You know, GG - I think Soul has something. Your wife went on those skiing trips and to the beach. Maybe it's time for you to do your own thing for a few weeks. Think about life for a while, you know? And I think her dialog for when you go is perfect. It will make her wonder and maybe worry for a bit, and I think that will be a good thing:

"Tell her YOU are reevaluating whether or not YOU ARE HAPPY."

I really think the rest and the reflecting will do you good.

Thought I would add this:

I FEEL for you Gabagool...

One cannot make sense of anyone else...only of oneself.

For all the things that were / are 'Bad' about my H....I came to appreciate the GOOD...cuz that's why I married him...took us both a wake up call to get the "message."

Being Taken for Granted....is a nasty poison to swallow.

{{{gg}}}

I'm aorry I haven't been around for this. I can only think that yes, it will do you good to be away from her - only without her toxic negativity can you ever start to like yourself again. But I think that you truly need to be seeing a counselor every.single.week so that he/she can help you deal with this logically, not emotionally.

Don't abandon your kids just because 'she' is too painful to be around. You're a better man than that. And they need you. Cos she is going to go ballistic when you leave, and they need to see the real you, not the evil one she's going to create for them. Once they're grown, you can move to the tropics.

Please get thee to a lawyer AND an accountant and set up a monthly stipend for her and the kids. Do NOT give it to her all at once; she'll only drag you to court to get more out of you. Have the lawyer and the accountant handle all transactions for you so that all you have to do is make arrangements to see your kids.

Let your son get a job at Jack in the Box to pay for his room. He needs to grow up, and bailing him out only proves to him that he will never have to. Don't do him that disservice. This is the ONE time in his life you need to back off.

Finally, know that leaving is, IMO, the ONLY way she will ever get her head out of her rear end, if that's possible. If you stay, it will never happen. But if you leave, and demand the respect she owes you, she just might find it again.

Take care. And get that counselor!

Hiya Cat

I know you've not been around, but I've scoped some of your responses in other threads. Let me tell ya, I only read the nice, understanding, soft worded Cat on THIS thread, but I've seen a COMPLETELY different you on other threads. You stand up for yourself PRETTY GOOD, there.....and against posters who (IMHO) are know for bullying tactics....Good for you. But I think just about everyone on here knows you are someone with good intentions and good heart.

I am lucky to have you (and others) thinking about me.


Going up to see him on Sunday with my wife. We gotta move him to a hotel for a week (rules) I'm sure hes regretting what he did......because he knows this means NO FLATSCREEN!!! (And I'm NOT kidding)

Maybe I can secure a position for him with my potential investors......in case (HIGHLY likely) he can't hack college....

You know, I wouldn't mind him going into the armed forces. I think it would do a WORLD of good, build character, toughness......But, OF COURSE, my wife and I got into about THAT also:

ME: Yeah, I think the army, marines or navy would be great for him....

WIFE: Yeah, your right. ROTC.....They'll PAY for school! FREE insurance!!....It will teach him discipline!!! Just gotta figure out a way to get all of this WITHOUT the chance of him seeing any action...............

ME: What?? You want him to join the armed forces and try to finagle a way that he GETS all this WITHOUT fighting?

You see, I DON'T want my kid to become a stat EITHER, but, MY GOD, if you are going to join the MILITARY......you go, you do your time and fight IF your country calls you. You don't go in JUST to GET stuff. If YOU finagle your way around fighting, SOMEONE ELSES kid, someone who didn't figure out how to avoid fighting, is gonna take your place, and perhaps take your bullet....I don't know, it just doesn't seem right.....but, then again, I'M NEVER RIGHT ANYWAYS.

I LOVE my son, I WANT to protect him, but sometimes, only God can do that.....or SHOULD.

GG - Have you looked into technical schools in your state? Maybe he would do well with something like that, where he would have more hands-on training versus in-classroom stuff.

Get him a psychological educational evaluation at the counseling center at his school. (a psych/ed eval) There could be some sort of issues that could be dealt with that might help the situation or he might just have a severe case of 'entitlement'.

I have an assignment for you. Actually two.

One, get thee to a psychologist so you can get away from this toxic self-deprecating thinking. You have GOT to start being proud of yourself. What she tells you is COMPLETELY wrapped up in her distorted, dysfunctional FOO issues. COMPLETELY. That means they have nothing to do with you. You are just the one person in the world with whom it is safe to treat like crap, because she knows you'll support her no matter what. Guess what? If you truly loved her, you would start taking care of yourself, liking yourself, bragging about yourself even, and pulling away from her opinion of you. Only then can she start to focus on her own problems.

