Every red car that passes us, every pony tail on a man, every hawaiian shirt... every single thing reminds both my H and me of the OM. It never ends. The OM was completely and totally different from my H, who is tall, lean and very clean cut. He hates the OM for obvious reasons, but would have disliked him anyway because he has little respect for the perpetual vacation mentality of the OM (which, of course, was part of what attracted me - go figure). <P>Let me give an example: today we (my H and I) went shopping for food. We went to Vons. We shop there for two reasons: it's a nice clean store, it's in the opposite direction of the OM's house - but it's pretty expensive. The only other market that would be less expensive is Stater Bros. which is one block away from the OM's house, and that's where he shops. All that to say this: we get to the checkout and it is expensive... way more expensive than the other market would have been. So we get into an argument about the expense, my H bites his nails all the way home, I'm nearly in tears. All over the food shopping. NO! Not actually over the food shopping, but over the fact that I cheated and now we can't go where we want to go. Before you all say to just go where we want, this is a small town. Too small, waaaay to small. I see him (the OM), on average, three times a week away from the job. Driving down street, at the Cable company, in Target (the only one within 20 miles). <P>Do you understand why I hate my life right now?<P>My H and I are trying, we really are. He sent me flowers yesterday and I bought him a beautiful card last week, just because. There are little tiny moments of happiness, although my H will tell you they aren't THAT happy, just not UNhappy.<P>On top of that, we had a HUGE incident with our disabled son that ended up as a police matter - BIG mess. <P>Very early this morning, there was a major earthquake felt from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. We are within that range and were bounced out of bed - big time! When things settled down and we went back to bed I thought, god, how would I do this without my H? I need to know that my entire family is okay... <P>I want to be happy with him, he wants to be happy with me. With all this wanting to be happy, WHY CAN'T WE GET THIS TO WORK?<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hi Sheryl-<P>Might I take a guess at what is going on in your life? I think you and H are trying to hard-wanting things to change too fast. While doing this you are always consious of what is behind all the wanting. Am I making sense? I think you do need to go shop where you normally would, do the things you did before the affair. If you can tell yourself that the OM doesn't exist then he will cease to exist. I am not a betrayer-I am the betrayed. But we also live in a very very very tiny town-2000 population. We have just one grocery store-kids play sports in same places-ao on and so forth. I came out of the grocerys tore one day with my kids and what do I see but a damn white jetta in the parking lot-with a person in it. Once I finally got my gorceries in my trunk and got us in the car viola-she pops out of her car and strusts into the store. She was obviously waiting for me to leave-she must have seen my car. Know what? I don't care anymore. I live here too-in fact I was basically born and raised here-mine before it was hers ya know? But in any case-if you can go about a more "normal" life style I think you will have less on your minds. I am not saying I don't scan parking lots or freak when I pass a white jetta on the road. But what I am saying is she screwed me over big time by having an affair with my H-I too want to get back to a decent happy life. I have found that by doing things that wre once routine I seem to be more at peace. when I would dwell on "what if she is there" I was jumpy and cranky. Try it and let me know. It really sounds as though you and H are trying-and I am sure with that happening you two can overcome all obstacles.<P>Prayers and best wishes for a quick recovery!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Thank you heartache,<P>Yes, we are trying too hard... everyone says so. But again, BOTH of us have to be on the same page. I go along trying to live like this never happened and then get slapped in the face with my H's hurt and anger (which I understand because I've been betrayed too). Or he's doing okay, but I'm having a bad day at work facing the OM - WHICH I HATE WITH A PASSION!!!!! Thing is, it just seems like we're never in sinc! <P>I appreciate your response. I usually don't write on the weekend since a lot of folks don't hang out here except during the week at work (which is a real crack up - if only our employers KNEW? NO! That's not good, is it?).<P>Anyway, thank you for listening and caring enough to write. I will talk to my H about all this... <P>It is SO HARD!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 16, 1999).]

