Why bother? You won't listen to anyone here who has already experienced infidelity.

You will just keep burying your head in the sand.

Try the digital recorder and key logger. It will take you about one day to hear your wife's 'friend' speaks like a man.

Unless she has decided that she is no longer heterosexual...it won't be the first time that has happened either.

Why bother? .....if I hadn't of listened then I would have agreed to spend nights out of the house and not checked on her after work.

I apreciate peoples time and effort to read my story and provide feedback. It helps to know others have been in same situation and it helps to get different perspectives.

I posted because I needed a place to share the pain I am going through while my world and dreams crumble and try and get some advice on how to cope and keep my family together.

I'll assume that because there are no rules enforcing the accepting of one persons advice over anothers that my posts looking for help are just as valid as yours not offering any.

That would be ammusing and confusing. She should be able to still care enough to explain her realisation. After so long I don't think that's it. It would be less threatening than another man though.

Oh, I helped you. You just want to ignore the facts because it's safer and easier NOT to believe your wife is sleeping around on you.

Use the recorder and keylogger. You'll get your answers pronto.

See, I've been down the road you are just starting to travel.

She doesn't use PC recreationally so keylogging isn't going to reveal anything.

I will get a voice activated recorder, is that what you mean? I guess the only places i could put them would be in the car and in the bedroom.

I have to make an admission of a mistake though.

Last week when I first posted and got the first response saying she must be having an affair I panicked because I had never even considered that. So, I went and asked her.

I have been trying to get to her mobile phone since then but she hasn't left it in her handbag and/or left her bag out of bedroom while she sleeps. The only way I can see myself getting it is to sneak into bedroom while she is sleeping and hope she is charging it in the open, or, just confronting her to get it. Is she keeping the phone hidden or is it paranoya now that I have this added fear?

Both options have pontentially damaging side affects. If the infidelity theorists are right then I am justified in just getting phone from her. If they are wrong then either approach could create a reall upset just when I want her to start to calm down and relax while I try and make deposits. The deposits are going to be wasted if I invade her privacy by getting caught in bedroom for example.

Ideas?

This afternoon I plan on checking on her after work again if she plans on going to gym.

Can you check her cell calls online? Don't assume she is so smart that she wouldn't call from your home phone. Check the redial list.

Put the digital recorder in her car.

She ueses a pre-paid credit system so no billing to refer to.

Hi Greg,

Firstly the phone, yes it is very suspicious that her phone is never left laying around the house. Mine is usually on the kitchen bench when I'm at home for easy access. During the A, H's phone was never to be seen. It was his work phone so I (stupidly) never gave it a thought, but since D-day and finally going NC, his phone is always sitting out on the bench for me to check anytime I like.
Is there any way you can get to her phone while she is occupied in the house. I used to check H's phone while he was in the shower (does you W take a long bath?), or when he was mowing the lawn or gone for a run. Make a note of any repetative numbers dialed in or out, even if they have a female name attached (it could just be a cover for a man). Text messages will be especially revealing. As well, you can dial her messagebank to listen to any saved voice messages. Check the mobile and home phone account. Our Telstra account shows all numbers called from my mobile including locals, and although the home account doesn't show local numbers, it does show all mobiles. Check it out with a fine tooth comb.

Secondly, it is a good sign that she was where she said she would be. Most people in an A would be with the AP if they are not with their own partner and children. Have you really given much thought about who she could be having an A with? A co-worker (past or present), a teacher or parent from the kids school or sporting activities, someone from her gym, a friend, neighbour, your brother? Is there a male that she used to be friendly with or mention to you, but she has now stopped talking about?

Thirdly, check your bank and credit card accounts for any unusual or increased expenditure, especially in locations she would not normally go to. This may identify places she could be meeting an AP. Has she been putting more effort into her appearance? Buying new outfits? Leaving the kids with you or babysitters to go out on her own?

Finally, have you had a 'real' heart to heart with her about what 'she' wants from you and the marriage, or are you just telling her what you think the marriage needs and shoving a lot or articles in her face? I know this is usually the male way of fixing a problem - identify problem, find solution, quick fix. Maybe she doesn't feel that you are really hearing her. Ask her to write down her idea of a perfect marriage with you, and what she needs from you to make her feel safe and loved. You may be trying your darndest but just missing the mark. By the way, this really won't help if she is in an A, because she will be completely blinded to you and your efforts.

Keep your eyes open and your antennae up. Good luck.

Yep - she is not interested in talking.

