Hi ears. Things went pretty well after that. He tried pretty hard to be nice, and affectionate. No complaints about anyone or anything, which was weird. I left out the house sale papers that he asked for, but he never touched them.

I know I said I would back off but I just can't. All we need is 3 dollar amounts and 2 estimations of hours of labor, and I can get the returns finished, signed, and in the mail before he goes to China Tuesday. So I'm going to email him and ask about it today. Then I'll back off, lol.

A funny thing happened last night, though. I was on here, but I kind of don't want him to see me writing on here, even if it's for someone else's thread, so that he doesn't use that against me as well. So he walked by me and I instinctively closed the laptop so he couldn't see what site I was on; I've never done that before, don't know why I did. But apparently he noticed, and his radar must have gone off, especially after the day's events. Because another time, he made a point of coming up behind me and trying to see what I was doing. (I was typing) I was actually giving Jayne advice about getting her hand looked at, so there was nothing to see. But it was a very weird experience, to have him care what I was doing for a change.

I'm sure he was just scared I was trashing him, but it was a weird feeling anyway. I guess that's because 95% of his time is wrapped up around him.

My IC has asked me before if I want to leave. We're talking about it.

Cat - How are you doing with your emergency fund?

Are you in a situation where you have to account for all the money to him?

I hit the $1000 mark, and I'm adding $50 every two weeks.

No, he doesn't keep track of my money; never has.

Seeing how different he was last night made me realize that I created this monster, by never speaking my mind. I really stood my ground yesterday, and he really responded. Didn't get the work done I needed, but he tried really hard to be pleasant and make sure he didn't upset me.

So, like I always do, I go back to my original post. I'm miserable but I never tell him. And he has no idea, and he's getting all his needs met, so he has no idea I'm unhappy, so like EE says, it's not fair to assume he won't become the person I need him to be. All I have to do is tell him what I need. And use boundaries.

Yes, as I was trying to tell GG on his thread, we have these fears about confrontation, and they are often unfounded. I really think it's something that grows inside of us as a side effect of sorts from holding our emotions in. We're so used to keeping the peace, that we start to fear what will happen if we act differently.

Then we try it, and we're a bit surprised that the other person handles it better than we thought, that the world didn't cave in or explode. lol

I think as long as we're truthful and not mean or critical, there could be great benefit to it.

In Alanon, we are encouraged to find a sponsor, a mentor who is where we want to be. I have been blessed to have found some amazing ones, both IRL and here on the board. Like LovingAnyway, folks who don't back down from a challenge. You remember, cat, I asked you to be a mentor to me, too, because you were succeeding in some personal growth areas that I wanted to do well in too, how you identify difficult goals and move forward and get to them. Like how you are tackling the finances and the weight. And I like what I read about how you parent DD18. And I really appreciate the time that you took with me then, really helped me find my confidence that I was looking for in those areas. It felt so good to see that I can do that, too, identify goals and work towards them. Work is going so well for me. I had some learning curves and found that I DO have what it takes there.

I'm not saying this to flatter you, to try to make you feel a certain way today. I was just reading some old posts yesterday, and got a little overwhelmed in gratitude.

Okay, back to your thread I see a lot of external focus on your H this morning. Cat, you are so inspiring to me in what you share with me and others here on the board. I imagine you the same way in real life. I am thinking that if you spend more time thinking about what you are thinking and feeling, go back to that internal focus and identifying golas that you feel good about, that you might come away feeling inspired, too.

I am wondering cat, do you have an IRL mentor? What would you think about finding one?

And he has no idea, and he's getting all his needs met, so he has no idea I'm unhappy, so like EE says, it's not fair to assume he won't become the person I need him to be. All I have to do is tell him what I need. And use boundaries.

And last but not least, let go of the response!

::Nina doing a happy dance::

Oh my goodness, Cat! If you tackle this, the way that you've tackle the other stuff, WATCH OUT!

I have a friend who knows everything, but I don't work with her any more, and I hate visiting her. That's weird to say, but she's my friend who married at 40, still lives with her mom (never moved), and their house feels literally like a mausoleum. It's just creepy. And she won't drive to come see me. We email a bit. And she teaches D18 piano, so I see her every other weekend.

I do have another friend from my last job. We got along really well, and I love her. We always helped each other out. I think I'll start meeting with her. Thanks for the suggestion.