Sheryl-<P>LOL-i read your response to my response and little do you know but you give me some vital information. Here I am giving you advice and you fed me a bit of some yerself I am not being real kind to my H most the time-I never let an opportunity pass to say something snide about his affair. So-thanks for a wake up call to me from you!!! Just make good choices and both of you will do fine-my promise <P>Hugs again<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Well... you're welcome! <P>I need to hear that I can be of value somewhere these days...<P>Thank you very much!<P>A big hug back at ya <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hi Sheryl, <BR> I don't know if you read my last post to you but if not... First let me say that I REALLY appreciate you for your courage to post THIS side of the story. You have encouraged me to have HOPE while my wife is in her mid-life crisis (remember the 60 yr. old guy with the missing teeth!!) You are a VERY special person.<BR> Anyway, here are some things that may help you. If I were you I would try and remember something really BAD about the OM and every time I thought of him THAT is what I would try and dwell on (how are his teeth? If you can't think of ANYTHING try this, this guy tried to steal another man's W!!! I'm sorry but HE DID. Remove yourself from the situation and think of how AWFUL that is!! Believe me, I think I've cried 10 times in my adult life and 100 times since my W left!! This is not a good man. "If he can do it WITH you, he can do it TO you" I'm not trying to give you guilt. <BR> And if I were your husband, ALL I would want to hear when IT came up is HOW MUCH I WAS LOVED and how the OM REALLY could have never filled my place in your heart. The more you say it the more you BOTH will start to believe it. I would want you to be able to go the other store. Eventually. Please be patient and don't give up. <BR> I have a feeling that God is helping others through you and if all was PERFECT you would be gone from here. I'll be praying for you both. Frank (darrt@prodigy.net) <BR>

Hey Frank,<P>Yes, I remember you, and thank you for your very kind words.<P>I KNOW what needs to be done, and I do try as hard as I can to do it. Some days I'm doing great, and the withdrawls are GONE and I couldn't love my H more. And then there are days - deep, dark, horrible days - when I feel the world spinning out of control around me... those days, I just want to run away from everyone. And, since I think you read my other post you'll remember this, but what happens next is I miss "the feeling" that came with the OM. My H can't muster that kind of feeling toward me no matter how much he tries because HE IS STILL SO HURT AND ANGRY. Yes, there is love there - THANK GOD - and yes, we are (thankfully) still together. But more days than not lately, I feel like we're not gonna make it. I hate the feeling.<P>BTW, I tell my H often how much I love him. I hold his hand, touch him, reach out for him. He, unfortunately, has a difficult time reciprocating. Very sad!<P>Thanks again Frank... you're a good guy.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

HI Again,<BR> Thanks for YOUR kind words. I hope you'll look for my posts and respond, I look forward to your comments.<BR> One more thing, I'm sure you're telling him you love him and are affectionate but from a "Guy's" perspective, I would need to hear about what a "Good Man" I was and IN VERY SMALL DOSES" How much MORE of a man I was than OM. We men have HUGE egos and I think that's what hurts the most during these things. I miss my W SOOOOOOOO much, but if we were "Just" seperated and there was no OM well, I wouldn't be CRAZY and hurt half the time. <BR> A little update on my situation for your input. My W calls me pretty much EVERY day but hides the fact that she's living with OM. (He went to the dentist the other day his W told me <BR> Two days ago I told my W that I knew she was living with OM and she tried to lie her way out of it. When I told her (gently) that I knew EVEN the day we spent 9 hours shopping at the mall together (when she got out of the car she actually told me she had a great time and kissed me goodnignt like a date, strange) She cried softly. What did that mean? <BR> She's also starting to appoligise for little things like when she doesn't call (never more than one day and only twice in 7 weeks) Anyway, she called my Mother two weeks ago and told her that we would work things out and not to worry. I worry because I was before our Son's wedding and maybe she did it so she could face her allthough she told my MIL this week. I over analyze everthing!! frank<P>------------------<BR>desperate

