Very good point. Thanks.

The question should be "How would you feel about chatting with the man who your wife was riding last night'?

You know, you might be onto something here. I would invite her over for dinner so your wife can get to know her better. They can compare notes! They might even find they have alot more in common than just you.

Try and be open minded, IAM! sheesh.. :RollieEyes:

Maybe it is time to go to an "open marriage" where you both can bang others or have emotional affairs with other people. I get it you actually never met your PORN OW in person....

"Meremortal, I understand your concern, I really do."

Um - NO you apparently do NOT.
But hey, some people just have to learn the hard way.

"At first, when I posted my story, I didn't read much else on this forum, but I have been reading more lately, and I can see how serious these affairs are."

Keep reading, and if you continue to take this so casually your story could end up being one of the worst ones here. Look in your son's eyes today and consider that unless you seriously shift your thinking you will be destroying his right to an intact family. My daughters were severely affected by their WF's (Wayward Father's) adultery. The youngest, 10 years old at the time starting cutting herself. The oldest totally shut down and had to be hospitalized for a couple of times for a few months (and is still, 7 years later, only a shadow of her former self), the middle daughter felt she had to take her WF's place and be the responsible, to grow up right away (at only 13).

"It looks like the typical OW/OM wants to pull the married spouse away from their marriage. In fact, I had a meeting w/ my counselor today and she said exactly that -- that there a lot of single women who would like to be in a relationship and they don't care if they wreck a home and get a married man to leave his family."

And this is some sort of surprise to you?
Did she also add that most of those women are clever enough to pretend otherwise?

"But really, the OW in my case IS different."

Oh PUH-LEASE! Do some more reading here dude - they're ALL suposedly 'different' LOL. IMHO the extent of your naive trust in this OW is matched only by the extent of her cunning ability to con you.

"I tried many times to meet her. Early on in my affair, I pressed her very hard to meet in person. I can't tell you how many times I begged to meet her. But she would never let me. She said that a face-to-face meeting would escalate our relationship way too much, and she didn't want me to have to deal with that."

So she plays the hard to get, tease the man along, until he is in an absolute frenzy of desire for her, until you "begged to meet her" game... and THAT is why you think she's innocent? LOL My guess is she is laughing harder than I am!

Maybe you don't know that many females, maybe you don't have 5 sisters like I do... but I ASSURE YOU she knew exactly what she was doing, exactly how to get you to beg.

Remember that scene from that 'Sandlot' movie where the kids were watching the lifegaurd put sunscreen on? One kids is going nuts and says "she doesn't know what she's doing"? The other (smarter) kid replied that yes she DID know exactly what she was doing. Dude this OW is an employee in the porn industry and you are so naive and trusting that you think she doesn't know what she's doing?

"If she HAS been playing me as you suggest, I would be shocked."

Well, then be shocked already because I assure you she has played you. BTW, how much did you have to charge to your credit card for this 'emotional bond' you had with her?

"And I guess if it was true, then I would deserve every bit of misery that I'd have coming to me."

Yup you would deserve it - BUT your wife and son most certainly do NOT. And it is YOUR JOB to protect them from OW like her.

"But I really believe her."

Why? Because it would be too embarrassing to admit you're wrong, that you've been duped by a porn industry employee?
Because pretending she's innocent and you are her knight in shining armor defending her honor, protects your own ego?
(Meanwhile in reality you are failing to protect your wife and son - failing to be the hero they need and deserve.)

"And I DO respect her."

Why in the world would you respect a porn worker who has lured you in and gotten you addicted to her product?

"At the time, I thought she was being unreasonable by not letting me visit her."

She's a porn worker dude - that's all.
Just like those 'dancers' at strip clubs you are nothing special to her, no matter how much money you shove down her g-string (or rack up on your credit card to see her online) she isn't going home with you at the end of the night (not for free anyway). You're just one of her many customers.

"But now, I'm soooo glad she stuck to her guns. I can see now that if I had met her in person, I most likely would've been hopelessly addicted to her."

You ARE addicted to her, pathetically IMHO.
And you are still hoping to meet her in person.

"Besides, do I really think I would abandon my wife to pursue a porn star?"