I'm getting more and more frantic now. Thankfully the AD are stopping me from crumbling into a basket case.

Greg,

I'm not sure if you've mentioned before, but have you guys ever been to MC in the past or discussed finding one now to deal with this? I can see from an earlier post that you may not have been the easiest person to live with, but is this the first time it has come to this? Is this the first time your wife has gone this far in separating herself from you? And if so, is this the first time you have 'seen the light' and put in so much effort to save your M? Surely she must see there is a change this time, or have you gone through this scenario many times before and then nothing changed? If that's the case, then what's difference this time? What's in it for her?

Do you have a family member who could mediate for you two? I know during some of our hardest times, my SIL was a great support and shoulder to cry on while at the same time she could talk very frankly to her brother (my H) and get through to him in some ways I couldn't.

Regarding spending nights away from the house, can you come to some 'separate in the same house' situation? During some of our most testing times, my H slept in the spare room. We didn't want to confuse the children (7 & 10yo girls) too much with him coming and going, and just told them that he had a bad back and the spare bed better for him. They accepted this without question, although we never discussed our problems or fought in front of them so they had no idea anything else was out of the ordinary. It was actually helpful for us to be separated in the same house, because we could continue our family routine, make times to talk (or not) after the girls were in bed, and then retreat to our own rooms for some personal space. See if she will consider something like this.

Ok - umm - some history - she has threatened to seperate twice in the past during arguments which have ended with me stopping the fight and talking calmly to try and broker a compromise on the main issues. Namely my computer use. But neither of us dealt with the real issues of our needs.

I would ammend / change times etc but ultimately she really wanted no computer - she hated it - I hate it now too - it's gone - and I wanted to be accepted for the way I was dealing with the stress of life and lack of closenes by drowning my brainwaves with virtual life. Life I should have given more to Her and the girls instead. I should have faced the issues and not hidden like a little boy.

Yes we went to a MC a few times some years ago but she won't entertain the idea - at least not when I asked her to last week. At the time I could see the concepts the MC was trying to get us to see and work on but my wife didn't. She only heard what she wanted to hear, and I guess I was blind because I felt justified in the use of my recreation time as I saw fit. Stupid stupid stupid.

Fast forward - I have refused to go along with me spending nights at my mums. This was due to the "OM" theory that so many have given for her behaviour, but I could see this made her really angry. And she basically won't communicate with me other than for essential family / house stuff.

Greg, I just quickly logged on while waiting for H to come home for dinner and there you were.

It sounds as if you've been zoning out and disconnected from your wife for a long time, so you've both been losing touch with each other for some time. When my H was in the A, his mind was absent from our day to day life most of the time and I felt like I was raising the children on my own. Maybe your wife has felt like this for a long time, and whether she is in an A or not, I'm sure her mind is racing too and she sounds like she is very angry. She is going to have to speak with you sooner or later. How do you usually resolve these 'silent' standoffs?

After a one week silent standoff with my H, I wrote him a letter (because sometimes he can be too stubborn to break the ice even when he knows he is wrong). I explained my side of how I was feeling and asked him to read it in his own time. He didn't take what I had to say too well, but it did get us talking. Maybe a carefully worded letter about what you are feeling and willing to change / do for your future will give her time to absorb it in her own time without the pressure of you looking her in the eye. Can you 'make an appointment' with her to discuss your current status and plans to move forward. Arrange for someone to have the children for a few hours and sit and talk about everything in a calm and heartfelt manner.

Again, you really need to find out if there is another man in her life. If there is, then nothing you say will get through to her.

well to answer your questions - we have never gone this long not talking. That's because this is the first time she has refused to forgive me and talk. She has said she doesn't love me anymore.

I have written two letters. One last week aknowledging the pain and anger I have caused and regretting the loss of time and closeness - sincerely apologising and asking for her to forgive me.

And one two days ago asking her not to give on us or our family, that we can rebuild our love and with knowledge we will do better. I also promised to not try and talk her out of it anymore - I think last week I tried to talk to her about 3-4 times.

I don't feel very optimistic but I'm just gonna keep doing all the things around house I can - attend to the kids needs , and act as normal and pleasant as I can toward her and ignore her lack of interactiveness.

On the OM topic - I have purchased a voice recorder which I'm going to in her car. Gonna try and get to phone tonight (it's raining atm so hopefully it keeps going so i'm not so easily heard sneaking into room).

See what happens.

On a happier note - 1st book arrived today "Love Busters" - so I'm off to read.

