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Hi all, I've been reading posts for a while now, but have yet to find anything like what I'm going through. I will start with a bit about myself. I am 34, H is 35, married 11 years, together 14, and have 4 children. It all started about a month ago, I saw a message on his msn from a girl saying that "this is what I'm talking about, you are pushing me away, you're too nice to say it, and goodbye." I found that strange. Then, about 2 weeks later, I was talking on his phone to my brother in law, and someone kept calling. He took the phone, yelled at them, then his tone of voice changed (I should mention that his native language is not English) and he was talking as if it was a male, saying, "why are you calling so many times when you know I have another line!!" his tone of voice changed, and he asked if there was a problem. I don't know why, but that made me feel weird about the whole call. Needless to say, I started to check his email everyday. About 4 days later, I found 5 emails from a girl that he had in the trash, but didn't completely delete. She was saying that she loves him, and begging him not to cancel something (nothing specific). She begged him to call her or email her. Of course I flipped out. I just couldn't understand it. He is always at home, never takes calls into another room or anything like that, treats me great. He said that she was a co-worker and that they would talk, but she developed feelings for him. He said he made a mistake by not cutting off all contact the minute she expressed feelings, but that it is nothing, he loves me, can't live without me and all that. He promised to delete her email, phone number and anything else. (which he did, I checked). My problem is, I can't help but wonder why she would say she loves him and all of that if nothing happened. H said that she wanted more, he told her he is happily married and to leave him alone. I sent her an email telling her to leave my husband and my marriage alone, no reply. What should I do? I believed him, and went back to life as normal, but still thought about it all the time so I installed mobilespy on his phone, 4 days ago (the day I installed it) I found out that he called her, then she sent him a message about how she wishes he could hug her and sit on his lap and watch tv, needless to say, I flipped out. I confronted him 2 days later, he denied everything, I told him I knew they had contact, then he admitted it, but said it was only to tell her to leave him alone. Before I didn't involve any outsiders, but this time was too much for me. I told him mom and his sister. They immediatly confronted him, he told them both that nothing was going on, they were just friends, he made a mistake, he loves me and blah blah blah. He said he never talked to her since I found out 2 weeks ago, until 4 days ago, but he knew I sent her emails telling her to leave my marriage alone. I said, do you expect me to believe you had no contact, then all of a sudden she calls you to tell you I sent her emails 2 weeks ago, THEN she sends a text about missing him? PLEASE!! How stupid does he think I am? I tried to call her, she didn't answer, the coward. So I sent her a message (background info; we live in a very conservative Arab country, she and my husband are both from this country, I am American) and I told her that I will ruin her reputation, her name, and all that stuff (which here, is a HUGE deal). She sent my husband another message telling him she was Downstairs (meaning at his work?) He still denys that. So today she sent me 2 messages, after I told her that she isn't a woman, she's a homewrecker and all that stuff). She replied and lied and said they were only friends, and that she would never try to ruin another woman's marriage, and lie, lie, lie. She said that nothing was going on, she knows he loves me and our kids, she has a BF and will be engaged in 2 weeks, and it was nothing and it is over. Now, I seem to have successfully made it clear that if she contacts him, all he11 will break loose. Now I just have a few questions:
1. Should I continue asking my H what exactly happened in order for her to declare her love?
2. How can I get him to answer me?
3. How can I stop feeling so horrible about the whole thing?
I told him that there must be a problem in our marriage if he can talk to another woman, he insists that there isn't. He says he loves me, can't live without me, made a huge mistake, and feels like death is better than what is going on now. What should I do? I need to know how to get him to talk to me about it. Not speaking for last 3 days, and when he does, doesn't give me answers. What should I do? How can I start recovery? Am I supposed to just pretend it's ok because he promised NC? I am continuing to spy, found nothing. I am lost here, what is my next step after exposure?
Last edited by psssedoff; 09/17/08 03:22 PM.
ME: BW 34 WH: 35 Married: 01/97 Together since: 9/94 Started spying 7/08 D-day: 8/25/08 Found out N/C broken: 9/12/08 NC (alleged): 9/15/08
DS: 10,2 DD: 7,5
Please give me strength!!!
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There is no way to force him to give you the answers you are looking for. But you can establish your boundaries of what you will and will not accept.
You want him to want to give you the truth because the consequences will not be pleasant. But if you cannot hand down consequences because your country does not allow M separation or D, then your choices and chances of getting the truth are limited.
So what are your boundaries? What will you settle for? Can you D if need be?
If he knows that you cannot leave him, he will not confess and you will be stuck forever not knowing.
Are you free to leave this man if you desire to?
BW(me) DDay EA 4/05 DDay PA 6/05 In recovery
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Oh and you might want to keep all this on one thread. It helps people to follow your story and it keeps all of your info in one place.
BW(me) DDay EA 4/05 DDay PA 6/05 In recovery
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So what are your boundaries? What will you settle for? Can you D if need be?
If he knows that you cannot leave him, he will not confess and you will be stuck forever not knowing.