Sheryl, I am not going to say you guys are trying to hard ( I think I said that the last time ). <BR>I tend to agree with heartache. You cannot always avoid places where you might find the om forever. In a way that will be giving him some power where he has none. ( How can he be important enough to affect even the place where you shop? - see what I'm trying to say?)<BR>I know that it will be difficult at first, but I'm pretty sure you guys will be able to go trough that one. Even your H, I know he won't be jumping for joy at the sight of the *^^%$ om, but if he sees it in another way - you will be showing the low life how well you guys are doing and how your marriage is standing - maybe it will become easier. <BR>A long time ago... ( I just realized it really was a long time ago, 1 year ago ) I was invited to a wedding. Hubby seemed interested in me going although things were going trough ups and downs - affair was finished, but not really finished kind of thing -, and I wanted to go and finally meet his friends from work. There was one problem, most probably she had been invited as well, and since they were her friends, I would think she would go. I was divided between wanting to go, and not wanting to see her, or spend an evening somewhere where she was. I posted my question here, and the answers seemed to point the way:GO, show her you guys are doing fine. That she wasn't able to do enough damage to your marriage. SInce I already wanted to go, all that was writen made perfect sense to me. And I went. FUnny thing, I was so afraid of meeting her there, and she didn't even show up. I did meet her in other places since them, and instead of avoiding it, I always thought abot what I was told: show her that your marriages is still standing strong! After a while, I'm sure our meetings ( here and there, mostly by chance ) were bothering her more than me, or Hubby.<BR>I always say the same but it's important, do not give them more power than what they have. Sometimes we are the ones who creat all this power on the op side. By fearing them, or avoiding them, or just thinking about them. <P>Big hugs<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Frank,<P>I'm sorry for the stuff with your W, and god only knows what she's REALLY thinking. I will say this though: just like with everything else, I bet you do understand what she's thinking, if you really think about it. You know, like how we talked about your intuition. How your gut knows things, but sometimes doesn't want to admit it?? <P>The crying can mean anything from remorse, guilt, missing you, or feeling sad that it's over. The thing she said to your mother are VERY promising, I think.<P>You're doing great...<P>Kat,<P>Hello old friend... well, sorta old, and I don't mean age-wise, just wisdom-wise <P>Yes, I agree with what you're saying, and I will give that A LOT of thought.<P>Big Hugs <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

New_Be<P>Reading this post gave me an idea. Have you ever considered TRYING to be where OM is with you H? I know this sounds like throwing gasoline on the fire. But consider the following, if your H knew that you want the OM to see you with H as, shall we say, proof that you two are back together. It might have several positive effects. One the OM will begin to understand that you and H are really going to make it work. Two, it means that you are proud to be seen with your H, in fact you are showing off H to OM. Rubbing OM's nose in it so to speak. I know this sounds like twisted logic, but it comes under the category of : the best defense is a good offense. <P>I am not trying to get your H in to a fight or anything, but if you two thought about the triggers as a team problem for both of you maybe you could come up with some really creative solutions. I am sure that to some extent it would be uncomfortable at first, but if you came to not fear meeting OM, with H present it might help both of you.<P>I know this sounds strange but rattle it around for awhile, you might be come up with something even better.<P><BR>God Bless You and Your Family<P>In a sense you and H are in a battle to remove as many triggers as possible. Time surely helps but somestimes so does something proactive if you know what I mean?

Funny you would say that Just Learning, because yesterday, when my H sent me flowers, they were delivered at the front desk where - you guessed it - the OM works. His attitude was definately a little more sedate for the rest of the day. He said something like, "you sure are getting a lot of flowers lately" which is true, considering my H has either sent or brought me flowers once every six weeks or so since discovery - and only once in the 18 yrs. before that, so..... we are sending a message. And my H is beautiful, tall, very manly. The OM is more like the soft teddy bear type, so he's a bit intimidated anyway. I understand what you're saying and have actually been implimenting it already. <P>Great minds and all that, huh? <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

New_Be<P>Have you ever thought of telling your H about the OM response? That you are proud to be with him and show him off so to speak? A little ego boost would not hurt anyone. <P>I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you had to sneak around with OM while you are proud to be with your H. If he knew you thought of him in those terms it might also begin to diffuse some of the anger.<P>I not suggesting lying to him, but much of his anger probably has to do with the hurt, and the feeling of really not measuring up to the OM in your mind. Men have egos and women have feelings, but when you stand back they are really the same thing just expressed differently. You have been in both places and you even stated that you really did not forgive your H. What would it have taken to have you forgive him when he messed up? <P>It works both ways. You two will make it, that much seems certain. Anyone reading your posts can see that you two love each other. Start to control your situation rather than let it control you. That is why I suggested the proactive role. In fact if you back off and look at Harley's whole method, it is a really proactive approach to repair. The determination of needs, is a method for getting the betrayed and betrayer alike to do something rather than sit there feeling sorry for themselves and angry at the spouse.<P>Better quit some much could be said. However most of it you already know. The trouble with this board is that one gets to the point that you really do want to see situations like yours work out especially when it appears that both parties are really trying.<P>Good Luck and God Bless

