would expect if lack of boundaries was the issue it won't be anymore.

Clearly, I am choosing it. I have become Charlie Brown and my FWW is Lucy holding that dang football.


I don't know. It really just comes down to her job. I am happy with her when she is home. She meets my EN's. But the more she does that, the more it hurts when she leaves. And when she is gone, I try to compensate for that pain by asking more of her or saying quit your job. At that point, she decides she just can't make me happy (she decides she is not a good wife) and she quits.


I know it cracks you up, I just don't know any other way to describe them. Perhaps you can meet them one day.


I truly mean it. She's coming home this weekend and its going to be hard on me, but I'm not budging on this job anymore. I'll deal with the self-esteem issues over losing my wife to a job later.

This is the movie GROUNDHOG DAY!!!

Instead of me retyping the same thing again, can you just go back and read my old posts? We have covered this ground a hundred times already.

Next time Mr. W and I go out of town we will drop our now 28lb. ragdoll cat at your house and let him get your two in line!

Mrs. W

get a real pet, people!! :RollieEyes:

100? Don't bust my chops. I'm not stupid, I'm complicated


I would love that.


What? Like a dog. My response is this:

So you prefer an emotionally shallow animal? See, Mel, if you yell at a dog, his ears will go down and his tail will cover his genitals even if he's done nothing wrong. It's very easy to break a dog. But cats make you work for their affection. Cats don't sell out like dogs do.

So do RATS and other assorted VERMIN, you silly man!

Mel just can't handle a pet with a bigger streak of entitlement than her own!

Mrs. W

A CAT is a VARMINT, you silly people!! :RollieEyes:

my LAST CAT!

Don't listen to her rprynne! That is a doctored pic! I have proof that Mel's cat is alive, well and rockin' out! ~~~> MEL'S PRETTY KITTY!

Mrs. W

MrsW, I sent dat kitteh to BASEMENT KAT!

I was listening to a radio call in show on my way home yesterday, and the subject turned to the caller's wife's infidelity, and the host made an observation that I couldn't agree with more:

(paraphrasing)


"Women are master manipulators in interpersonal relationships. They are very good at emasculating their husbands, and then using that as an excuse to throw them away."

I thought it was very pertinent to this thread, and many other active threads here at MB.

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that men who care about their wives well-being have been emasulated by their wives?

I guess I don't have the same cynical view of women that you do.

I think the quote you referenced represents a small percentage of woman. If they are all the master manipulators that is described, then none are worth marrying, since they will only be lying in wait to eventually execute their grand plan of emasculating their mate. (even the ones who appear to have recovered their M). This is a bitter view.

Further, I think if a man maintains this view of women, he will by default, have a sub standard M, since he will naturally put up a barrier to intimacy in order to protect his masculinity.

I imagine you will say that all woman are not like this, but you seem to presume that once a woman has an A, and does not comply with all of the BH's demands, that is sufficient evidence to conclude that they are these "master manipulators". I only say that because you rarely seem to advise any other action other than leave them, regardless, of what a particular BH is struggling with.

Anyway, you should be a good one to answer my question, since you tend to remind each BH to throw away their wives. I'm not argueing with your logic, because clearly I have a different view of the world than you do.

I'm asking how do you instantly get to the point of just not caring about them.

rprynne,

You aren't going to like my responses, but you asked for them.

Once again you are purposefully dodging the real issues you are facing by trying to twist or exaggerate the meaning of what is posted to you to serve your own purposes of DOING NOTHING to improve your situation.

Never have I said or implied that ALL women are like this, but there are dozens of representative WW's (either directly posting or through their BH's discriptions of them) active here on MB at this time, and YOURS is one of them.

It is foolish to not even acknowledge that SOME women marry men with the intent to mold them into something they aren't. However, when they achieve their objective, the man they fell in love with doesn't exist any longer, and they throw them away, either directly by divorcing them, or worse, by disrespecting them by betraying them and then convincing their BH's that its all their fault.

ALL WW's lie, but its the "whipped" BH's that believe those lies and accept blame for their own betrayal. They then continue and compound their "whipped" behavior by being AFRAID to confront their WW's on their deception and establish and protect reasonable boundaries.

It is true, that I feel that D is the proper response to an A, and apparently so does Dr. Harley from my readings on this site, but that doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions to that rule. It just means that its up to the WW to show that they are indeed worthy of that exception.

It is NOT true, however, that I advise ALL BH's to D their WW's, and it is ridiculous to suggest that. That may be what it seems like to you, since you refuse to stand up for yourself to your WW. My purpose is to get "whipped" BH's to stand up for themselves in order to have a better future, OR they may as well D rather than remain in an manipulative relationship.

Also, that BS about ... "I'm asking how do you instantly get to the point of just not caring about them." ... just doesn't fly. How long has this been going on for you??? That's a pretty long "instant" if you ask me.

Why is it that you can get upset and take up for yourself to an anonymous internet poster, who has only suggested that you are "whipped", but say nothing to your WW, who has actually inflicted the "whipping" PLUS betrayed you in the process???

I've really done NOTHING to you, but SHE surely has!!!

I think you misjudge me. It's not whether I like them or not, I still consider them, just sometimes I don't agree with them.


I don't think you know my wife well enough to make that conclusion.


You've done this a couple of times when I ask you a direct question. I think you view my questions as adversarial, when they are not. You implied that I was saying what I have gone through was an instant, and I am fully aware of how long I have been going through this. But I was asking how you came to the conclusion that you do not care what happens to your wife and you did do that in an instant. At least that is what you have posted. I asked you how did you do that? If you feel you did not do that, then okay. If you don't want to answer, then okay.


I am not upset at all, at least not at you. I commented on your post because I thought it was an unfair characterization of women, and I do feel that if men look at their wives that way it will cause problems.