H never called to my phone message. Didn't send an email reply either. I called off work today. . .didn't sleep well thinking about my H and this situation.

I hope I am able to get an appointment with Steve this week. I sent an email request yesterday (Sunday) so I am hoping they call sometime today to confirm an appointment.

I just keep reading the His Needs and Her Needs and Love Busters and see what a fool I was all those years. I can't imagine my life without my H. . .no other man will compare and I can't bear the thought of him loving another woman.

I am not going to ask my H about the coffee date at all.

Don't know if this will be any help.

Left my H, he was abusive, verbal, emotional , physical.

However, in the end game...I became quite horrible as well.

My take, from my experience, he just wants Peace.
No emotional Anything. It's too draining.

2,5 years later...he made a lot of changes...but...it's not as good as it could be, not by a long shot.

Your H has not pushed for the divorce. He is in a holding pattern. Observing. Evaluating....can he chance it again?

Those Marriage Vows meant something to him...tossing them aside is not really that easy...when the marriage failed...it meant I failed too...but I couldn't take it anymore.

I'd cancel the coffee date...but send a card. Something simple...not too mushy...it hurts too much.

You're both hurting...

I have an appointment with Steve on Wednesday morning! Yeah! I pray that he will be able to help or at least give me the right words to get my H to participate.

It is a long shot but I have to try everything possible.

Did you reconcile with your H? It sounds like it from your post.

it is good you have a meeting with Steve. he will give you some good ideas and will tell you from experience if this will work. personally i see your H has not shut himself totally from you. if you let go of the past (even anniversaries, because if you recover you might want to take new vows and make that your anniversary day). He wants to see a totally new MMM he knows the old one too well. give him space for now and ask Steve re: cancelling the coffee, personally i think that is a good idea to call it off as things stand now. again ask him.
i hope you feel better soon. your H is a special person and of course you want him back. it is not over. you are still married.

Thanks Gen -- I am quite terrified -- every day I go to the mailbox I pray there are no divorce papers.

I was talking to my Gram last night and she said that she can definitely see a shift in my reactions and attitude. I've got the MB tools and my church family now to support me in this effort.

This change is real and I want to share the new me with my H. Yes, I do want him to come back now. . .so he can see the changes but I understand that I have to wait. I am trying to put his needs first -- giving him space.

It just stuns me that we can still talk and make each other laugh. I am so stupid to have brought up our anniversary. . .I keep forgetting that he just doesn't feel the same about me as I do about him.

My H, 2 and some years after, contacted me for a divorce, he had contacted before, but I had not responded. He'd sent email...and would shake in the reaction...I was still so angry and hurt.

Then he wanted the divorce. He had someone else, I did too. [I did not leave my H with anybody in the wings... the relationship on my side with the OP was dead in the water...already...but still "together'...but dead wrong for me on so many levels] My H called and I told him. He had not known before hand, [ gets complicated here] Anyway...he had a woman he wanted to marry, I said ok, I meet with him and give him the divorce. We had to go back to Thailand for the divorce. [ we are not Thai, but we married there]


We had spoken several times on the phone....and it was wonderful...this was the man I had fallen in love with,...not the rage machine. I was still scared out of my senses...but when I arrived at the airport...I so wanted to see him...and was completely terrified...and when I saw him...broke down crying...he was running to me...grabbed me up in his arms...and I was HOME.

Abusers are PEOPLE too....they are hurting also. And one can become abusive in retaliation and self preservation...and it's hard not to always be on guard.

I have to OWN my crap too...and reading your thread...helps me to see both sides. I see a lot of me in your posts. Even though I was the one that left. I honestly don't know which came first...but I certainly recognize myself as the abuser towards the end.

Neither of you had filed the divorce papers. Your H is being gentle about the car...and I didn't throw my H things in the garbage and burn them. I kept them, packed them all up carefully, saved it all...we're still unpacking them 2 years later.

Verbal abuse HURTS...worse than a physical punch. [almost] I would rather fight physically then get stabbed in the heart with cruel thoughtless words....but I sure have a trap for spewing venom!!!....my H too. *cringe*

I am guessing your H wants the OLD you back...where did she go? The one he fell in love with.

I would lay money on it, that he his hurting...and creating peace for himself....and HOPING that you "get it."

In my case...we BOTH had to "get it"....and it's still a struggle but it is 100X better than it was.

Well Gang, I received a pleasant surprise when I came back to work today and opened my email: my H did respond on Monday morning to the voicemail I left him on Sunday. Here is the exchange:

H on Monday:Sorry I didn't call you back yesterday. I woke up feeling like I'd been hit by a train and slept off and on all day. I feel about the same today - in fact I'm kinda regretting not calling off. I think I might have a cold or something - surely bowling didn't cause this? Bowling was okay, by the way. I'm about as good at it as I was way back when. I think my scores were 177-124-103. I think I'd be a lot better if I had any idea where the ball is going once it leaves my hand. How are you?