NB,<BR>I've been following your posts with interest because I feel are situations are similar. I, too, am a betrayed and a betrayer. Like you, I hate what i did to my H with all my heart. (I read your post about Sheryl cancer). The difference between our situations is that I am the betrayed at this time. My betrayal was 14 years ago and my H carried around anger, resentment and unforgiveness all those years (which I've only recently discoverd) while all the time making like everything was alright. If you read my profile, you will see that he met a girl 4 years after I betrayed him, started an emotional affair with her, I discovered it. He said he would end it. I thought he did. Nine years later, he confesses he was never able to get her out of his mind-though he claims he did stop seeing her when he told me he would. She's completely out of the picture-has been for almost four years because she died. I only found out about his continued obsession with her nine months ago and the pain has been devastating.<P>Like you and your H, we are trying to rebuild. He says he wants the marriage, wants to love me, wants us to be happy with each other It is soooo difficult. When he told me nine months ago, he did not even know if he wanted the marriage, and said the love he felt was not like that for a wife. It was all very hurtful. Even with the postives, however, I still have so many days when I wonder if we are going to make it. It seems whenever I discuss it now, the gap widens between us. Maybe there is something to what the others have said about going on with your life as if nothing has happened. As the betrayed with it fresh in my mind, I can understand how your H may be having a hard time with his anger and resentment. I might be okay one hour, then the next, boom! Something will triggar a thought and I feel so incrediably berayed, angry and hurt-so much that I feel like I'm losing my mind. I probably love bust at least two to three times a week-I know I shouldn't. I just don't know how to let go of the past, how not to let the thought her and him affect everything I do in the present. Being betrayed is the most excruciating pain I've ever felt (although I'd rather be the betrayed than the betrayer). Well, this post is pretty long, so I'll close for now. I just wanted to respond to you and tell you I can relate to what you are going through. Hang in there. Let me know if I can help in any way.<P>hurtingwife <BR>

Just Learning,<P>Yes, I did that! I gushed all over my H to the OM and everyone else in the office and told my H that I did it. Also, being a Friday, the OM and I were once again alone and able to have a chat. Luckily the flowers had come, and I was feeling much stronger than usual. He finally said, "so what we need to say to each other is that it will NEVER happen between us, right?" (Bells and whistles sounding in the backround) BINGO! But I told him that it had better mean that he also didn't: look at me, leer at me, give me the puppy-dog eyes... that he had to mean this because it's too hard for me to work there like this. He's worried that I'm gonna quit and it will be his fault. I told him that it has nothing to do with him, but with me and how I'm dealing with it all. I HATE WORKING THERE with him. I wish HE'D go, but he won't. I told him I was thinking of quitting. He, being the selfish man he is, is worried about how he'll feel if I go, that he'll feel "like sh*t". I am so disguisted by his attitude, yet can be drawn in too easily still - hence me telling him to back up his words with his eye-contact.<P>Gosh, am I making any sense?<P>Hurting Wife,<P>How well I know what you're saying. I did take a long, long, long time to forgive. I did fall completely back in love with my H within maybe 2 years of discovery. But my H also had one last incident after the original two. I don't want to get back into it, but lets just say he broke my heart for one last time for the road in 1988. That added to the healing time. But I did heal, and you will too. It just takes time. I've been asked if my affair was to hurt him. I bet you wonder that one too. For me, no, it wasn't, but I'm not gonna say that I didn't think to myself, "well, he did this"... very stupid. <P>Thanks both of you for your responses <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 17, 1999).]

