Ears, it sounds to me like your dh has a mindset that as the husband, he has the final say. You can try and convince him all you want, but I don't think he's going to budge on this.

You may be right. I don't see myself so much as trying to convince him, as trying to keep an open mind myself. I can think of many times where I didn't try to negotiate for things because I thought that he would not be open to it. And there were many times, like how they dsescribe in the Dance Of Anger book, or in Star's the Bad Giver post, when I complained about not getting something instead of continuing to look for the win-win solution. And it does feel good changing my 50%.

And too, I really think that this stuff with H is tied into his being between State of Conflict and State of Withdrawal. I had been internalizing his feelings, too, and feeling myself that I had to get out of this. I've been really hanging tougher in my boundaries, and it is really interesting to me, but I am making deposits to myself, holding to my integrity and not tolerating being bullied, and being bullied in front of the kids. If he wants to make DJs about me, that's his choice. I care about myself and our family too much to stand there and take it. On that circular staircase, passing the same post, but I can really feel it down to my bones that I'm different.

My concern is the kids still being exposed to this. I don't want for them this example, that when a man loves you, he expresses it by making decisions for you. When H and I were connected, and he didn't treat me like this at all. Just when we're in this State Of Conflict. I am really hoping that we can make a lasting connection here this time. But if not, it's okay, I feel secure now that I'll see it, and there'll be a plan for me.

Anyone remember this one?

Amy Grant with Vince Gill - House Of Love

Chorus:
Well, I bet you any amount of money
He'll be coming back to you
Ooh, I know there aint no doubt about it
Sometimes life is funny
You think youre in your darkest hour
When the lights are coming on in the house of love

Ooh, house of love

Youve been up all night
Thinking it was over
Hes been out of sight
At least for the moment
But when something this strong
Ooh, gets a hold on you
The odds are ninety-nine to one
Its got a hold on him too

(repeat chorus)

When the lights are coming on in the house of love

Now when the house is dark
And youre all alone inside
Youve gotta listen to your heart
And put away your foolish pride
Though the storm is breaking
And thunder shakes the walls
Love with a firm foundation
Aint never, never, never gonna fall

(repeat chorus)

Though the storm is breaking
And thunder shakes the walls
Love with a firm foundation
Aint never, never, never gonna fall

Well, I bet you any amount of money
He'll be coming back to you
Ooh, I know there aint no doubt about it
Sometimes life is funny
You think youre in your darkest hour
When the lights are coming, lights are coming on

Well, I bet you any amount of money, baby
He'll be coming back to you
Back to you, back to you
Ooh, I know there aint no doubt about it
Sometimes life is funny
You think youre in your darkest hour
When the lights are coming on in the house of love
Oooh, yeah
Ooh, I know there aint no doubt about it
Sometimes life is funny
You think youre in your darkest hour
When the lights are coming on in the house of love

I don't want for them this example, that when a man loves you, he expresses it by making decisions for you.

I left a lot out of that statement. There's a lot that is going on here that I don't like the kids seeing, the DJs, the AOs, the mocking. I am expressing that respectfully, in front of them. That I find it disprespectful and am requesting that it stop. And when it keeps going, they see me leave respectfully. I am trying to give this one last shot here. I believe we can make it, and that would be the best amends I can give my kids. But I may be wrong, and I won't expose them to this for too long, either.

Happy, are you our old friend happytobehere?

No, I'm not happytobehere, but I think I saw that name when I was creating my username. I chose my name because I'm trying to focus on the positive in my life.

Hi Cat, I've seen you post before about this Right Man syndrome. Do you think that Ear's husband has it? If I remember right you saw some similarities with your husband also.

Yeah, it's possible he does. Then again, it could just be how men see things naturally.

Okay, I got the book, cat. It looksfun and lighthearted, like I was expecting. I felt very nervous about taking the first invitation out, because if he "threw the book at me," I could no longer return it. Instead, he got a big smile on his face, said something off-color, and gave me a kiss. And them laid down to take a nap LOL. Maybe doesn't want to fall alseep tonight and miss this LOL.

I'm happy that he liked the invitation. I see why he doesn't make off-color comments to me, I didn't respond to that part. I could picture someone like you or pieta having a funny comment that affirmed that it was a funny comment and that the banter is appreciated. Progress, not perfection, right?

Hey that's awesome!

So did you give him the first invitation too? How does that work? What is the first invitation? Let us know how it goes, 'kay? Maybe I should get that book!

Can I have any more questions in this post? LOL

Didn't turn out as expected. The first invitation was a "hot and cold" idea, if that gives you the idea. H had a reoccurence of a contagious rash, so I changed the date until next week. Hopefully, it'll be gone then. It was a fun idea

Ooooh, I gotta get that book!

So is he still looking forward to it?

I think so. I said, YOU have a rash, but there are invitations for the man to give to the woman, too. He didn't bite. At least, we got a lot of great UA and FC time in. Didn't get much done on the house, but it'll still be there tomorrow. Baby steps, right?

My grandpa bought a new TV, and gave us the old one, so we FINALLY got the TV H has been wanting for the bedroom. Our neighbor who would help us get the thing upstairs is out of town, but next weekend, we'll get it up there. I'm keeping an open mind about it. Last time, I used to get headaches from H running it all night. But I think we're a lot more caring towards one another than we were back then.

I got that Why Does He Do That? book, too, and actually went to the register with the two books.

I hear you about going to the register with those two particular books.

I feel like I'm hanging on by my fingernails. Making some changes, and facing the "change back" behavior. I can do this, right?

