His coworker is making me nervous. But then, he talks openly about it. So I don't know.

It sounds like he's going through some changes of his own, maybe new realizations or new opinions...Maybe he's balling all of his hopes and dreams into a 'realization' that it's because of you he's not getting what he wants, i.e. demonizing you.

I would definitely try to get the Harleys.

That said, your talk about your kids, and it's been fairly common in your comments, intrigues me. What do you think about how you interact with them? What do other people think? What do your kids think? That's how I would determine if he's just being overboard and self-absorbed, or has a valid concern.

Wow ears, it sounds like you are going through a lot of eye-opening experiences all at the same time...

I remember times when I suddenly realized things about myself that I certainly did not like at all. It hurt at first, but eventually I was glad to have foudn out, so that I could work to change.

I know that you have been working on yourself, and changing, a lot. I think your ideas for stepping up the effort is good, like taking your D's to the library and helping them with HW, etc. What do you think about sharing with your H that you feel bad about how you've acted in the past, that you've been working to change, and that you'd like him to let you know the next time he hears you acting in a way he thinks is abusive?

About the lady with the groceries - what do you think about changing it from him doing things for her with you being "jealous", to you being the one to do those things? I dunno, that's added stuff for you to do, but it has you looking like a caring compassionate person instead of an accusing jealous type, and if there's nothing going on between your H and her, then he shouldn't mind.

*hugs*

Cat, everyone who knows me has always told me I'm an awesome mom and ask me for advice. My first degree was in elementary and early childhood education, and I worked from 18 (putting myself through school) to 23 in preschool and elementary school. So I've had a lot of practice with positive reinformcement and redirecting kids in a positive way. In preschool, we worked two to a room, and I learned from a lot of great role models on the job, too.

I did have a problem with sporadic AOs with my kids, when they weren't listening. Those Aos were a big blow to me, because it's really important to me for the kids to feel safe. I have the tools where I don't blow up any more.

The kids have said that I'm too mean, and told H they were afraid of me. We discussed it the three of us, and they don't like when I get angry at all. I've been making an effort to take the girls out one-on-one instead of together, so they get more undivided attention.


Jayne, I hear you, it is important to address his concern. I have apologized to the kids, and when I make a mistake now, I quickly make amends to correct the situation. We've worked on this in MC, too, giving H a plan what to do when he feels I'm too angry with them.

About the coworker with the groceries, if it was a PA, I don't think he would have asked for help with the shopping; just taken her to get what she wanted. Fortunately Ike went south of us. So she won't need extra supplies. And even if it had kept straight on it's path towards us instead of changing direction, I am a compassionate person, but honestly, jayne, I'm not enthusiastic about making myself act on H's concern for this coworker. She has family down here and she said she was okay.

H invited me to out to lunch, and he was calm again. So that pressure is off of me today.

I had a fear that the depression was going to take hold, with H being angry at me for a few weeks almost solid now. I thought through what it would take to get a great attitude before I got home. Really tried to set myself up for success, give myself a lot of encouragement and self-coaching, and reminded myself that I have my progressive boundary enforcements to keep me safe.

I kept singing this song to myself, that I can trust myself to do the kind things for myself and others. No expection of perfection. It's okay if H gets mad, that's his to own, and can't take me down UNLESS I LET IT.

I was so upbeat that my kids made a comment, and I think H noticed, too.

Toby Mac's I'm For You

Tell me where its hurting
Are you burning?
Running just to catch your breath
And going nowhere
It's getting old when you feel like you got nothing left
Well it ain't over 'til it's over
I told you since the day we met
So let me be the voice through all the noise
Whatever I gotta be
I'll be for you

Whatever you need from me
To see you through
Everyone of us has stumbled
Everybody's humbled
We hit the ground and our lives crumble


Whatever I gotta be
I'll be for you
I'm for you
If you never knew
If you never knew
I'm for you
You know it's true

I know the feeling
I know it's real when the drama's all in your face
You see a mountain
I hear a promise it's never more than we can take
Well it ain't over, 'til it's over
We can turn from our mistakes
So let me be the voice through all the noise

Everyone of us will fall
Have our backs against the wall
And everyone shares a need to be loved
You've always been for me
So I will be for you
That's just what it means to love

Also this weekend, H announced that he is travelling every other week through the end of October, 2 weeks this month, 2 weeks next month. I didn't really say much about it, because I am fighting that "what's the use?" feeling. The little that I said, was telling him that I trust that he was planning to be here for my birthday. He wasn't, and got mad, told me how unreasonable I am. Asked me to repeat what he was saying about that making it hard for him to schedule his orthodontist appointment (we have braces). I was having a hard time staying in the moment, kind of spacing out, because I want to find a win-win here, to talk about other options instead of always just this one, and I had a hard time accepting that he did not. I think that's where my depression is coming from, deflecting the attacks, trying not to take it as against me. Anger at myself for not negotiating more.

