Hi 6,

I don't have any advice to give you, you're getting terrific advice already. I just want to comment... I am happy for you that your W agreed, and so quickly, to sign the postnup. I take that as a very good sign of her sincerity. There are so many WS's who claim to be sincere and remorseful, but they aren't willing to "put their money where their mouth is", by signing a postnup or sharing an inheritance or something.

I understand your pain may be too raw and you may be too hurt or angry to see this now. I think you will eventually see this as a good thing. Some BS's aren't so lucky.

Jayne,

It is meaningful to me that she just agreed to sign it. I'm still very angry. I think I just need time to process it all. I know it is a huge step and a show of trust in me and my word. She is very sad from reading my thread because she is seeing how much she hurt me and the kids.

I'm still here and still trying so she can take hope in that.

I really hope that I am around here in 6 years to read your post entitled - A Life Time Left.

Thanks for the nice throughts Mo.

This morning we were sitting having breakfast, after kids left. I have been staying home for us to have breakfast together. I was going to ask wife if she had thought anymore about the questions I had asked but I decided to take do something else so I said this as close as I can remember

I'm still hurt and angry at you for the things you have done and not done over the past 10 years, but I am also sorry for the things I did and failed to do that led up to your A. I know you have not been able to tell me what those things were yet, but I am sorry anyway. I wish I had seen that you could not handle the stress and that you were sad, that is my fault. In all of this stuff I am acting like a victim and I feel like one, but I wanted you to know that I am sorry.

She didn't seem to know what to say, so she just hugged me and sat on my lap and said ILY.

I'm still angry but I thought I needed to say this to her, whether I stay in 6 years or not. Was this the right thing to do? I'm under so much pressure I'm just taking actions without full consideration.

For the rest of your Life:

This was excellent:


You are owning your stuff with your W. She can start to own hers.

If she is reading here, she will learn. She can start her own thread, and I recommend that.

Notice this site does NOT have a forum or place for "waywards" only. There is a reason for that. It creates a much more open and caring enviornment. Waywards, who are far removed from thier A's, and even ones who are involved with the OP have gotten help, here. Mrs. 6, please look up posts from Mrs Wondering or Resonance for some guidance.

6: I changed your name at the top, because this last post finally showed me the other side of you. In your post, you go from "looking for answers to difficult questions" to stating that "you made mistakes too" (prior to her A) This is huge. Acceptance of your part and parts of the M means that you can get to the common ground that a M needs to thrive going forward.

There is much that you WILL have to apologize to her about. She has alot more to apologize for, but by making the first move, you make it ALOT easier for her to start talking about it.

LG

6,
Bravo. Incredible. That was wonderful.

Thanks LG, Chrysalis,

Looks like I didn't mess up this time, there is plenty of time for that in the future. I'm trying to go slow but sometimes I feel so much pressure to just do or say something.

6YEARS,

You have messed very little of this up. You are doing better than you think. As for the pressure, why do you feel it. She doesn't want to leave, you have no intention of leaving. The resolution of all of this will take time have patience with yourself and your W.

Sometimes, the most proactive thing you can do is "be still".

I am sure you apology was well received. You did the right thing.

Give this time and have patience 6YEARS. You will find you more often than not do the right thing.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I feel the pressure because I am so angry all the time and I want that feeling to go away. So, being a male type person, I tend to think if I just do or say the right thing it will be fixed. That works great for many many things but doesn't really seem to here.

6YEARS,

anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as: fear, pain, frustration, etc. What is driving your anger?

Are you angry at yourself for staying all of these years?
Are you angry because you feel you have betrayed yourself by not divorcing your W?
Are you angry because you feel foolish for marrying her or believing her?

Are you angry because you feel trapped?
Are you angry because you "plan" is coming apart?


Look at it from this perspective.

I will say the anger is normal, especially this close to everything changing, but also because you have stuffed a lot of feelings of sorrow, fear, pain, betrayal down for so many years.

I would also bet you are angry because deep down, you love your wife, you want to protect her, and yet you KNOW that she does not deserve this. You feel weak for not being stronger.

Let us know after you figure it out.

I will conclude by stating this. It took an extremely strong man to do what you did for your family and your children. It took an extremely strong man to give your W a chance at redemption which she would NOT have had if you divorced her.

