Go and have a wonderful time and take lots of pictures. Then tell him you missed having him there.

Continue with Plan A for a few more weeks.

I did as you suggested and sent WH a message from the game that read "Hey you. Wish you were here".

He said that it was a really great message and rang me after his seminar that night. The Landmark Forum is fantastic and has really opened his eyes. He has put the past in the past and is working on his ethics and integrity!!! I believe there is a really great chance for us now.

He invited me to his graduation last night and I signed up for my own course in 3 weeks. He really wants me to do it for myself and I know that it will help me stop the LB's and become a wonderful person again.

I had a terrible depressive Sunday but I feel great after my intro session of the Landmark Forum last night. It's a life-coach concept that helps you target the problems, work on them and improve your life.

I really hope this might be the platform that gets us back on track. He is so different already. He had withdrawn so much but the lights are on again now and he's getting happy and he's even happy with the kids and me again. He wants to make us his priority even whilst we're separated. He's looking for work and focussing on himself.

In his words, once he has integrity he will be able to make me promises and stand by them - he can't now. He also knows now that grudges don't work, the past doesn't matter and he will never again make a decision whilst he is angry or unclear.

He doesn't get mad at me for expressing my feelings and understands we interpret things differently and apologised for how his friendship looked to me and how it has hurt me. He also understands that I became so possessive because of this.

There's more, but it's just nice to breathe again and hope.

He came over last night to have dinner with us and spend time with the kids. He is so attentive to them now and didn't get out his laptop or get distracted by anything. He gave them dinner and a bath and cuddled and played with them.

We watched a bit of tv together and then he agreed to a back/neck massage for me as I have been having lots of neck problems.

We chatted and he massaged me for about 30 minutes before SF. He was attentive to me too and different. He talked to me and explained some feelings which he had discovered about me and SF and it was really special.

We chatted after that for another hour in bed. It seems that I am fulfilling his EN and SF and it's a lovely feeling. He said that he needs a lot of time to be able to offer me the kind of marriage I deserve and he doesn't think I will wait that long. I told him that I never want our old marriage back and that I have no intention of pressuring him back into the marriage. He genuinely thanked me for that.

He kissed me when he arrived and he kissed me when he left. He calls me pet names and called me to say he had a really wonderful time with us and it was fun. Later that night we chatted and he was feeling down. I think that I have almost become the lighthouse whilst he is in the choppy waters as posted in another thread.

It feels like this is my best shot at keeping my family together. He loves me, loves spending time with us and misses us when he's gone. I don't pressure, argue, complain, control, manipulate or bring up his best friend. I don't think that's going so well at the moment because he is talking to me a lot more. Plan A rocks!

I am hopeful that someone will post a comment for me and give me a little bit of support...

He drove past my office yesterday when I was walking out so we went and had coffee and hung out for 2 hours. He came back home last night to see the kids but it was different between us, strained. I am struggling to keep up plan A when there is very limited love and concern back and when I know that he is living out of the house as a free man. He left at 8:30 after packing the car discreetly, putting some dirty clothes in the laundry basket, quick peck on my cheek and literally ran out.

The laundry made me cry this morning. I am not his mother!!!

I don't know if he will stay faithful to me and I don't know what is happening with the Best Friend. I know there has been contact and his eyes lit up when her name was mentioned yesterday in relation to the band.

I feel hurt and very alone. I wish that he would face up to his responsibilities and come home, but it is much too late for that. He will continue on hischosen path now to find himself and what he needs in life to make HIMSELF happy. I have no doubt that he will lose me along the way.

We have 2.2 months of agreed marriage counselling to go before we are free to go our separate ways following our 3 month commitment to not make decisions about our marriage. So, I have until New Years Eve to put up with cake eating and make plan A the best I can before going dark into plan B.

Still hopeful, but struggling!

wish I could be there to make you a cup of tea and put an arm around your shoulders!!!

You are clearly a very kind, loving person, who wants to do what is best for her family.

I am afraid that this man is feeding you a line of crap!


Ok, here is the thing. You NEVER work on your M by living in seperate houses. This is not a dating relationship where you are trying to decide if you are right for each other. Those days are past. He made the decision to marry you. You had children together. The times of living seperate are over.