Which leads me to two. I assign you the task of looking around in your life for one friend. From church, work, the community, your street, whatever. I want you to pick out a potential friend and make an effort to invite this person to go to lunch with you. Or go biking. Or to the gym. Whatever. I order you to go out and spend time with a male friend.

Report back next weekend.

Cat
I UNDERSTAND about her being addicted to her hatred right now. And about her seeing me in a DARKER light than what is reality. But, you know, I blew it. I did. Even good guys screw up. I did. I thought marital love was unconditional, like love for your kids. You may be pissed, ticked, fed up.....but you still are nuts about them. I have to say, its been 5 years of NOT hearing I love you, FIVE years of pulling away, FIVE years of not holding my hand, FIVE years of pulling back on love making, FIVE YEARS of NOT a very nice marriage, and ONE YEAR of pure TORTURE, HELLL. But, I still love her. SO......I guess unconditional love IS possible. But not HER for ME. So I DIDN'T do the things that needed to be done. And, I'm not making excuses, but this God forsaken business is a big culprit.

I was running today in my town. I huffed, puffed and gagged my way down a nice street. There was a husband and wife, older, doing yard work together. Yard work. I was SO JEALOUS of that guy. What was I doing in the past at around 6 oclock in the evening, when NORMAL GUYS are home, spending time with their wife and kids? Uhm, I was working, making sure SOMEONE ELSES family was having a good time EATING together.

Its pretty simple: I thought that IT WAS OK TO NOT DO THINGS WIHT MY FAMILY because I WAS OUT TRYING TO PROVIDE, WORKING, SLAVING 90-100 a week. I thought that IF A HUSBAND WORKS, the wife SHOULD understand. BUt, thats NOT true. Maybe in the olden days, like my parents generation, but TODAY....nope. Men (AND WOMEN, for that matter) are expected to meet A MUCH HIGHTER STANDARD. Men are expected to EARN enough to meet all of todays "NEEDS" (you know, suburbs, flat screens, private schools, vactation, saving for retirement, 2 cars, a portfolio, riding lessons, dance lessons, gym lessons, in goes ON and ON and ON.)

If you WORK a ton, you better hope you make enough, QUICK enough, or the patience WILL run out. If you decide to STAY HOME and NOT kill yourself trying to earn, you better HOPE you married SOMEONE who's IDEA of "NEEDS" is a bit old fashioned. And women's whos needs are more MODERN, aren't bad women, they are simply a product of todays society. They've been TAUGHT that these things are important and that a MAN is NOT a man, UNLESS he can provide all these things AND,ANDITS A BIG AND....be home to spend QUALITY time with you, helping around the house, playing ball with the kids, helping with homework, haveing an INTERESTING HOBBY so that the wife finds him interesting and intriguing....ah, making sure you get in a work out 3-5 times a week so that you can be in shape, because EVERYBODY KNOWS that a REAL man takes care of himself, right??

Man, what a life. Tough................but everys single word is true.

I AM at a shrinks office. He tells me the same thing. Why do I let my wife decide what kind of person I am? She LIKES being ticked at me, I NOT this hideous person.......He tells me all this. AND he thinks my wife MAY be a lesbian, MAY BE now.....
So, while I agree with you all, I KNOW I haven't done the things todays MAN is supposed to do....I just haven't been able to..QUICKLY enough.

Friends? Another touchy subject. My wife used to get SO TICKED at me because I never went out with the boys. She said it wasn't normal. I told her that if I worked 6 days a week, I WANTED to be HOME on my one day off. She said it was because NOONE likes me. I tell her IF noone likes me, how did I raise over 200,000 dollars ON JUST A HANDSHAKE? No papers, no signitures, just ME promising? Huh? How is THAT possible for someone who everyone else despises? I have PLENTY of people who invite me to do stuff, I just DON'T do it. Partly because I used to WANT to go home, and partly because, frankly I just don't trust people enough for me to give them MY trust and heart. I got burned about 15 years ago by a group of CLOSE high school friends in a biz deal. I mean TOTALLY RAKED OVER THE COALS. Just like my father SAID would happen. Since then, well, I talk and laugh with people, I even might spend some TIME with them, but I NEVER EVER put any reliance or trust in them, I know as soon as $$$$$$ enters the picture, I'll be thrown aside. Thats a fact. I see it EVEN today, with my partners NOW. They are good guys and all, but if ENOUGH $$ enters the picture, they turn into someone I don't know. So I tell you what Cat....I'll TRY and think of someone who MIGHT enter my mind...but it will be a DIFFICULT TASK, ok??