It's happened before. Even porn workers and prostitutes usually have the goal of meeting a man who will marry them someday.

"C'mon, I might be dumb, as they say, but I'm not stupid!!"

No comment...

"She has online relationships with several other guys. I'm not that special to her. I know that."

Then your marirage might be somewhat safe because she might have better targets than you. What did you tell her about yourself? She has access to lots of men and probably to their wallets too. You might be safe if she thinks you don't have as much money or earning potential as some of the other fellas she got hooked on her.

"For a while, I got caught up in the fantasy that she and I were "soul mates," but I know now it was just a diversion from the boredom I had in my own marriage."

Ah yes - the 'soulmate' delusion.

"Meremortal, I do appreciate you being concerned about me and my family, but really, I will be ok, and I'm pretty sure my wife and I will be ok too."

Whether or not your marriage is safe depends on your actions.
The sooner you get out of the fog the better.

"She's an amazing woman and has lots of patience. I've said this before on this thread, and I'll say it again, I am VERY lucky to have her."

Hmmm - looks like her planning to go meet her male friend for lunch may indicate that you've overestimated her 'patience' with you a tad, eh? No doubt your wife agrees that you are very lucky to have her; and maybe she thinks it's about time for your luck to run out?

"You mention that I'm struggling with a very strong addiction. You know, I really don't think so."

Of course you don't think so... you just think it's 'normal' to BEG a porno worker to meet with you in person. Yea that's it, you're not addicted, it's perfectly 'normal' to think you've become 'soulmates' with the person selling you pron. You can't even walk your dogs without obsessing over the OW. (You must subconsciously at least see the connection between 'dog' and the OW.)

"I haven't contacted the OW in a week and a half, and I don't have any urges to. I do miss her from time to time, but I think that will fade."

If you continue to resist the urge to contact her (you know that addictive urge, but hey let's pretend it's not an addiction) then yes, your will think less of her. You will think less of her as in less often AND you will think less of her as in you will let go of your delusion that she is in any way a respectable or innocent person.

"I'm ok with the no contact, and I'm glad that she has respected it. ...... well, actually, I do sometimes wish she would try to contact me, but the longer I go without hearing from her, the more I realize that what we had really WAS just a fantasy on my part and nothing special on her part. I'm ok with that. I'm ready to move on."

It will work in your favor that her only interest in you was that you were just one of her many customers. Also, the porn industry sometimes employs bouncer types to get rid of the guys who don't get it that the porn worker is not their 'soulmate'. So it would be very wise of you to not harrass her with any future contact.

"One thing I've learned through this is that I think men have a need they don't often admit, or maybe don't know they have, and that's the need for an emotional bond."

What you apparently have yet to learn is that OW are well aware of that need and how to go about subtly and slyly meeting that need in order to get married men to fall in loev with them.
Until you accept that fact you will be powerless, impotent, when it come to protecting yourself, your wife, and your son from OW who cross your path.

BTW, are you done with porn?
Do you understand now how those employed in the porn industry are highly skilled in how to get men to beg for more?

"I had lost that with my wife and figured I could ride out life in a dull marriage and simply find happiness on my own."

Because of apathy - yours too not just your wife's.
I once read that marriage is like bread - you have to get up and make it again every day.

"When I met the OW and formed an emotional bond with her, I realized that I had a need for something missing in my marriage."

And hopefully you will also soon realize that OW and porn workers know how to EXPLOIT that to suit their own agenda.

"My main goal now is to rebuild that bond with my wife. I think we can do it, but it will take time and work."

It will also take some humility and the death of some of your favorite self-deceptions on your part too. Repeat after me:
OW and/or porn workers know how to exploit male desires AND EVEN know how to do so without the males suspecting they are being played.

"Amazingly, today is the first day that I actually started believing what a few counselors and a few people on this forum have said all along, ..... that we could rebuild our marriage to a truly wonderful state."

That was an example of the fog temporarily lifting a little.
As you continue to reject contact with the OW you will defog more and more.

"I told my wife that when she got home and she was so happy to hear me say that. She has believed that for a while, but I was having trouble seeing how it could happen."