Living seperate is just a very good way to continue to do whatever you want to whomever you want. I think you know that all ready. If he really wanted to do the right thing for you and the kids, he would be there for you. In the same house.
what if you suddenly decided to take off and find yourself? To attend a few seminars and live in an apartment by yourself until you felt like you could finally be the W he deserved? What then? would he move back into the house and take care of the kids?

I hate to see people hurting - and I can feel the pain in your posts. But this man is walking all over you. He comes by for a day, massages your back, whispers sweet words in your ear, and then openly admits that he is not sure he can be the H you deserve. If he were at all sincere, he would have moved back home right then!

So you had a really big high over the weekend, followed by a bigger crash. And that will continue as long as you let it. You need to become strong enough to finally say "enough. Please do not come over here unless you are ready to move in, full time, and committ to me, full time. No more "BF", no more excuses. Just you, being my H, full time." and when you are ready to say that-you will need to follow through. 100%

He will treat you like this, as long as you let him do it.
And each time, he pulls the scab off of your gaping wound.

I wish I could kick him in the shins for this.

I am certain that he "wants to be a good H" because he does not want to lose you. But he also does not want to lose his freedom, his ability to have as many "BF's" as he wants. Love involves sacrifice. Marriage involves sacrifice. But you are the only one making those sacrifices. If he is not able to do that, then you need to let him go.

Some people will never grow up. They will just feed you enough scraps to keep you strung along for a very long time.

You should read "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson. This book talks about how a H may feel trapped in a M, and what to do about it.

Hello TM2L

I have been following your story with interest because we have a number of things in common.

My story is in essence the same as yours and not unusual I am sorry to say.
It is the classic story of a 38yr old man who ,after all the excitement of fathering two children feels marginalised ,trappedand and bored. It is the story of a thrill seeker looking for a high who decides not just to stop the clock but to travel back in time and become 21 again. All fun and no responsibility.That was my h. At that point in our m he met a 23 yr old and then proceeded to cake eat in secret for many years before I found out. At least your h is telling you what is happening in his life so you are well informed and hopefully well armed

There are many similar stories here on MB. The whole situation is well documented and the behaviour starts to form a pattern where all the WH seem to fuse together and become as one .This is the benefit of the MB system.

The techniques for dealing with the situation are well tried and I would encourage you to grit your teeth and stick to the advice you will receive here. At least you can say you tried your best for your family.Keep posting to get some perspective on what constitutes a good plan A.

I like the way your h describes you as his rock. I took that role in our relationship and for what is worth we are still together. If you are a rock then OW is a marshmallow, soft , sweet and if consumed in excess can make you very sick As my h described the cake he had eaten his family were the cake and OW the icing .The Icing being an optional extra plus all of the above .Keep working on your rock like abilities, above all dont turn into a marshmallow its so easy to dissolve and give up.

P.S . I will be looking out for your posts . I am in OZ . Sydney northern beaches So spare a thought for MANLY Sea Eagles in the RL grand final tomorrow.

By the way do you support Hawthorn or Geelong?

Oh no! Not his dirty socks.

I think that by accepting this "gift" it sets the tone to walk over you. Hand these back to him without washing them. Just explain nicely that a gentleman does not do that sort of thing when courting a lady!

Don't even get upset, he's just taking a fat chance. Don't rise to the bait.

Thank you WOF5 for cheering me up!!! I would love to have a cup of tea with you and truth be told, could really do with a hug just after you kick him in the shins! LOL.

I will take it a day at a time, knowing that Plan B is the ultimate step that I will get to. I keep hoping that he will wake up and change his mind and my marriage will become wonderful...

Hi myopia. I laughed when I read your post (I don't feel so alone now!!!). My husband tells me often that he is really weird and no one is like him or has the same problems. MB has completely grounded me and kept me sane.

I went for Hawthorn on the day - there's something about the underdogs that I just really understand:) I spent many years in Darwin so am new to AFL and find a new team to follow every game!

I wish I read your post before meeting hubby today. He visited the kids last night and also today and I was not the rock. I was definately NOT the marshmallow either - maybe more like my old self. Yep, a few LB's in the mix just to sweeten the deal before he left tonight.

I was doing great with plan A but he pushed one button too many and I jumped out of the car and walked off, leaving him in the passenger seat and the kids in the back whilst I cried on my own for 5 minutes. I composed myself, got back in the car and then he wanted to visit my parents and show them the new car! We dropped by and my parents were so happy that we were together that they didn't notice the tension!!!