PS: Sometimes, its not even MONEY that hurts you. My brothers in law would pull me aside EVERY WEEKEND, sometimes buzzed, sometimes not, and tell me what a "great BIL I am, the greatest, and a great father and husband, and IF something EVER happened between me and their sister, I WOULD ALWAYS BE considered a BIL.
Well, its been a YEAR since my wife started this full blast. They have NOT BOTHERED CALLING ME ONCE, NOT ONE TIME, to say "Hey, just thinking about you, you want to go out for a pop, you know and just talk.".....You know what I would GIVE for that opportunity?? Any idea what that would mean to me? Nothing. Dead silence. What ever happens between my wife and I, my relationship with my BIL's will NEVER, EVER be the same. Nor should it be.

Maybe your BIL is embarrassed....doesn't know WHAT to say?

So...rather than rub salt in a wound...he stays out of it?

Are your fingers broken? Call him.
Yeah...well it IS true...and it's also true that some women can be Real COWS. What can I say?

My H gets back from 2 months abroad today....do you THINK I can biatch about NO time together? *sure*....that would make *sense*

That's OUR life...he is GONE 75% of the time!!! It sucks.

That is HIS work...and he LOVES his job. It would be brutally selfish to biatch whine and moan about it now.

Gabagool, your wife does NOT APPRECIATE what she HAS...plain and simple.

YOU are NOT HER WORK HORSE!!!!!....but you have been and continue to be...and your efforts go unappreciated.

You Love her, I know...but here's a little SOMETHING....when you LOVE another...HE / SHE is #1. Their health, their well being, the ALL of it....where does she place YOU on the list of priorities in life?

Has she got your back when the chips are down? Where will she be then?

If you LOST everything right now....what would she do?
Quit jumping through her fool hoops!!!!

You are YOU, be PROUD of that!!!
You are SUCCESSFUL!! <----that took TIME...it didn't fall out of the sky!!!

Your wife needs a "reality check"...

Well

Just got back from seeing my kid at college. I'll read the posts tomorrow and answer in detail. But, since I gotta get it off my chest, REAL QUICK:

My son was a plethora of why "nothing was my fault". I yelled at him, got in his face.....and didn't feel the least bit guilty. I feel BAD, but I just don't know where to go from here.

My wife and I TALKED a little bit about us. ANd truthfully, it was kind of a NICE talk...the kind of talk that IF I was talking with someone I had just met....I would think that there was a chance to advance the relationship....I must have been drinking.

But:

She told me that she is cheap now because she suffers fromt he same syndrome old timers who went through the DEPRESSION suffered. They were SO put out by the bad financial times that they are ALWAYS on guard, even when times improved. So....she comparing having to live through DOWNSIZING the home (350,000 to 200,000) and not eating OUT to NOT having a home to NOT EATING.(which describe the mentioned DEPRESSION)
Im exaggerating BUT, I understand her point. Like I said, I just couldn't get it fast enough for her. It just took too much time......

I told her that I would cut the grass tomarrow, she told me NO, LET MY YOUNGEST DO IT......I could do something else, she said.
"like what", I said. "I will do ANY chore you want me to do, but, I DON'T NOTICE THINGS like you, just TELL ME, OK?" "Fine" she said, "but I told you to fix the leak in the garden hoses and you tied a stupid rag around the leaK!" I do admit that that is HIDEOUS, but I COULD NOT REMEMBER, for the life of me, her telling me that!!! "When did you tell me to do that??!??!" I asked....."Oh, about FOUR (4) YEARS AGO!!" she stated, matter of factly........After I picked my jaw off the bottom of the car, I told her, "uhm, don't you think that was a little while ago?"

I just HATE myself after I talk to her. I feel like such a loser, lazy, scummy human being. She JUST will not LET GO of the past. What I have done THIS PAST YEAR, means NOTHING. Its only the BAD TIMES, she remembers....I guess I gave her PLENTY of bad times....

