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Five months Plan A.
Still no love. Still no reciprocation. Still no desire or want or meeting my EN's.
Less than an hour a week on UA. Less than two hours a week on RC and that's sketchy. I don't consider watching a movie in the same room without touching, talking or interacting to be RC or UA, but he does. Lets not even go to the SF, my number one EN.
I remember sex, I just can't place the last time I had any that lasted more than five minutes or had any foreplay or I was treated like a woman. Five minutes of oral to him does NOT a satisfying sex life make. And that little bit is only once every couple of months. He's NOT having an affair, he's just not interested in anything. I can't keep doing this marriage building stuff by myself without his buy in.
I'm at the end of my rope and ready to hang him with it!
Anybody want to place a bet that if I had an affair all he would do is look up blandly from his book or his movie and say "that's nice dear, did you remember the milk at the store?"
Relationship History -
Met, dated six months and Fell in love three years ago. Moved in together and blended our families - six kids in all. Had a baby. Got married. Ever since he moved in he acts like an Edwardian Husband. Peck on the cheek when I get his morning coffee. Sleep in the same bed not touching. He spends his days downloading movies, playing with the baby, reading and playing online games. Does minimal amount of work for our business. Thinks about me 20 seconds per day, if that. (his estimation)
I cannot handle 40 more years of being treated like a dusty nic-nack. I need to be needed. loved. desired. treated like a woman. If he can't, won't and thinks I'm nuts for asking, what other choice do I have?
I've tried plan A. He was appreciative that we no longer argued. He's mentioned several times I don't do any LB's any more and that I'm "ok" at meeting his EN's. He won't elaborate on either of those. If i ask for more information he blows up and says his answers are 'never enough for me'. I've stopped asking to avoid fights.
I've tried Thoughtful Requests. I'm berated and yelled at for having any thoughts or feelings he doesn't share. Thoughtful requests are met with "oh, so it's your way or the highway huh?" remarks, twisted words, angry accusations at things I've never said or thought etc. I've been trained NOT to answer truthfully when he asks me 'what's wrong' if it has anything to do with him. If the problem is outside our relationship, he's supportive and kind.
I've written notes and letters, explaining how I feel. Both serious and sweet. He reads them and rolls his eyes.
I've tried ignoring him to see if he notices. After a week he asked me why I was no longer getting his coffee.
I've gone thru MC with Steve Harley. Steve continually asks us to do homework. I faithfully do mine, he 'forgets' his. He politely ignores me when I suggest we plan UA time. He politely ignores me or changes the subject when I suggest RC. I'm allowed and encouraged to cuddle him while he reads his book at night before he falls asleep. not even a good night or hug or anything from him to me. I don't dare bring up the subject of SF. That just leads to an argument.
If I act 'happy' he's happy. He's not mean, or having an affair, or anything else negative as long as I maintain this illusion that I am 'happy'. He thinks that a good morning dear is all that any woman would require from a man.
Affection is less and less the more I did Plan A. We were more affectionate when we fought all the time. That doesn't make sense to me. The more I eliminate LB's and meet his EN's (the ones he'll let me) the less affectionate he becomes and the more disconnected he becomes. I don't understand that.
I've promised to not kick him out, so Plan B is out.
I just don't see that I have any more choices.
This life and this love are the stories we write
We are free to write the truth, or lies or to tear the pages
To cherish, and erase, rewrite and start over
Mate it better, make it stronger, plot twists and
the impossible happiness that comes from unexpected love and forgiveness
Make it up as we go along, to have faith in the story
And never ever, ever give up – no matter what
Or to leave the book on a park bench in the rain
and walk away, saying how sorry we were
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I just don't see that I have any more choices. This is Marriage Builder's. If you want help improving your marriage...ask for it. Come here and ask if it is time for you to drop your panties and screw another man and you will get flamed. If you think that your only choice is to drop to your knees...and not for prayer...then I feel sorry for your kids and your husband. Look, you married the guy and I don't remember in my wedding vows anything that said getting some strange woman to bang was an option when my wife was less than attentive. here's a light-bulb moment for you. Divorce is an option if you decide your marriage is not salvageable. That is a solution to this issue....not a great one...but certainly better than you joining the cast of Whoreville. How about skipping SH since that is obviously NOT working for you guys. Try a more hands on approach...a weekend retreat where he is forced to interact.... a vacation for just the two of you (assuming you have someone that can take care of the kids)....examine yourself and see if YOU have unrealistic expectations. But if you think you are a nic-nack now...have an affair...and your body and soul become nothing more than a nic-nack for someone else....and in the meantime, you sell your morals, character and class down the drain.