I am glad that I do have tools. I wish that I had more fight in me, to negotiate for a win-win, but I accept where I am today, and that if I stop fighting my resistance, that it drops away in time.

So here's my email, haven't sent it yet. I have a fear it may make him mad that I'm "questioning" instead of "supporting him." But I'm keeping an open mind.

You know, B, I don't want to fight. I just want to respectfully tell you how I feel about this. I am not comfortable with this amount of work travel every year. I understand that you think that I should be fine with it. I respect your opinion. I don't share it. You always say that it's always an emergency and it's necessary. I believe that if it was a priority to you to be with our family, that it would show in your actions, by finding other options, too.

Edited to add: "I believe that we can resolve this issue in a way that would make us both happy if we choose to work together. I am asking you to work together on this."

{{{{{ ears }}}}}

I like the idea of sending him the email. And I like what you've written. Just a couple minor comments, take them if you want:

I would try to rephrase the next-to-last sentence to avoid the word "always".

The last sentence is probably ok, but I wonder if there's a way to re-word it so you aren't telling him what he's thinking (what his priorities are) and instead saying that when he chooses certain actions, you interpret that as evidence of his priorities... prolly a better way to say it so that you are talking about what you think instead of guessing what he thinks. KWIM?

*hugs*

Thanks for being here, jayne. Yes, after I hit send, I saw the DJ there. Thought I had conquered those sneaky little things! I'm trying to remember to trace them, the DJs, and listen to what they are telling me. There is usually a fear under them, on ethat I can address respectfully instead. So here, the thoughtful request would be to consider my perpective, too. To acknowledge that UA and FC time together is important to me.

Here's my retry:

"B, [sweetie], I don't want to fight. I just want to respectfully tell you how I feel about this, and to make a request of you. [Not control,] you will choose your action. I am not comfortable with this amount of work travel every year. I hear you saying each individual time that it's always an emergency and it's necessary. I understand that you think that I should be fine with it. I respect your opinion. I don't share it.

I am asking you to consider my perspective, too. To acknowledge that time for you and me together, and time with the kids is important to me. That the travel gets in the way of that in a big way.

I believe that we can resolve this issue in a way that would make us both happy if we choose to work together. I am asking you to work together [to find solutions we are both happy with]."

Edited to reflect the changes I made before I sent it.

MUCH better!

So, I'm putting myself in his position and seeing how I might take such an email. I'm thinking it's pretty open-ended, which might be intentional, but OTOH I'm not sure I (your H) would know how to respond.

Do you think it would be an improvement if you started the ball rolling with a suggestion he might be able to work with?

Like, (just brainstorming here) if he has a trip he feels he absolutely must take, can he set aside some UA and FC time before and after? Asking for another time to celebrate your birthday? (I know I know.... that is soooooo less-than-optimum, to have to ask...... it doesn't count if you have to ask, right? But oh well, sometimes we have to ask, to be H&O. Do you think asking would lead to resentment?)

jayne, thanks for the brainstorming help. I wish I knew you years ago, before things got so far off-course. I remember in SAA, where they negotiated about futher work travel, and decided against it. But they still considered it. I feel jayne that things are so messed up right now, that we need a break from all of these issues, to see if we can make it. Then from a point of strength, negotiate things back in, slowly. Were not doing what it takes to work it out like that. As it is, we're looking at a cross-country move, and in all likelihood a schedule with work travel until then. And the drinking, and the missing work boundaries, and his issues with me, too, like how mean and controlling he sees me.

He did reschedule to be here for my birthday, and made sure to let me know how inconvenient that was for him. I thanked him later, when he wasn't grouchy.

It's open-ended because I don't see any options that I didn't already bring up, just options that he's already turned down. Because he's not enthusiastic about them. I unerstand that this attitude is part of the problem. I need to believe that there are plenty of solutions. The ones I see are:

1. He could find another job here, one that he could leave when he wants to go to SoCal
2. He could find another client for his consultant company so he could work there instead, a company that is down here.

He says there is no point, because we're moving in May. He says that the two offers he has out there don't involve travel in California. He says he's willing to go out there now.

I'll tell you what would make me enthusiastic, jayne. There is an MB Weekend the weekend of October 10th and 11th. The kids have off Thursday the 9th before that for Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year, and DD7's godmother is taking her daughter and DD7 up to Disney for her daughter's birthday for the 4 day weekend. There is school that DD12 is going to, but if DD12 got her work early, she would be enthusiastic about going to Disney with them, and H and I could go to the MB Weekend in MN.

That's a thought!