On reflection, he has been getting really comfortable with us all again and I think he was digging for a reason to justify not being here. Plan A was working!

Anyway, we've spoken on the phone since and he still blames me for treating him so badly for the last 12 months, like today's outburst, but hey, I really have been trying. I know that he's noticed, I know that he's been warming to me again, but I know he is lost and confused and it's one step forward, 30 back.

He pays for another week's accommodation on Saturday's... Guess he's got his reason for another week.

Go Manly!

Hi Imagine!

LOL - I did ask him to do the rest of the washing with his shirt for me as it would really help take the pressure off...

It's still in the basket and it will still be there when he's ready to wash it.

Love the way you work.

It's a dark and rainy day in Melbourne and it matches my mood.

We chatted a few times yesterday. My daughter really missed him (they had seen him everyday for a week) and kept asking him to come home and tells him he works too hard. He thinks they are my words, but she's 3 1/2 and they are totally hers. I wish he'd understand that he's affecting the kids.

He told me he was really mad at me for arguing in front of the kids - actually, I jumped out of the car so that I didn't argue in front of the kids. He said it was unforgiveable to do that in front of them and just enforces the way I have treated him over the last 12 months. Ok. I was upset but I really didn't treat him badly. He was looking for something and ramped it up.

He also informed me that he will have a job soon and will put the money back in our account to cover his accommodation etc. I guess that's good, but part of me was happy we couldn't afford it and foolish enough to think he might just come home...

He told me that I am going back to how it was before - ie. calling too often and putting pressure on. Yes, I am back to feeling dependent on the sound of his voice.

I sent him a text message asking if he wanted me to tape a new show that he was interested in last night. He sent back "yes please thank you".

No more texts or calling last night. This morning it was raining heavily so I sent a text asking if he wanted a lift to my car park where he had been parking, about 20 minutes from where he is staying. No comment. I called 40 minutes later and he was ticked off because he had parked at his accommodation instead - I didn't know - but I stayed bubbly and light and wished him luck for his job interview.

I just keep on stuffing everything up. I really must not call or contact him again. The only way I make any progress is when he misses me and calls me, sees me etc. I need to remember that this is on his terms, not mine. It sucks. I love him so much but I am finding it harder to remember the good times.

Our counselling session is 2pm tomorrow. He has a band rehearsal with the BF on Wednesday night and a gig on Sunday. Great!!!! I am going out with a friend on Saturday night and he is looking after the kids. If I'm lucky, he will have good feelings about me before he catches up with her, but I am really worried.

What happened to my husband? He was coming back at the start of last week and now the evil person has kicked him out!

I spoke to our mutual friend today and he spoke with WH yesterday. He said that WH is still processing a lot and he helped him understand that he was blaming me that by making himself right and me wrong he was not moving on and focussing on the future. (in Landmark Forum speak). It was a short time after this yesterday that WH called me to settle things and move forward.

Our friend is an amazing support for WH and has really helped me too. He asked about the BF and he said that they don't see each other as much now as she is too busy with a new band. Time is helping here and she is not staying faithful to her BF in all of this when he is struggling etc. This is great for me!!! Marshmallows really do make you sick.

WH sounds really down today. He went to social security this morning but they are having trouble separating us on the system so he is not getting any benefits for another 3 days. They actually relocated our whole family to his new backpacker accommodation:) Perhaps there was a higher power at work???

Feeling stronger...

My friend at work encouraged me to choose 3 Angel Cards and they're lovely. I chose Passion, Spiritual Understanding and Hello from Heaven. Basically I should be choosing more from my heart and less from my head to get what I desire!

He dropped off my car park remote without seeing me and that hurt. I wish he would put the walls down so that I could plan A.

Not calling, not texting, just waiting.

He called tonight on his way to the Landmark Forum seminar and he was explaining a crack in the new car's windscreen when he hit a pothole and the run-flat tire indicator went haywire. He called back when roadside assist was there but not for long.

I called 30 minutes later so DD could say goodnight and he was waiting in the car whilst they fiddled with the tire. He was annoyed and I asked him if everything was ok. He brought up my jumping out of the car from Saturday. Hello, it's been 3 days!!!

I apologised, again, for hurting him and the children and said that I had made a terrible mistake and would work hard to make sure it didn't happen again. Mistakes happen but you need to forgive me and put it in the past like I have done many times for you.