Me on Tuesday:Sorry I didn't get your message until today. . I called off work yesterday. . .I had a stomach ache and headache. I slept a lot of the day and even fell asleep last night at 9 PM and didn't wake until 6:20 today. I think I may have eaten something that didn't agree with me. Good to hear that bowling was fun. . .maybe you did pick up some germies from the bowling ball? :o) I think I would like to join a pool league if they exist. . . .but I would have to learn to break before that ! :o) That storm was crazy on Sunday night, wasn't it? The house at the end of the street (across from the crazy day care people) had a tree fall on their house! There was a tree company with two trucks and two wood chippers there all day yesterday cleaning it up. I could see the guys on the roof. I didn't want to be too nosy so I didn't walk down there but I am betting they had a lot of damage. Are you feeling better today?

H: I am feeling better. It did cross my mind that I had picked up something from the bowling balls, but my money is actually on the Arby's that I ate beforehand. There was something about the taste of the curly fries that just didn't seem right, but alas, I didn't realize anything seemed amiss with them until I had finished them? That said, I wasn't really feeling nauseous or anything - just everything in me hurt, if that makes any sense.
Every movement hurt, my eyes hurt, my arms/legs/back/chest/ hands. Weird. Sorry to hear you were feeling poorly, too. Are you better having gotten some sleep? Yeah, that was a wicked storm. The air felt great, though.

Me: Yes -- I feel much, much better. I enjoyed the air/wind too -- hung out on the deck watching the trees sway and the moon was as bright as can be. We had lost power right before the Steeler game and it didn't come back on until 4:30 AM. Luckily, I had the little hand generator we bought and Sam's Club and it worked like a charm on the downstairs TV. What quarterback did you end up getting to be your starter on your fantasy team? Looks like Matt Cassel didn't do such a bad job.

H: I traded for Drew Brees (cost me Reggie Wayne) and I picked up Aaron Rodgers off the waiver wire. So this week I played the wrong one (Brees), of course, and it cost me a victory. I'm wondering if that will happen every week, where I'll pick the wrong guy. Probably. I'm already 0-2, so my history of fantasy football failure continues to repeat itself.

Here are my 2 cents MMM: he misses you! you did very well in your responses, you kept it light, no references to the past, no heavy talk. Light conversation that targeted common interests. this is the way to go!!! (ehi, I am saying this because this is also what i need to do with my H, works like a charm: if i am pesky and the conversation becomes heavy, unpleasant or anchored in the past...he pulls away and becomes ice cold).
You have your appointment with Steve this am. Great!!! Let me know how it goes!
My feelings are good towards your M recovery. I believe you can do it. Please keep it light, don’t be tempted to expect too much from you H now, it is easy to fall into that trap especially when they open up to us, like your H just did, but remember, they do not feel the same way we do. They still see is as toxic and are conviced we can't change. We have to SHOW them we can (telling them will not work). I hope you feel better!
I am going to post on my thread now.

Thanks Gen for the words of encouragement -- I hope you are spon on about him missing me. I love to talk to my H -- it is the best thing on Earth!

We actually continued to talk throughout the morning yesterday over email about football and the weather we had here. Here was the rest of the email exchange:

Me; On another note. . .my calendar is starting to fill up for the week . . .did you still want to meet for lunch/coffee break?

H: Sure, unless you're too busy. I'm fine for Thursday or Friday or any time next week, really.

Me: How about Friday the 19th at 11:45? (I sent this really late from work so he did not respond yet)

It was so tempting to choose Thursday (our anniversary) but I resisted the urge and picked Friday -- a lot less emotional. Plus I get to wear blue jeans to work so things should be more casual.

I found these sites on one of the threads here at MB

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000476;p=0



http://al.turtlecounseling.com/blog/_archives/2005/3/8/410458.html

Hi Gen -- thanks for the links! It all feels so manipulative, though, doesn't it? Like a game. . .a dance.

Anyway, I had a fantastic call with Steve this morning. Like you said, he makes no guarantees and the road for me will be difficult because my H and I have no children to bind us together.

So, I have to demonstrate to my H that the change is real and long lasting -- not crisis management change which is temporary.

I do have a coffee/lunch date with my H this Friday -- day after my anniversary.

I have to do the LB questionnaire from my Hs perspective and then ask my H to read and give me feedback -- for purposes of my own change not for the marriage.

Ok -- as the day goes on, my anxiety level is rising! What if this Friday's coffee meeting is a disaster???? What if he is freaked out by the LB questionnaire?

Goodness gracious . . . I am terrified to speak to my own husband!

What ifs and if onlys are fantasy...

Every time you interact with H, you're connecting...emails, calls, now in person again. A bit anxious? Normal. Especially after realizing what you've realized...the whole of it.