Last edited by medc; 09/15/08 06:37 AM.
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Could it be that he just doesn't love you anymore, but is sufficiently satisfied with your supplications to continue to stay with you? If Plan B, or otherwise leaving him, is not an option for you, what does he have to lose in this situation?
BH (me) age 55
FWW age 52
married 26 years
First DDay 2/23/08, 1 day after PA began, ~1-1/2 months after EA began
Multiple failed attempts at NC
confirmable NC since 1/23/09
(D 31; S 29) my first marriage
(D 27; S 25) her first marriage
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I wouldn't be so sure he's not having an A. It is worth at least a little bit of investigation. The man you are describing sounds exactly like my WstbxH before d-day. We were married 14 years (together 17). From the moment he said "I do" he completely ceased all forms of affection except SF which became exactly as you described. He was also a permanent fixture in front of the TV, computer or game system. Though we used to have a very active social life together (played cards in a group, went to and hosted BBQ's) all that stopped completely once married. He responded to my efforts the same way yours is responding. We discussed and fought for years over this until I eventually resigned myself to an affectionless, reclusive life. But I would have bet everything we had that despite his shortcomings, he would NEVER cheat on me. I was incredibly wrong. What's worse is all the signs were there - I just didn't see them because it seemed so utterly impossible.
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Are you serious with this post? Im honestly sitting here scratching my head over this one. You are looking for people to tell you its ok to have an Affair because your M isnt working? Unbelievable, truly. I've promised to not kick him out, so Plan B is out. I dont know about yours, but in my marriage vows, there was something about being faithful. What was it??? oh, yes. A PROMISE to forsake all others. So, you are more interested in keeping a promise NOT to kick him out that you are in maintaining your integrity and in upholding the promise to be faithful? Look, I get that you are unhappy. I get that things arent working for you, that your H is clearly not all that interested in you or your M. Im sorry for that. But, to come here and lament on how you dont see you have any other choice but to have an affair to people who are hurting and have gone through that betrayal is not only stupid, its cruel. Read some of the posts here. Educate yourself. See for yourself what a "great" solution having an affair is.
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But, to come here and lament on how you dont see you have any other choice but to have an affair to people who are hurting and have gone through that betrayal is not only stupid, its cruel. Exactly!
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Are you serious with this post? Im honestly sitting here scratching my head over this one. You are looking for people to tell you its ok to have an Affair because your M isnt working? Unbelievable, truly. Kim, I read that as a vent not that she would actually have an affair. Kind of like saying "I could prance naked in front of him and he would ask me to move because I am blocking the TV." Edited to add I do agree her subject title is inflaming. IMO she should have used something more in line with her situation. Something like "I am at my wits end."
Last edited by suamico; 09/15/08 08:26 AM.
W (me) 44
H 43
Married 19 years
DS 17
DS 15
DD 13
DD 8
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The TITLE of her post was "Is it time for an affair?"
Sorry, that's not a rant.
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Are you serious with this post? Im honestly sitting here scratching my head over this one. You are looking for people to tell you its ok to have an Affair because your M isnt working? Unbelievable, truly. Kim, I read that as a vent not that she would actually have an affair. Kind of like saying "I could prance naked in front of him and he would ask me to move because I am blocking the TV." I read it this way as well. At least give her the benefit of the doubt until she shows otherwise.
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The TITLE of her post was "Is it time for an affair?"
Sorry, that's not a rant. I added that to my post before I read yours. I agree 100% that was not right but she will have to clarify what she meant.
W (me) 44
H 43
Married 19 years
DS 17
DS 15
DD 13
DD 8
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Sorry guys, I disagree. Ending a post titled "Is is time for an affair?" by saying: I just don't see that I have any more choices. is, imo, asking for permission and does not present as hypothetical. Regardless of the intent of this post, it is still cruel to post something like this here.
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The TITLE of her post was "Is it time for an affair?"
Sorry, that's not a rant. Well, I did some more reading in past posts and putting it all together there is more going on here than I realized. I don't even know what to say at this point.
W (me) 44
H 43
Married 19 years
DS 17
DS 15
DD 13
DD 8
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The TITLE of her post was "Is it time for an affair?"
Sorry, that's not a rant. Well, I did some more reading in past posts and putting it all together there is more going on here than I realized. I don't even know what to say at this point. ditto. IMHO, this poster has big problems that will require more than phone coaching.
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Still no love. Still no reciprocation. Still no desire or want or meeting my EN's.
