Big Red,


What's a "big red flag for her"? You are worried about her "red flags"? Are YOU having an affair...or showing signs of one? This is very confusing...she has an affair, and you are worried about her red flags about you? That's messed up man.


This is a red flag....

"The big hurdle for us right now is passion or desire. She has absolutely no desire to touch me, hold my hand or anything. I thought of it makes her ill."


You need to find out what her EN's are, because from what I've learned at MB is that "Affection" is usually a top 5 EN for a woman. And if she isn't comfortable getting affection from you, and it is one of her EN's, then she is/will be getting it elsewhere.....that's what a red flag is.

What she meant was if after 6 months of recovery, as far as doing MB together, dating, and meeting the ENs she will allow me to meet, if after that she still will not let me touch her and she cant touch me. Then its a warning to her that she cannot love me again.

I have no idea what caused this sudden shift in attitude. We made love the day before she said she wanted a divorce, after that it was if I was a leper.

I specifically asked her about affection. That was one of her needs I did meet. But as of now she says she is getting it met by just loving on our kids more.

She wont admit it but I really think my weight is the biggest issue. She says it would make her shallow. Her mom if 400 lbs+ and she is afraid of that. My friends noticed her getting more and more vain recently before D-day. She complains about working with fat people. She was 114 lbs and has lost 10 more. She is so skinny her psychiatrist keeps asking her is she is anorexic.

I really believe she had a mental break down and just looking at me or the thought of making love to me freaks her out. It hard to envision a good recovery without her getting over this.

I am not a giant disgusting dude. Here is a pic of us and I am 30 lbs lighter now. She really needs some psychiatric healing in this area.

Pic

It should be a warning to you as well. My WstbxH initiated his best SF performance ever 2 days before asking for a divorce. I didn't discover the A until the following week. When I asked him about it, he said he was just giving it "one last chance" to decide what he wanted. It was a desperately wayward-ish thing to do, really. I believe he thought he was getting his "closure" from me.

I'd be highly suspicious that the A is still active in your case.

By all evidence the A has ended. My wife is actually talking about our future at this point.

She wants this to work, but is afraid passion will not come back or was never there. She doesn't want to "settle."

I am just having a hard time dealing with the fact that she cant touch me. I asked her if I could hold her hand the other night and she said no. We were having a good time, shes admitted that she is feeling better about things and having fun.

I haven't been able to hug, kiss, make love to, or hold my wifes hand in 6 weeks. Its driving me freaking crazy.

I don't understand it and she has no explanation for it.

As far as physical attractiveness we are opposite in that respect. I see heavier set women and think if they were nice Im sure they would make a great wife. Whereas a big part of her EA was about his fit appearance.

This is going to be a hard hurdle to overcome. She hasnt come out and said it but from what I can tell she hasnt been physically attracted to me in a long time. I have been withdrawing Love Units almost our whole marriage not even knowing it. I played College Football when we met, after we were married I stopped playing but kept eating and I put on 50 lbs and have had that 50 lbs since then.

I wish I would have found MB long ago and known that I was withdrawing love units. It would have drastically changed my attitude toward my weight. I always knew it was a problem, but I never knew it was making my wife not love me.

Can we make a rule against posting pictures? No offense Red, but placing faces to your story makes me all sissified and blubbery.

I hope she can see through her fog and come to appreciate how much you love her!

NP, just thought it was relevant.

If she allows herself to touch you or to let you touch her, her feelings for you will resurface. This is what she doesn't want right now (feelings for you).

Continue with having the good times with her and let her come to you. Meet her needs for recreational companionship, domestic support (help around the house, havoing fun with the kids and her, ...BTW, affection needs can be met without touching, etc.

Don't bring up her feelings or talk of the relationship at this time. Talking of the R only magnifies what she thinks she doesn't feel and can't get back.

In other words, go in through the back door, not full frontal.

Oh, I forgot to add, great pic. You're a good looking dude and she is a neat looking lady. Hang in there.

Thank you for the reply. I think that is one of my problems I cant stop talking about the relationship, because it is all I think about. And I see frustration in her when I talk about it.

As this point would it be considered an LB?

We have been doing well with the Rec Companionship..going on dates, working out, swimming, it just doesn't seem to be helping so I am frustrated.

Ive been helping with everything in the house, and my relationship with the kids has gotten a lot better and she admits to that.

I know I just need to stick with it but I am losing faith because there is no reciprocation.

I need to just be fun and have fun with her and the kids.

What are the best ways to show affection without touching?

Hi BFRH!


This is so very typical at this stage. Pouting, dragging her feet, talking about "settling" etc. It's all part of the foggy post-wayward yuck-fest. Keep doing what you are doing and ignore it. If she really wanted to leave, she would have left by now.

Make sure you aren't whiny and needy- you need to remain strong while showing her you love her and can work through this. It is a delicate balancing act, but what she needs to know is that-while you ARE in this 100%, the door is always open for her to leave. You'll go on and find love again without her, etc (this is shown through body language, and short, non-threatening comments, etc). Noone is making her stay, KWIM? This will create more inner conflict on her part, and is what your goal should be right now. The more conflict she has, the more reality will settle in and she will come to realize that the feelings she is experiencing right now will subside and the emotional connection she once felt with you will return. But, you MUST remain confident in yourself. You must SHOW that you KNOW your worth as a man. Some of this may feel like acting, since you have been dealt a huge blow to your M, your ego, your self-esteem, etc... but you must "fake it till you make it" for a while.

Just don't let the remarks about settling and so forth eat away at your soul. She will be mortified at her ignorance when the fog clears, and will go about making up for it at that point. Until then, though, it's up to you to smile, be a good dad and husband, grit your teeth, and give her a little more time to de-fog and realize what a mess she has made.