Not happy, he said that he didn't want to talk about it and had to go.

I haven't heard anything since. I hope he went to his seminar tonight and that it clears his head. We have counselling tomorrow and the homework was to complete the form about our ideal marriage. Mine was all based around MB principals but I am guessing that IF he does his, it will be about freedom and personal space and ability to pick and choose own friends etc.

Oh joy, I can't wait till tomorrow.

No, no, no, no.

This is not what the MB plan is about at all.

Have you read the book, Surviving An Affair?

Get yourself up, off the floor, and quit being his doormat. Did I understand your post correctly? You are paying for his accomodations???

Sister, you need to stop that right now!! If your HUSBAND chooses to move out, and live as a single man, he needs to pay his own way. He is USING you.
That is not what Plan A is about.

In a nutshell, when a WH has an A, the BW takes a look back at the history of the M to see what may have lead up to the A. If the BW finds that there were times when she did not meet her H's EN very well, then she can show him, during plan A, that she has the ability to meet his needs. But you only do plan A for a short amount of time, and you do not contribute to his A by paying his rent!

You have got to get your strength back, and be ready to tell him that you love him, you want to stay married to him, but if he wants to be your H, he needs to move back home and start acting like a H. But you will no longer pay for his rent to live as a single man.

You got out of the car to have youreself a good cry? So what!? you do not need to apologize for this. You are going through a horrible time, and he continues to live as a single man!?! Darn it anyway, quit apogolgizing to him!! This man is abusing you,and you are apologizing to him.

the MB plan is not about letting him do whatever he wants, whenver he wants. It is about showing him how great your M could be (plan A) and then telling him that as long as he continues to have a relationship with the OW (BF) then you will not be able to be in contact with him any longer. Watching him continue his R with this OW is hurting you too much, so you need to seperate yourself from that, and allow yourself the chance to heal.

He is trying to make you into the bad guy here, by telling you that the reason he is not coming home is because you got out of the car to cry? that is a load of crap. He is telling you that was unforgiveable? BS!


I hate to be blunt here, but I am afraid that he has no plans to move back any time soon, and he is just looking for excuses to blame you. He wants to be able to say "I was going to get back with my W, but then she did something 'unforgiveable' so now I can't."

You really need to go into a dark plan B to protect yourself.
this man is mentally abusing you.

WOF5 - you are right. I am a doormat and I the more I think about my marriage the more I have realised that I have always been a doormat.

It's been easy for him to abuse me for the last 8 years in this way because I let him.

I have planned to do the Landmark Forum on 24,25,26,28 October. http://www.landmarkeducation.com/landmark_forum.jsp and I truly believe that after the intensive weekend, I will come out a stronger and more confident person.

Our marriage counsellor asked us for 3 months committment before we made any decisions and that brings us up to the end of December. Is it possible to go into plan B whilst meeting once a week for MC? I don't think so, but I am open to suggestions.

I have less than 3 weeks before my forum and given that I have been the doormat in every relationship since I was 17, it will be a good time to break the pattern and take care of myself. It's bigger than my marriage today.

Yes, I have been paying for his accommodation. He promised to pay the money back when his benefits start coming through this week. He doesn't get it and thinks that it was my fault that he left therefore I should pay for it.

Deep down I know my husband is looking to blame me for not coming home and deep down I know that I am a good person who really does deserve so much better... I just keep on hoping that he will wake up and realise what he's throwing away.

He thinks we can have a friendly divorce and be friends for the kids and everything will be fine. Not in my world! I want a loving, committed husband and daddy for my children - whether it is him or not.

My WH just emailed me a Plan B !?!?!?!?

I emailed this to his boss/our mutual friend. I figure I have nothing more to lose - again, I have just lost my husband whom I love more than anything in the world!

It hurts me so much to see that he cannot see what is before him. If he really heard me, he would have heard me say that I deserve a husband who loves me and will be my best friend and put me first. He would have heard me say that I want that to be him and if he cannot be that person, then I will find somebody else for it is what I deserve, and he deserves to have that with his wife too - hopefully me.