Are you free to leave this man if you desire to? I am free to do whatever I want to and D is allowed here, that is not a problem. He knows that I am fully capable of leaving him. Some women here have no problem accepting if their husbands have up to 4 wives, I, on the other hand, would never accept any of that. H knows that I don't accept him talking to a female in any way that is inappropriate, as he wouldn't accept it if I did it. He may be arab, but he is not what many people think arabs are like. It's true, the culture here doesn't look at cheating in the same way we do in the States, but an unmarried female is NOT supposed to be talking with men, not that it doesn't happen all the time, people just sneak around here because culturally, dating is not allowed. I will settle for nothing less than complete commitment to me and our marriage, which I have made perfectly clear to him. Honestly, I'm not afraid that there will be contact, he is embarrassed enough that his mom and sister know, and she is scared to death that I will tell the whole country about her (very small country and news travels fast). My only concern now is how to start him talking about it. Should I accept his little answers and continue? I really don't think I can, but everytime I ask him something, I get the same response. Our marriage is in no way to be considered controlling, or that I am powerless in what happens. I just need to know how to go forward and get him talking or whatever I have to do to go for recovery. Should I continue to ignore him until he comes to me?
ME: BW 34 WH: 35 Married: 01/97 Together since: 9/94 Started spying 7/08 D-day: 8/25/08 Found out N/C broken: 9/12/08 NC (alleged): 9/15/08
DS: 10,2 DD: 7,5
Please give me strength!!!
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Are there any articles, particular posts, or anything else here that can help me know what my next step is? What do I do after exposure?
ME: BW 34 WH: 35 Married: 01/97 Together since: 9/94 Started spying 7/08 D-day: 8/25/08 Found out N/C broken: 9/12/08 NC (alleged): 9/15/08
DS: 10,2 DD: 7,5
Please give me strength!!!
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In my experience my FWH did not ever want to talk about any indiscretions, and then later he continued. It seemed that when he was mired in the shame and secrecy of his behavior he was doomed to repeat it...
I eventually told him something like this...
"I sense it is hard for you to talk about the things you and she did because you are ashamed of it. But it is important for me to know what happened and to talk about it. My instinct is also to talk about what happened and get the secrets out in the open between us so it does not overwhelm me. I have found when we have kept these things a secret they bred and continued. When we talked about them and opened the door to the secret closet, it aired out the guilt and and some of the potential to continue these behaviors. Although you do not want to talk about what happened, eventually I will want to talk about it. If that is not OK with you, then the message I get from that is you want to keep it secret so you can continue. I will not allow it to continue and will have to make plans for my life if this behavior does continue."
I found I could not convince him of telling me the things I needed to know right after the A ended. But after time had passed, he was more willing to talk. Although I warned him I would ask questions later, so he didn't try to stall me later.
You sound very strong.
It was easy for me to feel I had the upperhand and could wrangle a change in behavior because he was humble. I was not a good W for a while because of my anger. I had to learn cooperation and to respect and trust (eventually). Which meant not all my questions were answered when I wanted them to...I had to give things time...
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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Are there any articles, particular posts, or anything else here that can help me know what my next step is? What do I do after exposure? A good series of articles about ending an affair begins here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.htmlBasically, you first want to have WH commit to no contact(NC)with his lover ever again. He should write a letter to her, telling her that, which he gives to you to read and mail. The articles tell what they should contain - no mushy stuff. Until he commits to NC forever, you should consider a Plan A, for up to 6 months. If he still can't commit to NC, or if your nerves can't take it, you then may consider Plan B (essentially a separattion). If and when he agrees to NC, he'll go through withdrawal (he's lost the love of his life, his soulmate, from his point of view, and will be sad and depressed about it). When, and only when he's gone through withdrawal, will he be ready, mentally, to work with you on fixing your marriage. The last article in that series discusses that. If he can't commit to a NC for awhile, you will be under a great deal of stress. You should consider seeing a physician about a script for anti-depressants, as needed. Best of luck.
BH (me) age 55 FWW age 52 married 26 years First DDay 2/23/08, 1 day after PA began, ~1-1/2 months after EA began Multiple failed attempts at NC confirmable NC since 1/23/09
(D 31; S 29) my first marriage (D 27; S 25) her first marriage
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pssd, in addition to the great resources Galoot posted, I would add that the length of time for Plan A for a woman is much shorter for a woman than a MAN. For a woman it is 3 to 4 weeks, shorter if it is effecting your mental health. Women have nervous breakdowns from staying in Plan A too long, so be careful!
Sorry you are here!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Well, NC has been established, he told her to leave him alone and never C him again. So now what do I do? I thought Plan A was only when they were still involved with the OP, am I supposed to do Plan A after NC too? Should I tell him that I know it is hard to talk about it now, and I will wait until he is ready and be loving towards him? He doesn't want to talk about it now, only apologizes. I'm afraid that if I do this, he will think that all is forgiven, how can I make him know that it is not ok with me and I will want answers sooner or later.
ME: BW 34 WH: 35 Married: 01/97 Together since: 9/94 Started spying 7/08 D-day: 8/25/08 Found out N/C broken: 9/12/08 NC (alleged): 9/15/08
DS: 10,2 DD: 7,5
Please give me strength!!!
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"how can I make him know that it is not ok with me and I will want answers sooner or later."
Tell him this, but give him some time right now.
And yes, Plan A is when the A is still continuing, but also think about parts of Plan A that you will continue for the rest of your M. The parts where you fill each other's EN's. And right now, he maynot be able to, or want to, fill many of yours, so it will be one-sided for awhile.
What permanent changes to your M are you willing to make, and what permanent changes to the M is he willing to make. And how will you each protect the love you have for each other...ie, no more phone calls with women, find someone you will be accountable to, etc...
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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psssd, you are right, Plan A is only when there is an affair so you are past that point. I will find Dr Harley's newsletter about recovery and post it. brb
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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here ya go! Dr. Harley: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bcas your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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here ya go! Dr. Harley: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bcas your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
Last edited by Vows4Good; 09/18/08 06:59 PM. Reason: Correction
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