See you guys tomarrow.

PS: I'm tellin you guys, there is NO WAY, NO WAY, I am gonna pin hopes on the (relitively speaking) nice talk we had today, where she talked to me NOT in a shouting, threatening way, but ALMOST like she talks to her friends. I know this meant NOTHING to her today, and there will be NO "good nights" tonight, or pleasant conversation tomarrow. This was a FREAK occurance.

Okay...I believe you. Maybe she was having a good day, and I wouldn't blame you for taking it with a grain of salt.

That being said, I have an idea for you.

It's just something to think about. Maybe write down a list of areas of the house that you think she's expecting you to take care of. Then go over it all with her - not on your own. Make this a team effort - she being the one who decides if it needs to be done or not. That way, if it isn't done because of the money - you can say that she didn't approve of it, so it wasn't done.

How about your furnace if you have one? Has that been serviced lately with winter coming on? New filters, things in there oiled, etc. ? Is the oil ordered? If it's electric, maybe she'd be happy to see one of those timed thermostats installed.

How about insulating your pipes and hot water heater with winter coming on?

Does your snow blower need servicing? How about the cars?

How about looking up ways to save electricity or water, and going over it.

I'd like to talk to you about something too. You know, for all our married life, I've always been the one to handle the finances,and it's a stressful job. He handled his finances for maybe 9 months of his adult life. He nickels and dimes the account all the time. (I know you don't do this) Then he acts disgusted because I haven't been putting anything much into our savings. Hello?!

Part of our problem is that we don't communicate much at all about the bills. Part of it is my holding back because I'm worried we won't see eye to eye and therefore will never get ahead. I have a plan, but I'm not confident at all he'll be on board. He doesn't like talking about what we owe or what I'm doing with the money or why we don't have enough for this or that. He's hard to talk to about it, isn't approachable, and seems content to stay in the dark. I'd really like to be able to sit down with him and explain things, but it rarely goes well, and I'm sick of being the bad guy. Maybe your wife feels similarly?

This week alone, I had to turn him down 3 times for various things, among which was an idea to go to a huge fall fair that would easily end up being $100. Just as an example of non necessity spending. I know you gotta have fun. I know life is short, but if you wanna keep warm and pay your taxes, those things sort of have to take precedence. Maybe the financial things your wife seems to stress over are inconsequential to you, but I've also heard on here plenty of times that if something is important to our spouses, it should matter to us...

I think about FOO issues. Lord knows it's been mentioned on your thread so many times. Should we be accountable for our FOO issues? Should our spouses grant us some leniency for FOO issues? Not sure. I know as an adult you're supposed to pretty much be responsible for your own actions. I've also heard that we feel how we feel and there's no right or wrong in that. So...maybe there's nothing wrong in your wife's viewpoint based on her FOO issues. Maybe there's no right or wrong in your viewpoints either. Maybe this is more a matter of disrespecting each other and wanting to be right more than wanting peace.

So, why not learn to economize, GG? Why not have a budget? Why is that such a nasty pill to swallow, if it would make her happy?

Why not look up ways to save money, and use this as a platform to talk to her in a civil way. "Wife, I saw this list of ways to save electricity online. Is there anything on there you want me to do?" Don't just do the thing to save money - ask her what she thinks about the idea. Get her talking, don't just surprise her with it. Being frugal might turn her head. And I know it gripes you. I know that. But the very thing that you think is tearing everything apart might not really be the issue here. The issue might be your resistance to see the common sense in it all and getting on the same page as her. Maybe frugality is an emotional need. Heck...maybe it's a turn on - who knows!

I happened to see this online today:

"And, in fact, it is almost always better to let go of being “right” if it means that you can be at peace. Husbands and wives everywhere will certainly nod their heads in agreement to this, yet when it comes time to put this plan into action, it can be easier said than done. Why? Because being right is directly tied to our egos, and as the egoist says, “Everyone has a right to my opinion.”

“Being right is something that appeals to your ego or personality. It has nothing to do with what you truly are. If you’re stuck in your head, it will be important for you to be right,”

Yet, ask just about anyone what they want out of life, and they will almost always say “happiness” (or some form of it). Rarely will anyone say, “What I want out of life is to be right.” So you can take this concept and run with it, especially at home, but also in your dealings at work and even with strangers, and instead of worrying about who is right, hold on to your need for inner peace.