Terrified? Are you telling yourself your marriage will be decided on this one date? Is that real or realistic?

Very happy about your appt with Steve and I'm glad it went so well...

Are you terrified you'll cross your own boundaries, revert into old behaviors this Friday?

What did you fear before you feared your self?

LA

Maybe terrified is too strong of a word! Full of anxiety . . yes. Yes, I do kinda feel like this face to face meeting is critical to the success of our marriage. I want to convey how much I am changing . . .and I want to make sure there is a second coffee date!


Yeah, I am afraid of getting emotional on him. . .afraid of it being awkward between us. I'm also afraid that seeing me will confirm for him that he doesn't have feelings for me. . .that seeing me will only bring back bad memories instead of the good ones.

The scariest thing is . . .I am not sure I have much to offer him in terms of making him happy and meeting his needs. Of course, I used to think that I made him happy but now I know the truth. I guess I am just doubting my worth -- maybe he was right to leave after all?


Hmm. . my fears. . . fear the death of loved ones, especially my Gram. Worst fear was my husband getting sick and dying or as it turns out, leaving me -- same concept. Afraid to be alone . . of growing old and alone with no heirs; no family. (During an argument once, my H told me that I was going to grow old and alone. That always stuck with me -- I usually let lots of things roll off my back -- but that one stuck).

Hi Everyone!

My H and I had our coffee date today. The conversation was good -- very light. We talked about politics, football, his bowling league, etc. We laughed and smiled too--especially when I laughed and ended up spitting my drink on him! No talk of the relationship or marriage or divorce. We kind of lost track of time and were there for an hour. He said it was nice and maybe we could do it again sometime. We didn't plan any future talks or meetings and secretly I was hoping for hug . . .but all in all, there was no drama; no tears.

I sent him a thank you email afterward:

Me: Just wanted to say "Thanks" for the coffee . . .it was good to see you. --Me
H: Quite welcome. I enjoyed it, too, Spitmouth. --Me

Now, Steve Harley had suggested that I fill out the Husband version of the LB questionnaire and ask my H for feedback. Since this was our first face to face, I really didn't think this was the best course of action at this time. I think if my H and I can get a few more of these meetings under our belt, then it will be a good thing to do. I decided to go with my instincts on this one.

Hi Gang:

I have another decision point -- my H's birthday is Friday and I can't decide if I should send a card or not.

I would have to mail it tomorrow (Wednesday) morning. Here is what it says:

Front:
Today is a celebration of the gifts only you bring to the world.

Inside:
Spend your day smiling, knowing in your heart what a treasure you are and how very much you are loved. Happy Birthday.


I was very discouraged today -- my H isn't making any overtures toward me -- so far everything has been one sided -- me approaching him. We are hitting the six month mark of being separated. Lots of folks tell me that this isn't a very long time even though it feels like it.

Mort Fertel (famous marriage counselor) recommends sending a card or some acknowledgement but no gift. Something small to show you're thinking of them.

My wife and I weren't talking for a few weeks and our 2 year anniversary came up. I just said "I know it's not a happy anniversary but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you".

That was it. I'd sent a card then back off some.

Did Steve Harley give you any hope at all? It is interesting since Steve also had suggested that I fill out the H version of the LB questionnaire and ask my H for feedback. I have not done that yet as my H had a session with Steve so i felt i could wait.
Yes I think the card is a good idea. Then back off for a while. See if he contacts you to thank you. Remember, you can't control what he feels or thinks but he also has reactions to things. I believe, if you send him a card he will react in some way. even maybe just an email. do not assume he feels nothing for you and that you have to take all the action. Should he contact you to thank you then you can make a date. MelodyLane always has good ideas and she suggested to me I ask my H for help with computers. Does you H have any area of expertise you can ask him about? Even an opinion about something you are about to purchase? Any excuse to meet face to face is good. What about bowling together or tickets to a game? (that might be too much..but u know best).
At this point, MMM, your H might have decided that you are going to be a friend or an acquaintance. You want more than that.You have to be very patient (i have to be too!!)

Steve said it would be a difficult to get my H back because we don't have children there is really nothing to bind my H and I together. The thing I have to do is get him to have a different image of me and to believe that his best chance at happiness is with his first wife (me). Steve said that I needed to interact as much as possible with my H-- otherwise it is "out of sight, out of mind."

I will send the card -- but like you Gen, I am getting tired and this separation is taking its toll. My H is hurting me on purpose and he knows it. He knows I want to reconcile and we are just playing this little cat and mouse game. It is exhausting.

My H doesn't have any special skills per se . . .like computers. If I ask him for help, he will tell me that I can hire someone because he left me all the money in the savings account. I think that is how he soothes his guilt -- in his mind, he has taken care of me by leaving me money. Well, I hate to tell him (and won't tell him because he will get angry) but money isn't a subtitute for a life partner.