6years,

You are not stupid. You are frozen in time. You froze at 10 years ago. You didn't freeze at periods earlier when you were in fact happy and in love. She may have frozen in this time period but something happened to thaw her out.

Your MIL's comments should make you realize that your efforts have been recognized. You should be proud. And yes get those flowers to your MIL SOOOOOON.

Here is my point, you still don't know why your W asked her mother this question. You still don't know why she did not see her behavior as harmful to the family. You still don't know why, her mother simply saying that she was not a good W made her change when for years such feedback was clear but ignored.

You need to understand this, and more importantly so does she.

6years, I know this stuff is hard on you, and I know this sort of seems as if your W came back after being in a coma for a decade or so, during which time you sort of accomodated, adjusted your life, made your plans and were proceeding along, happily detached from this form in a coma. But, she is awake now it seems and this is a hard adjustment for you to make. However, I would counsel you to recall it took you 10 years to get to this point, and you will not change around in a few months. It can happen that you have the chance to be married now and in the future to the woman you did love and marry.

You might want to also talk with your MIL about her take on what has changed. She may know or see things that neither of us see.

It is time to gather data my friend, not make plans. Get the data, and then address a plan.

God Bless,

JL

I think this bears repeating along with the line about your WW throwing a monkey wrench into your 6 year plan.

My objective was to hold out as long as possible waiting to see if my WH would become the man I married, but the new and improved version. Husband V2.0 is more committed to the family and protection of his affair proof marriage.

I may be waaaaay off base here...but humor me. What if you had a gleam in your eye thinking of serving you WW with divorce papers at your youngest child's high school graduation. Now that she has changed her tune and you may see a small glimmer of hope for reconciliation, you may not get your revenge.

Now, I am NOT saying anything wrong with that. I think maybe you had made up your mind and this may all be a little less fireworks than you were looking forward to. You have what may be, a repenant FWW, that is best case scenario around here. (Maybe we don't set our standards high enough LOL), but we work with what we have.

No, you will never have a marriage unmarred by adultery, you knew that 10 years ago.

Really, what truth do you have now that you didn't know last year? You knew of the affair-correct? All it seems that you know is that your wife may truly feel real affection for you-that is new news.

Last year, you thought you had 7 more years of your "sentence" (self-imposed) with a woman who didn't really care. Now, you have 6 years left and she might actually give a d@mn.

Out of curiousity, my imagination is usually worse than reality. Did the letters you read shock you? Was it worse than you imagined?

I am glad that you asked her what made her change. That is important info.

Do you think she knows how much you were hurting? Could she think that since you sat on the info for ten years that you had already processed the info? Does she know how fresh the wound is?

I just reread my post and I think it sounds cold and heartless. I don't know how to change that-I really do have empathy for your situation.

If I can respectfully make a suggestion, call and make the appointment, and then invite your wife to join you and tell her the time.

Healing is way more satisfying than revenge, but it doesn't come without a lot of work.

I was just catching up with your posts from the past few days, and wanted to say that you definately need to tell her that you wnat to hear the actual words "I'm sorry" Because for me (and perhaps for her) saying I'm sorry can not possilby make up for all of this, and may even be taken as a trivial comment.
example:
If your car is parked next to mine, and I accidentally bump your door with mine, then I will instantly say "I'm sorry"
If I scratch the door, I will say "Om my gosh! I am so sorry!! please, call my insurance agent"
If I run over your son and kill him, then somehow sorry just sounds way too trivial to me. you may be expecting me to say "I'm sorry". But in my mind, I am thinking that you would just be insulted if I tried to say something so trivial.

Just a thought.


Personally, no. I had a few moments, in the very beginning, when my WxH was living with his trampy OW, where I would feel how unfair it was. He was living this relaxed, care free life. I was single mom to two teennage boys.

But the "unfairness" did not last long for me. Because I like myself. At the end of the day, I can sleep with myself. I have made mistakes in my life, and I have done some bad things, but for the most part I am ok with my past. I am so glad that I am on this side of the equation. I can not even imagine how bad I would feel if I had been on the other side. Honestly, would you want to be in your wifes shoes right now? Her own Mom knows about her A, and told her that she was not being a good wife! I can not imagine how much that hurt. she will carry the memory with her, for the rest of her life, that she betrayed her H and children. For ever she will recall that. Honestly, would you rather switch places with her, in order to be on the side of "fairness".

That is why you will not have an A, or carry on conversations with other women (Please!!!). Be VERY very careful right now. You are in the most vulnerable position you have ever been in your entire life. A woman could tell you that you have a nice smile right now, and BOOM you could end up in an EA. And you would be able to justify it with all of the excuses "I am leaving anyway, I am only here for the kids, she cheated on me first, etc" But do not do that! You would only find yourself feeling shamed later. You do not need to add shame to your list of negative emotions.

Frankly, I don;t even know your W, or you, but I beleive that she cares about yur feelings. Look at how she cries when she sees your pain. I don;t understand why you don;t believe her about this? Why would she say tath she caes, if she doesn't?


Um, so what?

Why do you contiue to withold the truth from her? I truly do not understand that part.

You say that you do not love her, heck you don't even like her very much, and you plan to leave in 6 years anyway. Why do you insist on witholding the truth, walking lightly around her, and watching every thing you say or do, in order to keep her there?