My update is that we've had 2 or 3 more discussions this weekend, where I told the truth about how I felt. He didn't like it, but we actually made a little progress as far as being able to talk about unpleasant things without him jumping down my throat. One was about his salary/bonus (his boss didn't pay him what he promised), and I kind of made it clear I think he's not doing what he should to get it resolved. Considering we both have less than $1000 in our respective bank accounts, it's getting pretty desperate. I apologized later for getting upset, said it wasn't my business what he did with his work, and he said, No, it IS your business, and we went on from there.

And this morning we were waiting for D18 to come down so I could take her to SAT testing, and she was running late, and he was mad at her, as usual, and said, in his usual mad tone, 'I thought you said you had to be there at 7:30" and I said 'Please don't do that, don't accuse me of doing wrong'. He said he wasn't and I said 'if you weren't trying to show me that you think I've done something wrong, you could have just said 'it's after 7, or you could have assumed I knew what I was doing and said nothing.'

And later he started in on D18's boyfriend yet again, and I calmly explained why what he said was an incorrect assumption and how bf actually was good about XYZ.

So I think I'm flexing my muscles a little, in not letting his opinion/decision be the only one for the whole family. I'm making sure to be affectionate, so he knows this isn't me saying I reject him. So far so good.

Oh, and he's downstairs finishing the taxes!

Wow, cat. There are no small changes. What do you think gave you the nudge to try this today?

WOW!!!!!


You really ARE powerful!!! I hope you feel it too!

Thanks. I'm feeling pretty good. We even had SF after I typed that and came downstairs, and he gave me a massage! And...I had interrupted my hanging up laundry to come in the bedroom at that time cos he called me in to look at something on the taxes, and afterward, I got dressed to go pick up D18 from SAT, and H was in the laundry room...get this...hanging up the laundry!

I have seen him do that twice in 30 years.

Maybe this is his version of the wife having to leave before the husband takes it all seriously. I've been quiet for so long that me actually showing displeasure with him was enough to scare him into caring.

That's incredible.

I'm so glad that your speaking up is giving you such positive reinforcement!

Cat, wow, I am so happy for you. It makes me think about what JL says, that your spouse really does want you to be happy.

Actions and intent are really interesting to me. I'd love to know what your H's intent was, why he decided to do differently. I asked my H, and he had changed his behavior two days before I'd told him what I had to tell him. He told me that he decided that he was done fighting. It felt really good to get that validation that his decision was not about me.

So here's my new dilemna. Sorry for the length. I think I may have talked earlier about how my D18 had done some questionable picture sending to a boy, that I found out accidentally. After that, I installed a keylogger just to make sure it wasn't getting out of control, and largely forgot about it. Well, she started dating this guy, who I just adore - smart, confident, wiseacre, driven, just the whole ball of wax. But because of the hurricane, they basically spent the first two weeks of their relationship together cos we had nothing else to do with no electricity; they got really close to each other. So last week she called and said they went to his house and he cooked dinner for her. For some reason, it got me a little uneasy, so I dug up the instructions and viewed her exchanges with him. Well, come to find out, they've been doing a little you know what. Just fooling around, cos she's made it abundantly clear no real SF until she graduates.

But she's almost completely clueless about that stuff, and he's...not. So I check, and she's writing to him about how wonderful 'it' was, talking about '3 times in one afternoon,'...you get the idea. I mean, she still thinks SF is gross, and that a guy's 'area' is even grosser. So I don't know what to think.

So she asked to go for a walk that afternoon, so I jumped on the chance, and I started asking her how far they'd gone. I had told her many times that I want her to come to me when she starts doing anything so I could walk her through it, and she said she would. But when I asked her, she said they'd done nothing. So I finally worked my way around that and we started talking about it. She kept saying how weird it was to be talking about it to me, no matter how close we are. And I said I just want to make sure you make no mistakes, don't get taken advantage of...basically, I determined that she had been 'faking' it for his sake, that they weren't doing anything that required taking clothes off, and that he was being a little too vigorous in the playing around (can't believe I'm saying this), and that it just hurt. So we talked about how the girl is supposed to help the guy by explaining how she's feeling.

And I took a chance and said that if she had decided to fake it to make him think she was reaching O, she might want to reconsider that for several reasons, and needs to talk about what works for her.