Less than an hour a week on UA. Less than two hours a week on RC and that's sketchy. I don't consider watching a movie in the same room without touching, talking or interacting to be RC or UA, but he does. Lets not even go to the SF, my number one EN. May I ask you a question that may sound kinda mean, but I intend no disrespect by it. Have you let yourself go? Let me explain. I am freinds with a couple where the wife had the exact same complaints about her husband as you do. I had known them since they got together, very happy couple for the first few years, had a kid and still had a great relationship. But slowly, starting in about there 4rth year together, the relationship slowed down. The husband slowly lost interest in his wife in a romantic way. The love was still there, but just not the romantic kind. He just kinda lost interest in her in that way, even in SF. The wife was baffled, she tried harder and harder to meet her husbands EN's but he just wasn't responsive. He seemed to appriciate her efforts, but it didn't really sink in that he wasn't reciprcating her love. To this day they are still married (about 7 or 8 yrs now) but there relationship suffers from the same problem it has since about the 4rth year with the added bonus that the wife has gotten so frustrated that they are starting to fight. But sadly, everyone but the poor wife knows what the problem is. The husband married a 5'-3" 110Lb super hottie that ran everyday, played softball, and was extreamly active. This is the person who he fell in love with and married, this is the person who had his child. Not the 5'-3" 200lb woman who he is currently married to. She does not even resemble the same person, and she just doesn't make the connection. This may not be your problem. I only bring it up becouse I have seen it happen to my freinds. And I mean no disrespect by it. But, does this apply to you?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Raven in many of your other posts, you say you are NOT married. Did you get married just yesterday or are you being dishonest with us?? Are you just "considering yourself married"?
Please be straight with the MB members before they waste their time giving you advice that may not apply.
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Raven in many of your other posts, you say you are NOT married. Did you get married just yesterday or are you being dishonest with us?? Are you just "considering yourself married"?
Please be straight with the MB members before they waste their time giving you advice that may not apply. Good catch KIR...You know of course that this is when raven is gonna come back and tell us all that they are "just as good as married"..."common law married"..."marriage is just a piece of paper", blah, blah, blah and hmmph! That's okay though, because we can also offer her a little saying, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"... I agree with the others too, the title of your post couldn't be more cruel raven... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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raven's post on Emotional Needs from 6/23/08: I'm SO confused!
A brief history: Met a wonderful man two years ago. Dated for six months, best love of our life, ever. He moved in Oct 2006. Asked me to marry him shortly thereafter. I agreed. But when i bring up a 'when' he avoids the issue or jokingly tells me i should pick the date. I have several times, and he will not discuss it, and 'forgets' about it. Never the less, he introduces me to business colleagues as his wife, and his family refers to us as Husband and Wife. But he still lists himself as "single" on his myspace profile, which he visits daily and has oodles of friends he talks to, several female. I do not suspect any infidelity.
Shortly after he moved in we stopped dating, stopped talking as much, stopped having sex as much, stopped doing anything but working together (we work from home) and raising our combined families (six kids I homeschool)
I was confused, angry, worried, depressed. He thought it was just a natural progression of how a relationship should be and told me i needed to adjust and get over it.
Fast Forward to December 07. We are arguing more and more. He finally says he wants to move out. I am devastated. I give him a copy of the EN and fill one out myself. He agrees to try and give us "six weeks" IF we do not argue at all in those six weeks, he will consider staying.
six weeks goes by, me walking on eggshells. we do not argue, but speak to each other less and less. less affection, no sex, no playing, no dating. more or less roommates who barely speak to each other. He gets angry over little issues, but won't talk to me or tell me what's wrong. He seems to be walking around in an angry fog all the time. No attempts to gently ask him to share with me what's wrong helps. This makes me more and more depressed. to see the man i am STILL in love with to treat me like he doesn't care, or doesn't want me around, while lavishing all his affection and attention on the kids (specifically where i'm around and can see it) is killing me. Did I mention i was six months pregnant at this time?
Jan 08, I give birth to our son - a beautiful 4lb preemie. I had Pre-Eclampsia and he stayed in NICU for a month. DH suggests I stay with his dying mother who lives near the hospital so I can take care of her. Aside from 62 staples, high blood pressure etc, he barely seems to notice me. I live on the floor in her living room and provide hospice care. We visit our son together. we talk about the kids and business. but never about us. He never even tells me he appreciates me taking care of his mother, much less seems to care how i'm doing. I'm in and out of the hospital several times that month.