I know you don't see things as I do... YET! But, as you move through this as you learn, as your W realizes fully what she had/has/and will have IF she starts to be the W and mother she should have been, your perspective on things will change.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I will think about this and try to get the answers. You are right that I don't know the exact why's of it yet. When I read your post I thought yes to all of your questions but that doesn't feel right and a little too easy anyway. I do know that part of it is that I am hurting and I am angry and she has not really earned the right to put me through this, but I have to go through it anyway.

The next time I feel like I am ready to explode I'm going to take a minute and reflect on where it is coming from. I'll also ask the psych to help me explore that tomorrow.

6years,

Good plan!

JL

I wanted to weep when I read this. Good stuff.

Something about the anger... you can dissect it, look at it, hide it, display it, stifle it, own it. But eventually, you will have to choose to letitgo or it will destroy any good or decency you have in you.

My real anger (read: cold, shaking, revengeful anger) didn't come up until about a year after we began our recovery. It was eating me up inside. It kept coming up, even when DH would soothe me. I was hanging on to my anger because if I let it go, God forbid, my DH might think everything was okay and we could ... MOVE ON. Un-uh. I wasn't going to let that happen. No way. He was going to pay and be reminded as often as possible about how much he hurt me and this family. What kind of friend would I be to myself if I just let him getawaywithit?

I finally realized that my anger was destroying me and possibly costing me my family, because of me... the way I was behaving. My DH was repentent, he was doing all the right things, saying the right things, this time it was me. All me.

Don't know if this even applies to you... I know you're still early into this... just an different observation.

Thanks Princess,

I'll try to think about if I am holding onto the anger. I am already tired of feeling so angry all the time.

I've got my homework on the anger to do. I'm also wondering if it is also to be expected that I feel so lonely. I'm almost never alone. I'm with family, coworkers, beating up my buddies in the gym, but I still feel lonely.

...I am hurting and I am angry and she has not really earned the right to put me through this, but I have to go through it anyway.
I don't know that I've ever heard it put that succinctly.

While I hesitate to use words like "always" and "never", I want to say that the betrayed ALWAYS (ok, usually) really, Really, REALLY feels dumped on. You do your part, you are the good spouse, you stay home with the diapers, dishes, and trash. The wayward runs around seemingly without a care in the world, playing, doing whatever feels good... and now YOU are stuck living with a mess NOT of your own making and doing lots of work (LOTS! of work) because of this mess someone else created.

It frequently causes huge amounts of anger.

You pooped all over me and now *I* have to clean up the mess?!!

I get angry just thinking about it, actually. It could be that that is part of where your anger is coming from.

I suspect, too, that you have held things together for a long time thanks to your master plan. Your plan probably became your mantra to get you through the tough times. And now your mantra is being threatened. That means no control, and no control leaves us vulnerable... and frequently when we feel vulnerable and threatened, and out of control, we lash out in anger. That might be part of it.

I'm also wondering if it is also to be expected that I feel so lonely. I'm almost never alone. I'm with family, coworkers, beating up my buddies in the gym, but I still feel lonely.

I suspect this is in part due to losing The Plan. Your safety net is gone. Everything you "knew" about your marriage is being questioned. That leaves a person feeling out in the open, naked, exposed. Maybe alone?

Have you ever lost someone near and dear to you? A sibling, a parent, a best friend? You have finally, after ten years of stuffing it, started to come to grips with the loss of your old marriage. You want it to be over and resolved NOW but as folks have told you, you have to go through the stages. You have to experience the feelings. It all comes in its own time, just like grieving the death of a person who is close to you. It won't be rushed.

Another thing about losing someone close is you go outside and you can see that the day is beautiful, you can hear the birds, feel the sunshine and the breeze. Yet it's all kind of like an out-of-body experience. It's not real, because the beauty of the day can't touch you through all your pain. You see people laughing and eating and going about life ... and you're not part of that world for the moment. You're busy grieving. And it can feel very lonely.

Those are just some ideas of what you're possibly feeling. Quiet introspection on your part will help you decide what the true sources of your anger and loneliness are. Perhaps I'm on target, perhaps I'm totally off base. But hopefully I've said a few things that help you look inward and consider the possibilities.