I do caution you, though...MAKE SURE THERE IS NO CONTACT!!!!! A sudden, drastic change in "temperature" is a big red flag for a BS. Especially at this stage when she is desperate to replace the "high" of the A. KEEP SNOOPING! If you can confirm NC, though, I would also say that after a few more weeks of this, something's gotta give. She needs to pull her head out and start pulling her weight in recovery or you will be forced to draw a line in the sand. Most times this DOES need to happen...but a good Plan A and a serious show of confidence on your part MUST come first!

TY for the reply. I really need to up the confidence. Sometimes I find my self being a puppy dog at her side, helpless with out her. It pisses me off and annoys her. And I think part of the reason I do that is for some sort of reaction for her.

I need to continue doing what I know is right. Ignore her mean comments and pouty demeanor and keep soldiering on.

I need to not worry about a reaction from her. Which sucks cuz thats the one and only thing I want right now is her freaking attention and affection.

Am I wussing out for letting her have the bed??

I don't think letting her have the bed would be wussing out. It is an act of kindness, IMHO. Others might disagree.

I do agree with LaLa in the confidence and that you must show a good Plan A. It's the first step and the most important. And then if something doesn't give, you have to reevalute and start planning for B perhaps. Harley says men can do three to six months of Plan A. And since you have decided to go this route, make it an exemplary one.

Plan A is first and foremost about you. It is where you become strong. It's about really looking at yourself and any changes you need to make in self-improvement and how you relate to your wife. Notice I did not say wayward wife. Keeping your real non-wayward wife in mind, not this alien one.

Have you read Ark's be the lighthouse?


Yes, I believe to keep bringing up the R would be a difinite lb at this point.

Let her bring it up. And then when she does, only listen. Say as little as possible except to answer any questions. BE A GREAT LISTENER.

If she says things like "I know I can never get the passion back" Say "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I do feel passion for you".

If she says "You will never be able to forget" You say "I'm stronger and more forgiving than you know"

If she says "The OM made me feel so alive and special and exciting" You say "Yes, I can understand that a new person might be able to bring out those types of feelings, and I'd like for you to feel that way with me again, and me with you"

See, you are talking to her as someone who cares about her feelings, but without begging, pleading, demanding.

How do you show affection without touching? With your voice, your eyes, your words, your actions.

When she walks by, don't start pleading with her to talk to you, just say something like "Ummm, you smell nice" and maybe glance up and smile then reconcentrate on what you were doing.

When she does or says something really sweet to the kids you could say "you have always been such a good mom". Then just look away and keep doing what you were doing.

See, it's about being there, but being a little bit mysterious. Always leave them wanting more.

Just like when you were dating them.

To me, that is Plan A.

Expect no particular reaction. And act, don't react.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Red

The best advice I CAN give is ask advice from FWW. If THEY say how your wife is acting is normal or suspicious or fair or cruel, I would listen to THEM and listen HARD.

To find out something you got to those with experience. THe actions of WW and FWW are REMARKABLY similar. Its really amazing. ANd they all thought at the time that they were so unique in their feelings, circumstances and actions. ANd they it turns out its just a bunch of re runs.

We can all GUESS. These girls KNOW.

You really need to look at what you have described as your own behavior, used to initiate a reaction.

This is one thing you really need to stop. If it pisses her off and annoys her...DON'T DO IT. It is not the type of reaction you want, right? Not a good reaction and not what you want.

Plan A is all about attracting the WS back to you. Not about bad behavioral patterns used to get a response even if the response is negative.

Thank you all for the replies. Yeah I am getting into the mindset of work on myself first, treat her kindly, be a better Dad.

I sent her a funny text message while she is at work tonight. Funny quote from a movie we watched last night.

She never replies, but I know she sees them and smiles. In the past when she would get home from work I was almost immediately ask her if she got it. I need to stop that.

When she gets home I will ask her how work went and leave it at that.

One of my big confusions is that one of the things she says she needs is to be dated and pursued. She says I never did that before. But I dont think she is ready for a full on pursuing like I would as if we were dating.

So I try to show her a lot of attention but I think it is smothering her. I need to stick to simple dates, flowers, short phone calls asking how its going, and cute text messages.

And all that not expecting any reaction. Tall order but I just need to repeat that to myself and read your replies daily.

Thank you for you help and I will probably be writing often for encouragement.

The biggest reason I think she is refusing physical contact is from what was said earlier "It will stir emotions in her"

She has told me her biggest fear is that the changes wont be permanent, especially the weight loss. I have lost in the past then gained it back. This time hopefully God willing and with hard work it will be permanent.

So I think she is waiting for an physical interaction until she feels I have really changed. Who knows how long that will be.

Yeah but I would def like to hear from so FWWs about what they believe her motives are for no physical interaction.

No. What is it?

I have been reading NoNames thread. Ours seem very similar. One thing I realized is the confidence and courage I need to gain to set boundaries and expectations.

I was always afraid to bring up the EA in MC because of her reaction. I cannot be afraid of that anymore. I don't think there is really anything more about the EA to discuss other than the proper steps that need to be taken.

In our next session I am going to lay it out. To start recovery we need NC letter, I need her email password, and she needs to erase his number off her cell phone.

And in recovery, we need to read all MB concepts together, fill our questionnaires, and give each other 15 hours per week undivided.

After prayer this morning I realized where my greatest source of confidence needs to come from, God. I need to have the confidence from knowing He is in control. That He can be glorified through this regardless the outcome. When I keep that in mind I worry less and know that I will be less "puppy dog-ish."

My courage comes from knowing as the man of the house this is what I need to do to protect it. This OM was an intruder. I need to cut it off and stop it to save my family.