Bottom line, she's not comfortable talking to him that way. So I said then maybe that's a sign that it's too soon for you guys to be doing this, huh? You need to get to know him better before it goes this far. She was relieved to hear that, and she said that he had said he thought they were moving too fast, too. (THAT is great to hear!) So she said they're going to slow down and step back a little.

So...I want to back away now. I mean, her making out with him is fairly normal these days and it's not the end of the world, and I was doing things years earlier than her, and she's 18, so I have to start getting used to this. I hate that I spied on her. But I'm glad I did, because she was indeed getting in over her head. This is the first boy she has ever cared about; all the others were just friends who the two of them just decided to go ahead and go out cos there's nothing else to do, you know? But this guy is different, and she just may fall in love for the first time.

So do I uninstall the keylogger and have faith? Or do I keep checking occasionally to make sure he's not too good to be true and is taking her for a ride, so I can give her some more advice?

Cat, I think she's going to make mistakes, and that you can't really protect her from that. I think that the best thing that you could do for your DD in this is to speak up yourself, to share with her how hard that is, for you, how it makes you feel, and how you're doing it, anyway.

I agree. She doesn't have to think these discussions are any easier for you than they are for her. You can tell her that because she's got such a good head on her shoulders, you have a great deal of trust in her judgment. However, you also know that she has a lot to learn about men and that initiating conversation with her about these issues is something you feel is important and necessary between a mother and daughter.

I know you've discussed with her your fears of her possibly ending up in the same circumstance that you're in. That you want better for her. You can remind her that one split-second decision can change the course of her future forever and that she needs to remember that.

Cat...sorry to go off topic here, but a while back you mentioned a book or website for conversation topics with girls. What was that again? I thought it might be a good reference for my sister.

Editing to say...I wish my mother had been a little more like you, Cat. While she kept a better eye on us at certain stages of our teenage years, we didn't have as many in depth conversations as you're having with your daughter, and I wonder if my life might have been better if we had...She would often say "I trust your judgment" with the firm belief that if you set a precedence for your child, they will live up to it. However, in retrospect, I honestly don't feel that I had as much guidance as I should have in terms of relationships and furthering my education. My life might have been better had we had more talks about those things.

Cat, I wanted to add, that I don't mean to imply that your daughter is afraid to speak up for herself because of you. She is her own unique person, and does speak up in many areas, and you facilitated her going to IC. All that I'm saying is that as we grow, we will grow into new areas, difficult to navigate because we haven't been there before. How do we handle these unchartered waters? We can choose to be O&H and differentiate ourselves, or we can choose enmeshment, someone else's approval of us.

Thanks, guys. I was kind of afraid for bringing this up, given some people's opinions of my 'morals' around here. But above all, I'm pragmatic. Pretending it won't happen will only set the stage for problems, so I'd rather be proactive.

You're right. I think I will bring it up again and give her my side, why I'm doing it.

Soolee, I SO know what you're talking about. My mom went into a cave after my dad left when I was 12 (the absolute worst time for a dad to leave a daughter, btw), so I spent my teen years on my own. She always said 'I trust you!' and 'You know the right thing to do' when all along I was furious with her for doing that, for not setting boundaries for me, and for turning the other way.

If she had even had one or two conversations with me, who knows what a difference it would have made. I KNOW I wouldn't have given up a college scholarship for my POS fiance, who said he couldn't wait around for me, and at the time, I figured he was my only future.

TALK, TALK, TALK!

That newsletter I used to brag about went under; they don't even have the website up any more. But they do still have the initial website for Joe Kelley, who started it all. You might still find some good stuff there. Mostly about dads and daugthers, but still good stuff.

ears, I really don't understand what you're saying. Please elaborate?

???

Someone questions your morals? I'm confused! Surely not!

I just have a moment, I'd like to write something careful and thoughtful but here's something quick as opposed to nothing at all:

IMHO I'd keep the keylogger just in case she gets into big trouble, but that prolly won't happen. Then, I'd prolly try to not step in unless I saw her making a huge huge huge mistake... she needs to become her own person, able to make her own mistakes. I think it was you who was telling someone (me???) that kids need to have the confidence that they can make their own decisions; if parents always step in, that leads the kids to believe they are incapable of handling things themselves.

Or maybe I read that somewhere.

OTOH I just read what Soolee and ears say, about keeping the lines of communication open, and I can see the value in that also.

So I almost didn't post cus I can see both sides. But I do that a lot (refrain from posting) and thought I'd let you know I'm here and reading.

I wish I was half as good a mom as you.