I have told him that I want to spend my spare time with him because we used to be best friends together and share so many good times. When he became distant from me and found OW, I became cold and mad because I could not reach him. I never wanted to push him away, I just wanted to win him back. He was spending 15-20 hours a week on the phone to her and meeting her a few times a week at least, all in secret from me and all the while it was eating me up because I thought it was a full blown affair. He was never honest with me and still pushes me to accept that she, and others, as his best friend - although I am sure OW is number one and the others are just to throw me off and make it seem normal.

He thinks that I have become nasty and bitter with no respect for him and yet it is a product of how we are both treating each other. If he was home I would have an opportunity to love him and support him. Like I said, the 5 minutes + I hear from him or see him a day (if I'm lucky) is filled with me trying to meet his emotional needs and give him reasons to love me whilst he picks apart my conversation, body language and even unsaid imaginary conversations to find the negative and use it against me. None of my emotional needs are being met and I am working full time and looking after the kids, house, finances, bills and when it suits him, my husband. I really don't have much left to give.

I had no intention of writing him an email and calling everything off. I love him and want to create an amazing marriage together with equal respect and love for each other. I just want him to give me a chance and stop hurting me with his actions and words. There was no mention of him damaging my car and scaring me. He has a major anger management problem but never apologises for breaking things - it happens whenever he feels threatened but he thinks that's my fault and therefore I deserve it. He broke the large family photo of DD, WH and I by throwing it outside 6 weeks ago and never mentioned it, just left it out the back of the house in the rain.

It's like he is posessed by an alien. Where has my husband gone? Surely someone that loves me wouldn't be trying to hurt me like this? He said all the right things to me after the Forum but I am pretty sure it was just what he was told to say and not what he meant. I don't think he sees anything wrong with the amout of time he puts into his female friendships compared to the effort he puts into his marriage. He thinks that he can fall in love with me when we don't spend any time together and when he is living the single life with no responsibilities or restrictions on friendships or time or consideration for me. He said I am making this hard on him but I fail to see how someone who doesn't work and gets to socialise with whomever, whenever with no daily schedule has any real problems. I am the one who has been abandoned and I feel extremley hard done by and lost and alone and afraid and out of control and sad. He gets to call all of the shots and decide if/when to see me and if/when to communicate at all. I just get the left over time.

Now I don't even know what will happen. Maybe he just needed an excuse to be with someone else whilst unmarried, which he has clearly stated. What a perfect way to lead into an affair with someone guilt free.

I'm so sad and hurt and apart from not contacting him, I don't know what to do.

He said in our counselling session today that he just doesn't like me and I am very low on his list of priorities. Duh!

Help, please

Looking for advice and support please

HI Rocky

OK One day at a time

Firstly I think you need to change your tag line as you need help for the management of plans A and B. You need as much input in this regard as you can get .Maybe a direct request for help with this will bring more response. I cant help you there because I never had to do any of that.I just lived with the elephant in the lounge room and some really inexplicable behavior from my H.

As far as inexplicable behaviour is concerned I am afraid I am an expert .In his letter your H is trying to pin responsibility for all his problems on you. He isnt talking sense.I discovered that by trying to record in writing my h s arguments that he was really trying to blindside me into thinking every thing was my fault when it was all his choice

The best hope here I think would be an emotionally uninvolved third party i.e. your counsellor or good friend to talk to him

WOF has identified mental abuse. She is right. He is constantly telling you that there is something wrong with you .You know this not true at the moment but little by little you could come to question your own judgement.

The best information on this subject is a book called Verbal Abuse by Patricia Evans. If you go to Amazon.com you can see the book, read extracts and order it to be sent or it may be available in OZ There is also a web site related to the book with a similar forum to this at VerbalAbuse.com.

The book identifies that all the techniques used in abuse are geared to one purpose i.e .control of one person over another. There are many relationships which exist with an uneven balance of power it is not a healthy situation.

I don't think he will follow through with his plan B he needs you too much. He is punishing you for the fact that he is losing control of his life.I would say OK to his plan and leave the organisational details for him to arrange. Give him full control of the situation. It is my bet he will be back as soon as he needs something .The behavior goes in cycles he will have forgotten all about this in a couple of weeks----- but you wont that is the difference.

I am so sorry to see you having to deal with such an incredibly difficult set of problems however you are certainly not alone .You are not the first and you certainly won't be the last .The internet is the best resource for pooling our experiences our WHs all seem to have attended the same school .

BEST WISHES Keep posting

PS The party is still going in Manly