(by the way - personally, I do not think she would leave. I think she would be very hurt, but at least she would know how bad it is)

Wof5, Jean, Crysalis, JL;

I'm always saying this but thanks for trying to help me.

Jean, I knew times and dates of meetings. Now I know almost everything, specific details. What hurt most is how I was discussed, and how my feelings and my children were just discarded. The fact that he was basically impotent is just like salt in the wound.

JL,

I'm trying to word my questions for her tonight. I'm thinking of trying to bundle up a summary of where I am coming from. Would something like this help?

"E, 10 years ago you left our family. You cast me out and told me that you never loved me. I knew you had loved me once but couldn't see that at the time. Even when your lover dumped you, you never really came home. You were distant, you spent 3 nights a week out with friends and weekends away to recover. I didn't say stop because you were already gone to me and I was willing to take what I could for the kids. In June, you decided to come home and try to be a W and mom again. I need to know why you are doing this? I feel like we have been D for 10 years and you are now asking me to take you back. Why should I do that? I need real reasons. I need you to say you are sorry, over and over until I feel it. I need you to help me feel safe to let you back in. I was able to suppress all the hurt and rage because you were gone to me. I am going to have to live it all over again if I take you back. Convince me to do it, try to make me love you again.

I know you are hurting too, and I am usually there for you. I'll try to be there now because I am still you H. I'm here for sure until the kids are grown, I can't promise you the rest of my life like when we were married you threw that away. If you want me back for good take advantage of this chance.

Gabe"


When I reread my own words, I wonder why I am fighting this at all. WOF5 is right she has really been gone all along, I don't have much to lose by just putting all my cards on the table.

WOF5,

It is too new for me to believe she cares. You are right about giving the truth. I'm trying to bundle it all up so she can understand my perspective. It is not as simple as you have 5 years, 8 months to fix it or I am gone.

I do like the person she has been the last 3 months, but I don;t know if that is here to stay.


Thanks for the warning about the A's. I know I am vulnerable but it helps to hear it.

6years,

I like your approach alot. Use it.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thanks, I'm off to home for dinner and then I'm going to do it. I'm going to print it out and let her read it. For the first time in this whole thing I felt like I was going to cry when I reread what I wrote. I'm not sure she will have the reasons at hand but I will suggest the MB counselors.

Wow, I like it a lot.

You are admirable and honorable.

I like this approach. Open, honest, and straight from the heart.


Um, excuse me! I didn't say that!

This is a good example of how one person can say (type) something that can be taken two differnt ways.

What I intended to say (but I was beating around the bush) is that there is some reason why you do not want her to leave. There is somthing there - perhaps it isn't love just yet - but for some reason - you don't want her to go.

This is why you need to speak open, honest, and from your heart with her. And don't be afraid to ask for clarification from her! When she says "I care about your feelings" go ahead and ask her "Why? And what does that mean? And what are you planning to do to proetect them?"

Do not assume anything.
Ask probing questions.

I gave her the note, I sat with her while she read it. She said she needed to think and asked if I would still do the emotional needs questionnaire. I agreed to do it. Then she said "I AM sorry." then she wanted time to sit and think. I'm doing the survey, it looks like I'm pretty needy right now.

She gave me her survey, affection, attractive spouse, financial and SF (I was surprised about this one) were the top four and she gave me a 3 on all of them. The only place where I got a 0 was admiration, but it was last on her list. I should probably have gotten a lower score on honesty/openness but she marked between 2 and 3. I also got a 2 -3 on domestic support but really I have earned about a 4.

I still feel like I need to go beat someone, I should have gone to the gym even though I am sore.

How does she rank domestic support? I am guessing you rank it high-- have a big need for that from her, and she hasn't given it-- and she ranks it low. But you give yourself a lot of credit for meeting her need because it was YOUR need.

DS was one of my WH's big needs and one of my big failures.

The concept is to understand what you each need MOST from the other, and work on those needs in the way the other person wants them to be met. "I'd love it if ....." thinking.

I'm having trouble putting an exact ranking because I'm missing on so many of them for so long. But you are right that I put it high and she put it low. And right now she gets a -2 to -3.

I'm feeling like a jerk right now. I somehow found my way to meeting all of her important needs without feeling any love for her. I'm not saying she has not been horrible but I can finally see why WOF5 thought I was after revenge.

Maybe her reaction to the letter will tell me something, but I am guessing that I'll just have to wait to get that. She is extremely upset right now. I offered to sit with her, but she said "How can you even look at me? I know I've hurt you and that you don't love me. Give me some time to think."

So I guess we both get sometime to think.

Your response might go something like,

"neither of us can rely on our feelings right now, but we have too much in to this to throw it away without giving it an honest try. I have heard that the MB plans can help people fall in love again when it seems hopeless. I am willing to try and see what the results are. Are you willing to try?"

Oh, and you don't feel love because she didn't meet your important needs. She may have been ignorant and foolish. She may very much want to change now.

Chrysalis,
.
I am here for the next 6 years, and I will do the MB stuff. Right now, I don't love her and I'm afraid if I do that she will hurt me again. I do not trust her. It seems like alot to overcome. Even after all of that I'm not sure I can forgive her.

It is normal to feel what you are feeling, and it can get better if you and she do the work.