Have a good day.
[i][/i]

Just a wayward thought:

It makes sense to me that she would have a heightened fear of not having enough money if she were going through menopause - a palpable reminder of pending old age.

Another wayward thought:

I see a lot of noncommunication going on with you and your wife - a lot like my own marriage, and I think that's what keeps me attached to your threads. I wish I knew the answers for both of us, but something tells me that radical honesty has something to do with it. And, I think even if it's painful to hear, you can't lose by telling the truth.

I do believe that it's unwise to be in the dark about the finances. I think we should enter marriage with the idea that we will pull at least as much weight as if we were single. If we were single, we'd have to maintain the home, maintain the finances, do errands, our own laundry, our own dishes, and work. We'd have to do all of those things on our own. And if we continued after marriage to do those things, we'd be giving more than enough, probably, to satisfy the other. Instead, we stop. We see the other person doing it, and we figure - oh well, that's their job now.

In other words, we start to take each other for granted, and we become oblivious to the fact that it's an LB until the well hid resentment is so overwhelming, that we don't realize it until the marriage is in trouble.

GOLD.



....sometimes...it ain't friggin worth it.

Soolee

Hi

Im really sorry that you see some of your marriage in mine. It must be SO frustrating.

I've been real busy these last few days with work, expansion, my son, my wife. Plus I just feel BAD just sounding off all the time. I would like to provide HELP for others also, but it just doesn't seem to be worth the hassle anymore.

Soolee
I got NO problem with budjets, NOW. I've apologized and and stated so, but to little or no avail. I ALSO understand her statement of always being cheap now because of how she lived, but you know something. When I guy has BUSTED HIS AZZ ALL HIS LIFE, the feeling of frustration at NO MONEY COMING HIS WAY can be overwhelming. I mean, if ALL I did was sit at home, golf, and go out with friends AND THEN COMPLAIN about no money, well, I've got no one to blame but myself. But, I tried, real, real hard. Sure I made mistakes, who doesn't, but NOW I live with the fact that my wife WILL NEVER CHANGE because, despite trying, I failed so miserabley early on. If my wife TRIED to do something, and failed..................well, she would NEVER hear it from me that her failure EFFECTED me NEGATIVELY and PERMANATELY!! I just couldn't live with myself if I made my wife feel guilty IN SPITE of her trying to do the right thing. Even if I WAS effected, she would NEVER know. How could I do it to her?


Soul
Thats whats so frustrating. I may complain, I may [censored] and moan, but the chance that I MAY get my wife back some day.................It's ALWAYS worth it....I just don't know if I do the right things or not.......but she is SO SO WORTH IT.

gg, this is wrong thinking. Wrong! You may have done things wrong, but her choices and feelings and actions are HERS. NOT YOURS. Do you see the difference? Just because you're not getting what you want, you're taking on all the blame for yourself. Everyone makes mistakes, but the decent people don't make you pay for those mistakes every day of your life.

You really really need to get some distance from this situation to see the fallacy of your self-hating thinking. You need to LIKE yourself, or else she never will. Start turning around her jerk attitude back where it belongs - on her.

Counseling? Friends? Physical activity? What are you doing for yourself?

"She told me that she is cheap now because she suffers fromt he same syndrome old timers who went through the DEPRESSION suffered. They were SO put out by the bad financial times that they are ALWAYS on guard, even when times improved. So....she comparing having to live through DOWNSIZING the home (350,000 to 200,000) and not eating OUT to NOT having a home to NOT EATING.(which describe the mentioned DEPRESSION)
Im exaggerating BUT, I understand her point. Like I said, I just couldn't get it fast enough for her. It just took too much time......"

GG - Can I go back to this for a little bit? I've got to take a moment and validate your point in all of this. Our home is worth maybe $120,000. It's probably as good as it's going to get. There won't be any upgrading for us in terms of building a new home or moving into a more expensive one. If we put any money into this, it would amount to a new kitchen and a garage that still won't place our home anywhere near the value of the one you and she had to downsize to. Not eating out? boo hoo. Her husband owns restaurants; he can cook for the family. We order pizza once a week here. It amounts to $44 a month. About every 2 months we have breakfast or pizza out. That amounts to maybe $40. I wouldn't call that living it up. My husband's idea of a date is something sponsored by his work where food is included. lol

Bottom line, GG. Your wife is spoiled, just like your kids. She needs to live in the projects or a slum for a while or get involved in Habitat for Humanity before she's going to be grateful for what she has. She's extraordinary. Take that into account. Her aspirations are high, not average. Take that into account too.