JL, Turtle,

I've been reflecting on why I am so angry, and to some extent the postnup seems to be blunting my anger. As you have said the underlying feelings are fear of being hurt again, desire to protect my children from hurt, and a feeling of unfairness.

I thought about my state of mind before. I had basically stuffed everything to get through the storm, keep a home, keep the kids, make a career and I was emotionally divorced. She was really gone to me. Even the sex (not SF) 3x per week was for her benefit. I don't want to be crude, I got to "finish" but the sex was pretty mechanical and she did not seem into me at all, closed eyes, no talking, no kissing and only interested in her own orgasm.

So in short, I was over it. She was gone, the plan was on course and I had my mission. Then she decided to come back to me, and because of my own stupid plan she didn't have to ask. She just came back. If I had insisted on an agreement before she would have had to ask me first, but I didn't. So now I am compelled to put my heart and kids on the line by someone who has hurt me deeply and who I do not love. I think that is why the postnup has been slowly working on my anger. Now it seems more like I agreed to this, it feels like we are both risking and we are making a deal to try something.

Does that make any sense?

I'm still not getting any reasons or direct answers to my questions but last night she did say that she she loves me and she tried to explain that she feels like she loved me during the A but admits that seems impossible. She did say she feels that I have always acted like I love her and the she has definitely not done the same.

I just listened but I was lost as to what to say. So I just said, "I'm glad that you are thinking about this and telling me what you are thinking. I know it must be scary for you."

Seems lame but that is what I felt and I'm still overwhelmed trying to process all of this.

Now it seems more like I agreed to this, it feels like we are both risking and we are making a deal to try something.

Does that make any sense?

Yup. Makes a lot of sense. You already lost everything to her, pretty much. It hurt, you found a way to deal with it, and you're not interested in risking losing it all again.

Now she has put everything on the line, too, and you feel like you are both coming at this on a more even playing field.

You may NEVER get a satisfactory answer to "Why did you do that?". Perhaps a better approach would be questions along the lines of "What were your motivations? What boundaries did you cross and why? Should additional boundaries be in place? What precautions can we take to ensure the boundaries are not crossed again?"

I think it would benefit you both to read through "Surviving An Affair". It would be best if you can read it together, and discuss it. Don't rush things - maybe read for 30 mins one night a week and discuss for 30 mins afterwards. Be sure that when one of you talks, the other one is quiet and works hard to really listen to the one who is speaking, and listens until they are done talking. No interruptions, no arguments. Just talk, and listen.

6YEARS,

Your analysis seems sound. Remember why she had the affair is useful to her and her establishing boundaries to protect the marriage. Why she has come back and where has she been for 10 years are more important questions to you.

I know she said her Mother, kicked her in the hindend, but normally that does not do much unless someone has already made decisions and assessments that agree with that decision.

You are lonely NOW because you stuffed ALL feelings before and had committed to being alone with the exception of the kids. Now you are facing the possibility that you will not be a lone but you are indeed a lone right now. Your W may be a person that has your back, but you doubt that now, I doubt it right now, and so do others. Things change.

Go slow, be honest, and listen carefully. She still needs to offer you answers to your questions. Has the SF changed now? Is she "into" you now, rather than someplace else?

6Years, you have years to go, so go slow. You really do need feedback on what she sees as different now, than in the past 10 years. What is your MIL's take on all of this? She seems to be a very astute woman, speak with her.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I'm going slow, I meet with the Psych today. I will have a talk with MIL and find out what she thinks. W is working on the what has changed but she is having trouble saying anything other than she has always loved me. The sex gradually became SF since June, she seems more into me than she has ever been. That is sort of what made me notice a change.

I'm wondering if it is possible that for years now she has had loving feelings for me but never really needed to show them since I have been a good H for so long. She says she didn't realize I was unhappy this whole time, of course she also didn't seem to realize I was unhappy during the A. Do people just get lazy when the spouse stops expecting them to do anything for them?

During the A, I did read here and worked on an active Plan A (and secret Plan D). The A was a long time so I developed new habits and I slipped into a pattern of meeting her needs. Even from her questionnaire I have come upon specific things that she likes through trial and error. She has a pretty large list of specific things I do that make her feel happy. She admits she has rarely thought about how to make me happy.