There goes that promise - she just got her self ready to go out and and when i asked where she said "Does it matter, so i said "yes it does" and she replied to her girfriends and she actually asked me if it was ok . Like daring me to say no.

The she goes "do you want to drive me and pick me up". "I wanted this week to be both of us sleeping away from house" "I'm just visiting and coming back later".

Well, I just felt this strength of character build in me so I sat up (from reading Love Busters) and told her that I wasn't leaving her or the house and that I would prefer it if she stayed instead of running away from me, our marriage, and family. That obvioulsy she was scared of giving in to her feelings and dealing with them but that I was going to be dealing with everything front on from now on and I want her to join me.

There was a bit more but basically I could see she had no argument and fell back on that stock standard Line that I am trying to force her to change her mind. I just said it's not forcing , it's the force of my belief that we can rebuild what we have broken and that our marriage and girls were worth more than just running away and ignoring me in the hope I will give up.

And so you know - I rang the girlfriend and explained that I was trying to save my marriage and keep my family together, unlike her partner, and would appreciate her not aiding my wifes negative image of our marriage.

Oh and on the OM topic - I had this Light bulb like revelelation this afternoon driving home from my last job, trying to rack my brain about where my wifes big change had started and who could it be she had feelings for or was seeing, I thought to myself that once she started her weight loss program and she religioulsy stuck to it, she has changed a lot since then. And it hit me, I bet there's a bloody male instructor there.

SO, I sped off to the weightloss centre, My plan?

My plan - was to find out who all the instructors were. I was going in to thank the centre for supporting my wife and wanted to give her a surprise party and thank the "instructors". Yeah, I was gonna thank him alright.

I arrive and jump out of the car all pumped up, I grabbed my work diary (as a prop) and stormed into the centre.

Right, lets see where this dude is - and then all I saw was one big room full of women - all women instructors - one came up and jokingly said "out you go, no men allowed" I played along and went through with the "surprise" thingy anyway. Oh well - who knows - when she reaches her goal weight and I throw a surprise party we might be back together.

The cell phone thingy is a dead giveaway. That combined with the recent weight loss makes your situation almost textbook.

There should be no secrets in a marriage. There's a huge difference between secrecy and privacy.

Yes it is a red flag - how do I get a hold of it?

On a brighter note - I employed a negotiating stratedgy from book and asked my wife how she would feel about making a time to talk about things.

I was worried she would just say there is nothing to talk about and that she wasn't going to change her mind. But while not being enthusiastic she did agree to a make a time on thursday night.

I would love anyones ideas on how I could best start my negotiating with her on thursday. Ideally I would like to have say going to MC to start our reconcialiation. But this might be a dead end flat out no and then what. So what should I realistically be aiming to achieve.

I can think of other areas where it would fail - like I could ask her how she is feeling about things now - and it could just open the way for her to give the same answer and blam.

Ideas?

Tell her you want to make sure that she enjoys her time with you and figure out something -- anything -- you can do together that she would enjoy.

Whether there is another OM in the picture or not, the fact is that she has given up on you. Try to push her to do anything, and you are just adding to her perception that you don't care about her.

I'd be careful about pushing for marriage counseling if she isn't really interested in the marriage. It would just seem like work.

Cherished

Greg, it's great that she's agreed to talk. That's a positive step, and it means she may be ready to negotiate with you now. But more importantly, you need to show you are listening to her. Focus on what she wants and needs from you. She can't argue with you when you are agreeing to give her what she needs (and mean it). Your marriage has been slowly eroding for years and she needs a damn good reason to give you another chance because past efforts have failed.

Keep up your efforts around the house and with the children - remember this is forever, not just until she comes around. You need to show consistency and longevity in the new you.

Now you are off the computer, you must have a whole lot of free time to spend with the family. My H has made huge efforts to reconnect with me and the girls, taking us out and doing more family activities together. He has brought home fun games to play like Kerplunk, Junior Pictionary, Magic Tricks, and PS2 games that we can all play together. We now take trips to the park all the time, walks along our local beach, bush walking and general weekend outings. Initiate some fun and games with your girls, invite your wife to join in and I'm sure she'll find it hard to resist.

Finally, if you think your wife will still be reluctant to go to MC, have you considered IC for yourself to help you through this period on a personal level, as well as to help identify why you have retreated to your computer world and disconnected from your family. Maybe some insights to yourself will also help in the M and show your wife you are serious about getting it right this time, once and for all.

Good luck for Thursday.