But then you blew it with telling her you thought it would be a good idea to meet the OW. (BTW, if my WXH had ever suggested that the OW meet me I would have said yes too... it wouldn't have been pretty...)

"It sounds weird, and my wife was the one who actually said this, but it's almost as if the affair was necessary for us to get to the point of really working on our marriage."

I understand that and even said somthing similar tomy EXH once too. But I'm telling you from a BW perspective that does NOT translate to your BW will understand if you EVER contact the OW again, or ever get involved with another OW. What your BW IS telling you is that you'd better turn this around real quick like, make sure you've learned the right lessons, and treat this as your wake-up call to literally wear yoursefl out working to improive the marirage now.

"Before the affair, we were lazy and content with the status quo. The affair really shook us up and got us out of our complacency."

That is yet to be seen and depends on your ability to learn and do the work.

"My wife said it's too bad that it took something as traumatic as an affair to get us off our butts and into action, but if that's what it took, then in a way, the affair was a good thing. I know, I know, that sounds like such a bad thing to say, but do you see what I'm getting at?"

Yes I undersand that but I want to warn you that she also is very aware that if she had married a man who wasn't so trusting of OW, who didn't succomb to the temptation of porn, who had loved her enough to not even be interested in OW and porn.. then she'd not be in this situation today. And she is also very aware that some men are smart enough, or might love her enough, to not fall for OW or porn. If you're smart you will work your butt off showing her that you have changed and are putting all the effort you can into the marriage.

"A really ironic thought I had tonight as I was preparing dinner for my son and I (my wife works late), is that it would be so cool if my wife and I could get over this, get this thing so far behind us, that we could laugh at it, and, God forbid, even meet the other woman in person some day, TOGETHER, and laugh about it with her too! (Oh no, I can feel the 2x4's already.)"

That was not an "ironic thought" - that was a delusional fantasy CAUSED by an ADDICTIVE URGE.

"Seriously, I even mentioned this to my wife after she got home, and although she didn't think it was as cool as I did, she wasn't upset by the thought."

You are still SO addicted that you had to convince yourself that this might be a good idea, SO wanting to meet the OW in person (um because you ARE addicted) that you even didn't realize how stupid it was to blurt this out to your wife!!!
Dude - take that rubber band off your wrist, hold it in front of your mouth, stretch it as far as you can, then let the far end go.

"She has even wanted to call the OW at times just out of curiosity."

Yea I wanted to call the OW too... I did call her in fact... I was 'curious' too (hmmmph) I was SO curious the OW is very afraid of me now LOL.

"She doesn't feel threatened by the OW and would like to understand the nature of the emotional bond I formed with her so that she (my wife) can better meet my need for it."

I didn't feel "threatened by" the OW either (um other way around LOL). But hey, why don't you give your wife the OW's contact info so she can contact her? Why not let your wife satisfy her 'curiousity'? BTW, your wife doesn't need to learn anything from the OW about how to better meet your needs. That's an insulting notion. (Remember that BW who ran her WH over with the car, repeatedly, until he was dead? He had given her a list of ways she could improve herself to be able to meet his needs as well as the OW supposedly did...)

"I know most don't recommend the BS contacting the OW, but in the case of my wife and I, we're not afraid to try if for no other reason than to see what happens."

I say give your BW the OW's contact info but YOU stay should not have ANY contact with the OW.

"Bottomline -- I think we'll be ok. It'll take time, but I think we'll be ok. Thanks for your concern."

IF you get a clue you may be right.

mere, is the OW a porn worker? I missed that part. That is even better!

"Besides, do I really think I would abandon my wife to pursue a porn star? C'mon, I might be dumb, as they say, but I'm not stupid!! She has online relationships with several other guys. I'm not that special to her. I know that. For a while, I got caught up in the fantasy that she and I were "soul mates," but I know now it was just a diversion from the boredom I had in my own marriage."

And I went for the record for longest posts in my response to his long post LOL.

I probably should have broken it down into about a dozen separate responses LOL.

So she assured you she didn't intend to break up your marriage and get married to you? And you believe her?

Dude THAT is the most dangerous type!