Hey, NB. I read your post when you started it, but with live-in company all week, wanted to take some time before I answered you. What a madhouse this week has been - anniversary, company, more on the job loss...<P>How are you feeling today? Listen, you know how good you've been doing. You know how good a person you really are. I agree w/ JL about NOT trying to avoid this guy. Stand tall. It will give your hubby strength and confidence as well. I know Hubby hurts and it shows. YOU know that as you continue to show him he is important to you that he will start to let go of some of that. His heart and his ego is bruised and must heal. It will fade. You know it will. This stuff takes time - lots and lots of time. But you guys have what it takes to make it happen.<P>Now, listen - you have GOT to start to forgive yourself. You made a mistake - granted it was a biggie, but it's time to stop beating yourself up. I'm not saying just blow it off, like some seem to do, but you're not that kind of person. I mean, you know I read all your posts. You are good and kind and loving and repentant and you are trying so hard. Give yourself some credit, woman! It's doubly hard on you because you have to work w/ this guy. You're doing ok. Don't rush it. This is big stuff and you can't blink and make everything right. All you can do is try your best. And never give up.<P>Remember that shelf you guys are always telling me about - that stupid, over-cluttered about to crash down on my head shelf???? Get it organized. Take those feelings and pick one little one and work all week (or two or three) to change the way YOU think about it. Leave the rest alone. Start with the little things, success with them will give you power to handle the big ones. You CAN do this - both of you can. I know you have it in you. Try to desensitize yourself to some of the little triggers - one by one. You can do it.<P>Look how far you have already come. Look how much you have already grown. Baby steps - isn't that what you guys always tell me. Give yourself credit (and hubby too - we both know his is a long hard road as well) for every baby step you take. You'll both be running soon, I promise.<P>Hang in there. I'm counting on you. I know you can do it. IT WILL WORK!!!<P>Lori <P>

Hi Lori,<P>Thank you for taking the time to thoughfully respond - as always.<P>I don't know how to forgive myself. I guess that's the biggest problem. I have done everything, from prayer (thank GOD HE forgives, and I believe God has forgiven me) to meditation, to journaling, to talking to myself ("You love H, you love H" "You do not love OM, you do not love OM") and everything in between. I SWEAR, I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT!<P>What do I do?<P>One day I KNOW we'll make it, and the next day I KNOW we won't. I can't imagine my life without him, yet I am angry when I feel like I have to do the work. There is resentment because I had to do "the work" when he cheated and now I have to do "the work" when I cheated. I KNOW I'm having a problem here, that I sound like a baby, that I am making a problem. I can't seem to stop it. <P>Any suggestions would be appreciated because my mind seems to be in a muddle. I'm trying as hard as I can, but it isn't helping. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

You don't sound like a baby - you sound tired. We all know what that's like. <P>Let's see - I can talk the talk, but I don't walk the walk too well. <P>OK, try this. When I left drug-addicted wife-beating H#1, I was a mess. Went to counseling for a long time. He was cool and gave me this silly little exercise that really actually made a difference.<P>Today. Sit down and write down 10 things you really like about yourself and 10 things you really like about H (or your marriage or whatever, but don't leave out the self part.) Minimum - every morning and every night for one month, get somewhere quiet and read the list to yourself - out loud. He said reading silently didn't work as well. Writing the lists makes you think. Reading them reinforces them through your eyes (one way to get to your brain), speaking them engages another part of your brain to form the words and hearing them, yet another. In effect, you're retraining yourself and the way you think about you. Sorta like meditation, but it's imperative that you use all three (reading, speaking and hearing) to make it work. I gotta be honest (I could only think of 5 things I liked about myself at that time - probably couldn't come up w/ that many now - LOL), but the silly little thing worked! Had more confidence at the end of the month and was actually able to complete my list! On bad days, he suggested adding a few more times each day. Modify it as you need to, but be sure to give it the time it deserves to work.<P>Ok, I ALWAYS talk too much here- I'm working on that. Take a break, give yourself a break. The resentment is normal and justified. Time (Man I hate that word!!!) will help. So will your attitude, your determination and your strength. And I know you've got what it takes.<P>Lori

Lori,<P>Okay, I'll try it and let you know how it works for me.<P>You're a sweetie! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

NB,<BR>I agree with the idea of not avoiding the OM. You have no reason to have to avoid him. You are a married couple, with nothing to hide. <P>I would give anything to run into the OW when my H and I are out together. I would love to have her see us as we really are,,,a team. Unfortunately, we live in a big city (that also felt the earthquake!!) and the chances of just happening into her are very slim. I want her to see that my H is proud to be with me, that we are happy and doing wonderfully without her in our life. And I am the betrayed. Perhaps your H feels the same. <P>And yes, even 21 months into recovery, there are many triggers that bring up the pain. Especially today, it seems that every talk show, every movie, every newscast, has some reference to infidelity. It's hard. There's no question about that. But we have to seriously look at the alternative. Is it worth it? I think so. It has been for us.