Feb 08, I'm home, working, taking care of kids, doing the homeschooling etc. He spends hours cuddling with our son during working hours and I end up having to pick up his slack. When I offer to switch, and have some time with our son he tells me "no, i've got it, thanks" and goes back to cuddling the baby. He seems very pleased when I finally give up breastfeeding so he can provide for the baby even MORE. I have to wait till he's asleep to get any time with the baby. It's all very subtle. He'll be holding the baby, and I can come up and talk to both of them, he says 'oh isn't he adorable' things like that. But when i offer to take and hug and hold my son, he makes polite excuses to keep him.
March 08, I'm at wits end. Call Dr. Harley for an appt. DH says all the right things, tells Steve that he wants to work things out, that he wants us to be closer etc. Steve tells paul to fill out the ENQ and LB and he does, five months after I gave it to him!
Several sessions later, DH is just going thru the motions. Steve tells him to be more affectionate, tasks us with having recreational time together and to have sex together. DH privately tells me that romantic love is unrealistic and he loves me, cares about me, but not in the way i want him to. And oh, by the way, he never will.
He then told me a few weeks ago that our personal relationship was 'not working out' and he was ready to move on. I am shocked, stunned, depressed, you name it. I spend the next few days in a daze.
Two days after this, he starts being REALLY nice to me. hugs, kisses, cuddling at night. No sex or recreation, but affection (my #2 need. #1 is SF) Two days of this and i'm VERY confused. but NOT complaining!!! wow, he loves me again! I start feeling better. Two nights later, we make love for the first time in months. We are cuddling after and I ask him, "honey, why the change? Why all of a sudden did you decided to put us back together?"
He says "you looked so sad. it made me feel like an a**. I never meant to hurt you. Besides, my last break up was really ugly and we wern't freinds after. I want our break up to be freindly. So when i do leave we don't impact the kids so much.
WHAT?????? He was only being nice to me because he felt SORRY for me? he was STILL planning on LEAVING? omg.
Again, devastated.
Now he says he wants to work on us as a couple. But when i suggest going out, he says no, unless it's to a party by himself, or agrees but never does anything with me. Three days go by and he doesn't even touch me casually, much less a hug or anything. I'm extreemly depressed again. Finally he gives me a hug. I ask why he hasn't in two days and he replies "why didn't you give me one? and smiles" After that if i try to give him a hug, he acts like he doesn't want it.
I don't know WHAT to do. Why is he doing this? How can I fix it?
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Several things are just not adding up.
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Raven,
Married or not young lady, before you decide to CHEAT, end the relationship with your pseudo-husband.
Cheating on someone is one of the cruelest things a partner can do to another. Its effects are tantamount to experiencing rape or death of a child. People commit suicide over being cheated on.
End the relationship if you think there isn't any hope and you're that unhappy. Cheating as an answer to unhappiness only creates more and worse problems. It DESTROYS lives.
Jo
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“Like everything which is not the involuntary result of fleeting emotion but creation of time and will, any marriage, happy or unhappy, is infinity more interesting than any romance however passionate”. - W.H. Auden
If you are thinking that an affair is going to save you then please take the time to read every post in the infidelity section. Pay close attention to the pain that you will cause yourself, your husband, and your children.
Also - take the time to try to get insise this song - I am not sure if it was written after having an affair but just try to place yourself in the position of having had one and then read/listen:
How I wish I could surrender my soul;
Shed the clothes that become my skin;
See the liar that burns within my needing.
How I wish I'd chosen darkness from cold.
How I wish I had screamed out loud,
Instead I've found no meaning.
I guess it's time I run far, far away; find comfort in pain,
All pleasure's the same: it just keeps me from trouble.
Hides my true shape, like Dorian Gray.
I've heard what they say, but I'm not here for trouble.
It's more than just words: it's just tears and rain.
How I wish I could walk through the doors of my mind;
Hold memory close at hand,
Help me understand the years.
How I wish I could choose between Heaven and Hell.
How I wish I would save my soul.
I'm so cold from fear.
I guess it's time I run far, far away; find comfort in pain,
All pleasure's the same: it just keeps me from trouble.
Hides my true shape, like Dorian Gray.
I've heard what they say, but I'm not here for trouble.
Far, far away; find comfort in pain.
All pleasure's the same: it just keeps me from trouble.
It's more than just words: it's just tears and rain.
Tears and Rain.
Tears and Rain.
Far, far away; find comfort in pain,
All pleasure's the same: it just keeps me from trouble.
It's more than just words: it's just tears and rain
If we are consumed with highlighting our spouses falling short, we will miss the divine mysteries of marriage and the lessons that it has to teach us. As long as a couple is married they continue to display “however imperfectly” the ongoing commitment between Christ and his church. Thus, simply “sticking it out” becomes vitally important. Just sticking it out is victory in and of itself and creates a certain glory. Sacred Marriage
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