My WXH was a smooth-talking serial adulterer, highly skilled con-artist, using OW and then tossing them aside. Our family counselor told me he is sociopathic even. But BECAUSE the latest OW had a REALLY CONVINCING 'good girl' game, told him no and made him jump through all kinds of hoops, BECAUSE she played him along and made him wait and do so much to 'catch' her (um her plan all along) by the time she finally said yes his cravings for her were out of control.

My WXH's 'good girl' style OW said she "didn't want to break up a marriage" so my husband tried picking fights with me so I'd maybe kick him out. When that didn't work he became physically violent. I got a restraining order and then she allowed him to start dating her. But she also said she wouldn't be "second place" to his daughters and needed to be assured that "his family was totally out of his life" too. So he pretended that I wouldn't allow him visitation with his daughters (he refused visitation unless I would let him violate the restraining order and come to my home AND go along with him and daughters for visitation). Since I wouldn't allow that he was then able to go to the OW and assure her that he was all alone, his wife kicked him out and his daughters were out of his life too. So then she started dating him (before that it was 'just' an EA and going out to lunch togehter).

She basically had him checking off things on her to-do list:
___dump wife
___dump daughters
then I'll have sex with you.
And she did it in a way that she maintained her 'innocence'...
the break-up of our marriage supposedly had nothing to do with her...

In your case instead of playing the 'good girl' version of the game the OW played the 'don't worry - talking to me won't harm your marriage and you can't have me anyway version'.

Both tactics play right into the male desire to pursue, and the more unattainable the prize the more the male chases. PLUS the male doesn't even realize the danger because the OW's assurances that she has no agenda puts him at ease. These clever OW know better than to chase after men and make demands of them. They clearly understand what makes males tick and play that knowledge to their advantage.

Also both my WXH's OW and your OW were smart enough to use some other men as competition, knowing that would spark the male competitive urge. The OW in our case would go out on dates with other men besides my husband. She kept his guard down, and his pursuit mode going by doing so.

My WXH fell so hard for her that he literally sobbed like a blubbering baby at the thought of ever losing her to one of the other men. She mattered much more to him than his own daughters did.

She also was smart enough to pretend she wasn't expecting him to divorce me and marry her. She didn't reveal her agenda until after he was good and hooked. Not only did she secretly plan to marry him but she also planned to have 3 babies with him! She kept this plot of hers secret from him for over years. Her plan was:
1) get him to pursue her and fall in love with her
2) do so in a way that his gaurd would be down and her 'honor' would be protected (so she could pretend she wasn't to blame whenhis marriage ended)
3) THEN she was going to get him to marry (or else she'd dump him for another man
4) she would of course then 'accidently' get pregnant

Of course since the divorce would already be final, and she supposedly didn't cause the divorce, and my WXH was so in love with her that she was hoping he would bring up marriage... he would never think of her as the OW who destroyed his marriage and family.

When I tried to warn him that she probably had such a plan he literally laughed in my face and assured me she wasn't planning on him marrying her. (But in her case instead of falsely assuring my WXH that she had no agenda she was careful to never discuss her agenda with him. The OW in your case used the assure the married man she was no threat to his marriage approach instead.) He was SO confident that she did NOT expect him to propose to her as soon as the divorce was final that he even agreed to cancel the divorce that was to be final in 6 weeks and sign a year-long separation agreement with me instead - believing she wouldn't care. He was wrong. She had been secretly shopping for her ring and they had a huge fight because he'd delayed the divorce and her wedding (and her biological tock was ticking and she wanted babies ASAP).

Since it was only 6 weeks until the divorce was final when I learned about and started Plan A, I honestly believed it was too late, that the divorce would happen on schedule and the OW would win. I worried that the OW would be able to keep her non-chalant act up for 6 more weeks until the divorce was final. But she started acting jealous because I was allowing WH to come over again and daughters started having visitation with him again. And THEN WH signed the separaton agreement instead of the divorce papers. THAT is when the OW revealed her true agenda to my WH, the agenda she had all along.

She used the depth she had gotten her claws into him to rip him to shreds for the remainder of their affair. She threw other men in his face and eventually dumped him for another man. At some points he was SO weak and addicted to her he actually considered marrying her but she supposedly felt so 'hurt' and 'betrayed' by his getting back in contact with me and his daughters during Plan A that she couldn't 'forgive'... that plus once we went to court he had to start paying me a LOT more in support than he had when they were dating and then he got laid off from his job so she lost ALL interest in him. Apparently her plan was not merely to get married and have babies but to marry a man with lots of money to spend on HER.