Did you force her to stay home with the kids? I kind of doubt it. It was likely her choice, so if she has or had frustration from those days, it's the kind of frustration that all sahms have to swallow and deal with in exchange for being home with their kids. That's life.

You're doing damned good, GG. You're doing very well by your family. You have nothing at all to be ashamed of or down trodden by, in terms of finances. You and your family are fortunate, and you really need to step outside your wife's perspective and stop making it your own. You keep weighing your accomplishments on your wife's scale, GG. It's time to get yourself your own scale. This is what Cat is trying to explain to you. If you are unable to find your own scale, you need to get away for a little while - a month or so if you can manage at least, so that you can step away from the negativity and regroup.

When you post about finances, you know what I think about - something strange, probably. But...I think about my Jewish Uncle who passed away of leukemia many years ago. I could have this wrong, but I believe Jewish people are buried in robes with no pockets, and I believe the no pockets thing is because we come into this world with nothing, and we leave with nothing. All the materialism we find so important in life means nothing in death.

My dear dad - I love him so much. We had some rough times growing up with money, but he always found a way to keep our family (and my mother) balanced when it came to the almighty dollar. He had this saying, see. If she was stressing out about bills or about buying something extravagant, he'd say "Hey..." and he'd look at us and smile after he got our attention. Then he'd quietly say "It's only money, honey."

My dad is 74 now. I know he won't be around a whole lot longer. He lost his own dad in his early 60s. So...that's one thing that will stick in my mind - how he felt about money and how important it is to keep it in perspective while you're here because you didn't have it before you entered this world, and you certainly won't have it after.

Cat

Hi ya, hows it going??

I understand what you are saying. I really do. I am just TERRIFIED about leaving. We ALL know it can be disasterous.

You know, I'm 48 years old and I DON'T HAVE A CODE OF PERSONAL CONDUCT. Really, I was driving home from my son's school yesterday, thinking. Because of this krap going on, I DON'T have a set of personal MORAL that guide me. I'm CONSTANTLY going back and forth with whats right and wrong. I mean there are certain givens, certainly. But, throughout the day, I am ALWAYS questioning my decisions and actions. Sometimes, it really sucks.

I KILLED myself for YEARS. Working, ACTUALLY being in the KITCHEN, cooking, sweating, making sure EVERY TINY MINUTE THING wasa right. I was OBSESSIVE. And you KNOW what that got me? No money, a broken marriage and my wifes statement that "yeah, you work hard, but you work STUPID!". Yeah, people really liked my place, but you know something....its REALLY EXPENSIVE to make sure 100% of your customers are happy. Bottom line, you are in business to MAKE MONEY. ANd you SHOOT for 98% For 98% happiness, you can make a profit. Its those last 2% of people that you can NEVER make happy. ANd trying to make those guys happy costs you your profit.

So, I pulled away. I let up. I met people. I talked with people, and you know what? All of a sudden, things MIGHT FINALLY be happening! But, NOW, my wife wants to know WHY I don't work like I used to. In an EMAIL I intercepted she told her toxic friend that I think I deserve the summer off "just becasue SHE has it off because she is a teacher!" I was in stunned disbelief. Instead of cutting and cooking, I'm meeting with people ans getting to know people that can help me. I MUST admit, that after 30 years of working and NOT schmoozing, guilt is a constant companion. But, I always say to myself "Gab, you worked like a dog for 30 years and ALWAYS got the same results, nice press, but NADA after that. Stop doing the same thing. Keep doing what you are doing until it proves to be a mistake".

I just don't understand. BEFORE I WORKED HARD, BUT STUPID....now, I'm being questioned on WHY I don't work like I did before?????Can ANYONE decipher this? She used to SCREAM at me for ordering COOKING books (I did order a lot)but these books HELPED me get what I have today. Now, when I mention it to her, she denies ever being ticked off about me ordering books....sheesh.......


I gotta reprogram my recorder, I get garble half the time. So far, nada, except fro some disparaging remarks about me. I don't want to hear those either. Take care cat. Once again, thank you for letting me babble like an idiot.