H is telling me again he "can't do this anymore." I tihnk he's talking about leaving. Doesn't feel good to admit this, but I hope he does. It was so much more peaceful when he was gone all week. He is hyperfocused on me, hypercritical of everything I do, as I'm trying to fade back into the background.

{{{ears}}}

Make decisions to protect yourself first, ok? You can survive without him if you have to, but you can't survive without yourself. And nothing is permanent; spending time apart may make him realize what he's been thinking of isn't so great. An empty apartment is very lonely. My mom told me the other day that after my dad left, he came back a few months later and begged her to take him back, he'd made a mistake (read: no women wanted him). She said no, because she knew he'd just revert back to the same old POS. But you never know.

But I know what you mean. We had a big blowout the other night, the kind where I had to leave the house, H went ballistic, D18 freaked out and thought I'd left her. The next day she and I took a walk, and she admitted her guilt over wishing he would just stay away; that we are so much happier without him. She's full of so much resentment at him for making us so miserable. Not at me for staying (at least not that she admitted).

Every time you talk about your problems, I feel like they kind of overlap ours. Like you guys might be better off just getting the stress out of the house. Only you can know that. Whatever you do, please think twice before letting your one daughter go live with him in CA just so she can be close to LA. It wouldn't be the same without you there, and I worry for how she would turn out; it's a tough business for a kid, especially without your mom.

{{{ears}}}

I'm sorry I didn't stick around to read your post. I went to put the kids to bed and read to them. You're probably already asleep, it's really late where you are.

I can't think of anything to add to what cat said. Take care of yourself. Yes you can do this. You can! You know it. You have the power to decide about your life, you are in control of your life. I know you are stronger than you think.

Thanks for the hugs, guys. That book about controlling men, cat, has been really disturbing. The same words I have heard from my H, and thought he couldn't have meant such mean things. Like when I ask him if he is done shouting, before I get home, and he says, "I don't know, are you?" Turns everything back around on me. Tells the MC that we "push each other's buttons." I deliberately check my intent to make sure that I'm not doing something that he's asked me not to. Yet he admits to deliberately hurting me, and justifies it with fase claims that I do the same to him.

Then there's my 50% to own. I rationalize away what I'm not ready to see and accept. I have been working a long time to Seek To Understand, but I've had so much denial, I hear what I am willing to hear, and rationalize away the rest.

At least he decided to put his fangs back in this morning, no longer out for me. I have a backup plan, three different friends the girls and I can stay with if it gets bad again.

Cat, I'm sorry to hear about the blowout the other night. Maybe you and DD18 could talk it out ahead of time, an escape plan for the two of you, if it happens again?

I know that there are plans that help those who want to change. H has a great, funny, warm, amazing side to him, too. I still love him, very deeply. But I've done what I can here. It's no kindness to him to protect him from the consequences of his actions.

Jayne, good for you for reading to your kids! That helps me, too, making the effort to be myself even when the day was rough. And thanks for the hugs!

You're right, ears, I need to create a plan with D18. Don't know why that never occurred to me before. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm sorry the book is disturbing, but I think so very many women take everything on their own shoulders, that they need to be awakened, you know? That's why you guys have been such a help to me, to help me see when I'm not protecting myself.

I wish I had something better for you.

If he has that good side to him, I can only think that he sees you as his enemy, the one person who takes him to task, who forces him to look at himself and his flaws. So whenever he deals with you, it's all about self-protection. I truly think if we could find a way to get our spouses to quit feeling that way, so much would be solved.

Cat, I wanted to say, I wouldn't send D12 to move away cross-country without me. I had considered it, but that's not fair to DD12 to put her in that situation.

I hear you about getting them to see that we are friends, not enemies. I've done what I can. I'm going to finish out this 10 week MC period, and then I'm leaving or getting him out. Plan B. Even if he gets nice again, like he has before. If he gets nice and stays nice, I'll hear about it from the kids. Plan B for a year.

No worries about the book. I've read similar ones before, like The Gaslight Effect. H said the same things in that book, too, but I wasn't ready to acknowledge that for long. It takes what it takes.


I have felt guilty about taking this step, because he has changed a lot since I got here three years ago. He no longer puts his hands on me or the kids in anger. His drinking is much less. His travel is much less. His IB is much less frequent. He doesn't drink and drive with the kids anymore, and hasn't drank and drove at all when he's in town since his drinking buddy stopped hanging out with him in July. He has planned a trip just the two of us and enjoyed it instead of giving me a guilt trip about it. Things are much better in the bedroom than they have been in years. He is going to MC with me at my request. I see the man I married more often than I used to. I even get to go on date nights with that man.

But he still doesn't day to day show basic respect for me. I can't make him see me as an equal. I can do my 50%, act on my belief that I am equal to him, but that's the extent of what I can do.

It's really painful as it sinks in that this is really happening. When I was indignant, I felt more detached, like this is a logical conclusion I saw coming. Logically, I did see this coming, but today it is harder to believe it.

I went home for lunch today, and H jumped on me about how he "can't do this anymore" again. I don't know, in case I was forgetting? I'm trying to remember the 180, how to stop "crowding" your partner, but it's hard not kiss his cheek or to put a hand on his shoulder as I pass him, knowing I won't have him here much longer. I better get better at this and quick, or the last that he'll remember is the crowded feeling.

I know it's for the best, for all four of us, but it's really hard to accept. Even though I know that it's been no kindness to the kids for them to see this for so long. A big part of me still believes that this can work in the future, even though H is beyond exhausted with the trying today.

I'm so sorry, ears. Email me if you need to.