WHEN you get it that the OW is indeed a danger to your marriage,
your marriage will have a chance to recover.

But you might be the type that has to learn it firsthand and can't learn from somebody else's experience.

Look your son in the eyes and imagine him with permanent scars from cutting himself, or going to visit him in the psychiatric ward at the hospital, or calling you 'kitty whipped' (my middle daughter said this to her WF because he was so pathetically being yanked around by the OW), or refusing to have anything to do with you anymore. Start taking this seriously for your son's sake.

Hi meremortal, that was a LONG one, worth thinking about. Thanks. A couple of things.....

A lot of your comments show stereotypical thinking. You might be right about the specific OW in my case, then again, maybe not. I FEEL as though you are not right, but I can see the possibility that you are. I'm glad you shared the experiences you had with your ex. They make me think long and hard about what my involvement with the OW meant. Thank you for your thoughts.

I think your motive for calling the OW in your case is different than my wife's. My wife has the OW's contact info (phone, email, postal address) and can get in touch with her whenever she wants to. The main reason she hasn't so far is that she has heard, just like I have, that it is not a good idea. But neither one of us knows why. Can someone please give me some rational reasons why she shouldn't? She doesn't want to call the OW to yell and scream at her; she just wants to understand her.

As my wife and I go through the process of recovery, the OW is one area that it is a mystery to my wife. In order for her to have a more complete picture of the affair, she wants to uncover that mystery. It's related to the issue of how much information should a WS share with the BS about the affair. My feeling is that my wife is entitled to know as much about the affair as she wants to know. And if contacting the OW is part of her need to know, then why does everyone say it's a bad idea?

Melody, you're a genius! You gave me a great idea! I'm going to call up the OW and invite her to meet my wife and I and the other guy for lunch. We'll get a room as you suggest, and we'll have a wonderful foursome. You're brilliant! Thanks a ton!

I knew you'd eventually come through with some solid advice. I just had to be patient.

Thanks sweetie! XOXOXOXO

brwmb...

If, God forbid, your wife were RAPED, would you need to call the rapist and ask him about technique? THAT is who the OW is to your wife...A rapist...

Your "emotional bond" with OW was not created in a real world setting...You didn't share a mortgage with her, see her with a vomiting/diarhhea virus, smell her morning breath etc...It did NOT consist of all of the things that a real life relationship does...There is no way for your wife to learn how to be your "fantasy partner"...There was NOT a REAL "emotional bond" with the OW...Can you see this at all?

Mrs. W

I call BS. Pretty much on this whole thread.

If you're for real, and I highly doubt it... your wife has some of her own issues to deal with (IF this is what she's really thinking.)

It's as if you enjoy the debate and you're making it up as you go. If I sensed one iota of remorse or guilt in your writings, it would be different. It's just not there.

I just don't believe you're authentic and believe that you're just playing us.

Send your wife here. What are you afraid of?

I was a BS... I would have JUMPED on a resource like this. Most people would.

By the way... what exactly do the letters stand for in your user name?

Brilliant analogy, Mrs W!

I'm thinking you may be on to something. It's hard to believe someone could REALLY be this clueless. Perhaps it's just another goof-off getting his jollies by engaging us all in the drama.

I was so right many edited posts ago.

"She doesn't want to call the OW to yell and scream at her; she just wants to understand her."

Send your BW here, we'll explain all about the OW to her plus give her all the info she needs to protect her marriage from OW.

OW has NOTHING to teach your BW of any value.

In case you haven't figured it out yet your OW is a wh*re for hire.

When you are divorced and remarried to this uh... lady, woman, gal... wh*re, will you make your kids call her mommy or can they stick with wh*re?

EXCELLENT POINTS Mrs WonderFUL!!!

But I suspect this WH doesn't care at all about his marriage.
He thinks this is all so funny.
IMHO he deserves whatever outcome he gets now.
His wife and son don't however, so hopefully he will send his wife here so we can help her at least.