Soolee

It is nice to finally be able to piece together parts of your life and your relationships. I understand completely about your dad. Mine effected me BOTH positively and negatively. His influence was ENORMOUS.

Look I agree with your observations of my wife. I AGREE, that no matter HOW bad we had it, we were STILL better off than 95% of the people in the USA. BUt, it THIS town, we were near the bottom. And again, while my wife isn't one for MATERIAL things, having the $$ in the bank meant EVERYTHING.

While driving yesterday, I was thinking. One think that came to mind was how I thought of marriage when I first tied the knot. I had SUCH an IDEALISTIC view of marriage that I now realize that it was UNFAIR to push this view on my wife.

I looked at love and marriage in this way. And I am being 10000% honest here. I looked at it like this:

No matter HOW BAD money ever got, as long as we LOVED each other, and respected each other, IT IS ONLY MONEY (sound familiar?). To me, not having money was NOT how I wanted to live, but if that WAS the situation, so be it. I only needed my baby next to me, loving me and supporting me. And I would ALWAYS love and support her. I look back at it now and feel so stupid. NOw, when reality hit, I noticed that MONEY WAS important to my wife, that it CHANGED the way she looked and felt about me. ANd, for my fault, I panicked. Instead of sticking to the way I looked at things, I began to internalize her worries. MY goodness or badness began to be linked with my abitility to make money.

So I overreacted to criticism, I yelled, I shouted out false bravado....all because I was SHOCKED, SCARED AND UNPREPARED to face a world where it's REALLY NOT about WHO you are, but about WHAT you MAKE $$!!! Now, my dad had ALWAYS told me, "Gab, Money is everything. ITs what makes the world go around, and its what makes people respect you, nothing else." Now I didn't want to believe that. But, I suspected it. What REALLY surprised me was that NOT ONLY was the world like that, to my HORROR, I began to realize that GOOD people were like that also, MY WIFE WAS LIKE THAT..... I was terrified. Here I was, 30 years old, and I NEVER worried about making money or getting money. I had a wife. One I adored. THe rest of my life would be no problem, as long as SHE loved and respected me. When that began to crumble, I just wasn't ready. I CONSTANTLY battled myself between the two stances of "money isn't important" and "money is everything".

Soolee the average house in my town is around $500,000. So that is what my wife sees. She doesn't want the houses and stuff. But when neighbors and friends talk about retirement funds, college funds, investments, etc., it worries her. ANd I feel bad. ANd, in these terms, I AM a failure. A miserable failure. Three really is no two ways around it.

COuld my wife have done a lot worse? Oh, yeah. A lot better?------OH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH.......

I know I have to leave eventually, maybe after the sale of a few places. I'm just scared.

Again, I will tell you that you are thinking WRONG!

This is not true. It doesn't have to be true. If you don't want it to be true, it won't.

The ONLY reason it might be true in your life is so that you can keep your wife. Who hates your guts.

So what's the point in that?

On your deathbed, no one will recount the boats you owned, the franchise you started, the diamonds your wife wore. They will recount the relationship you had with your kids. The way you played with your grandkids and how they loved to visit you. The fishing trips you took with your friends. The people you helped through volunteering.

If I had to guess, your (ex)wife won't even be brought up. Because she'll be off somewhere living alone and miserable, with all her diamonds and condos and fur coats arrayed around her, rich but alone.

YOU will be the one with the life worth living.

GG,
H and I live what would be termed as a very comfortable life. We do not have alot of extra money to fly around the world or buy extravagant things. But, by all accounts, we are looked upon by others as 'lucky'. But, here I sit...a stay at home mom, feeling like it's all a sham. I would give all of this up to erase the feelings of insecurity I have from my H's EA. He does not believe this to be true. Not because he thinks I can't do it (probably couldn't) but because he sees his role as the provider. He believes that the way I love him is by how much he can offer to me. Really, all I ever wanted was a best friend and a man I could totally trust. The money stuff really complicates stuff.

My 13 yr. old recently told me..."mom, I hate money...it wrecks everything. I just don't understand why everyone can't have the same amount." Hmm...out of the mouth's of babes.

So, it's a double edged sword. You will NOT be able to change your wife's perception regarding her "place" in your community. That's her issue, not yours.

I'm just saying...if my husband was talking with you he'd probably totally understand what you're saying. I believe, it's a guy thing and I can respect that -- it just doesn't mean it's right.