With things the way they are right now, I don't see you making any headway by asking him to give up or change any of the work stuff he feels is non-negotiable. Given that, you want to figure out what you can do to work around that. I would guess that for guys, it's an LB to be asked to say no to work they feel they need to do for their career. So you need to figure out if it's, what the phrase? the hill to die on?

So I like your idea, about going to an MB weekend instead of asking him to cancel one of his trips. There may be other ideas out there too.

You know, this is a real opportunity for you to make some deposits in his love bucket if yer up to it. I bet if you offered him support in what he feels is necessary for him, not necessarily you faking enthusiasm but you letting him do those things without guilt and you "keeping the home fires burning" so to speak, that he would be appreciative and more open to meeting you halfway. Whaddaya think?

Just to add a possible insight to EO's H's mindset, it is possible that he does indeed feel that EO is controlling by impeding the move to California. It's possible for both of you to feel that the other in controlling to some extent and it's also possible for that to be true. I recall the XW exclaiming that I was controlling, I was absolutely floored, because I had always considered her to be controlling. It was an eye-opener that the both of us could perceive the other as being controlling simultaneously.

So, EO, don't be a doormat but also be cognizant that you exercising your will could be viewed as being controlling by him. In my book, a perception of control reveals a lack of negotiation and the possible conditions to start a resentment. Resentments are the failure to communicate your feelings as they occur.

Good luck as always.

I don't see you making any headway by asking him to give up or change any of the work stuff he feels is non-negotiable.

Neither do I. But I owed it to my marriage to make the thoughtful request, anyway.

I would guess that for guys, it's an LB to be asked to say no to work they feel they need to do for their career.

Him saying it's controlling doesn't make it so. Policy of Radical Honesty, I needed to let him know that this makes me deeply unhappy. It is not a hill to die on for me. But it is important to find solutions that make both of us happy. He's a CPA, so there is no travel necessary for many jobs that he could grow his career at.

Jayne, I have done this for years, kept the home fires burning, alone. We all have what we're good at. I wasn't cut out for this. It is not what I want for my life. What I got was deep depression. This was not what I signed on for. He only went on one "emergency" trip when we dated. The house feels SO empty for so long, and then the not being able to reach H in the evening when he couldn't hear his cell drove me nuts. I can reach him now, at least, for the most part. And when he got home, we felt disconnected.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong about travelling for other people. It sounds very exciting. But it's not the home life I want for my own life. I know folks whose kids are grown, who travel together. That would be cool.

I accept that this is his choice, and am not fighting him or guilting him on it. I let him know that I am open to finding a solution together.

I will enable him, and do his share that he should be doing, at this time. For now. He says that in California, the offers are for local companies, no need or opportunity to travel. I'm doing m y level best to keep an open mind.

booka, thanks for that insight. I am really trying to negotiate this. I know that in the past, both H and I have gotten frustrated with trying to negotiate at times, and given in to win-lose situations instead. I'm trying to do better.

And he has to try better to negotiate a win-win solution. He seems very bull-headed, like he feels that he's been painted into a corner.

A CPA, huh, I wonder if they have the same arrested emotional development that engineers have. You might consider that you might be dealing with someone who is a teenager emotionally.

He seems very bull-headed, like he feels that he's been painted into a corner.

I think you're exactly right on that. He's written down all these "controlling" things, and is going to bring them up in MC tonight. The MC is really solution oriented, so I am hoping that she talks about negotiation again, gives him the insight that there are no "have to", only "choose to" and "choose not to"

Heh, I'm a software engineer

Since coming here, I've found that I've had a lot of teenagar reactions myself. Like that sneaky DJ jayne found! I'm glad that I have you all here and a great group of folks IRL to help me trade those in for a new perspective. Man, it helps so much to be able to get this stuff off of my chest.

LOL, I am a software engineer also, but grew up with an electrical engineer father and have resisted the stereotypical tendencies. Plus I have an extremely outgoing and people friendly personality with an aura that extends at least 50' in diameter. No, I can't see my aura, but I can see the effects!

That's pretty cool about the aura, i never checked into that. I started out as a teacher, and I'm still pretty friendly.

Okay, this is a little embarassing, but another thing I hate about the all-week travel - no SF, not even an opportunity! At least there is a chance when he's here LOL.

No need to be embarrassed, I consider it a plus to your relationship that it's even a factor. Have you ever told him that or are you too embarrassed? I am curious if it would serve as any enticement.

I haven't told him that, I hadn't even realized it until I was thinking about jayne's questions, about maybe extra UA time before he left. I was feeling embarassed to ask him about asking about setting a little extra time aside, because it can get more busy with the packing and all, but thinking on it, I don't need to be. He may have been wondering that himself and embarassed to ask, I don't know.

Cat mentioned on another thread a pretty neat book to try, too, that I've been meaning to get, with fun invitations to try. That sounds like a fun no-pressure way to break the ice, too.