Yes. Yes! This should be written in stone!

My DH was abandoned by his mother AND father when he was young. Father was an alcoholic wife-beating country-western singer and mother chased him all over the country, dragging the kids along, neglecting them, until the kids were taken away for good.

I know this is extreme compared to what your W did, but my point is, that now, even as an adult (and finding his mother again at the age of 25), DH's mother has NEVER apologized for her part in destroying not only the family, but for destroying her children's childhoods. The rift is wide. I don't even see her doing that on her deathbed. Her shame AND pride are too great.

6's W-- fix this now with the truth.

I also think that after you and your W have both talked with your oldest, you should be openly supportive of your W and oldest building a better relationship. You may need to tell him that you would like to see this happen. He may have gotten a subtle message from you over the years that you think it's fine that he not have a relationship with her. Now he needs to know that you don't think it's fine any more, that the best way is to build a family that works for everyone, and that he is an important part of that.

You will be grandparents together some day, almost certainly. How do you want your W's relationship with grandchildren to be? Time to lay the foundation for that now.

You are getting some great posts here. It is nice to read a thread where all parties want to improve, and all are willing to try.

I have been thinking about your comments about being 2nd choice. This is something that will be with you for a long time. We have discussed how her A was because of feelings, and not a logical thing. This is the same for you. You have feelings about being in second place, and though logic says she wants to be there (as many have pointed out to you) the feelings persist.

Logic does indeed show she wants you, but feelings are feelings. This may help you understand how she could have an A with no real reason for it. Often we act on our feelings - the way we treat other people reflects how we feel, not how things really are.

Note that I said "sometimes." It is not always the case. You are feeling like you are in 2nd place. I wonder if it affects how you talk to her, and how you treat her. You may want to ask her what she thinks about it. Recovery sometimes requires us to act contrary to our feelings. This is logical, but please share your thoughts on it.

I would guess that it is not the way things actually are now that holds you back, but the way you feel about what happened. As JL, and others have said, it is time and patience and ACTIONS that change feelings. Continued positive actions on her part, and accepting actions on yours.

Your actual recovery may depend more on you being able to believe it can occur, than on any other thing. Your feelings will play a big part in this.

Isn't it interesting what we learn about our selves?

Your W is learning. She doesn't like some of what she has learned, but I believe she has hope that this can turn out for good in the end. That hope enables her to stick around and try.

Many times, the "feeling" is to run, and not to face the mess that was created. She is not running.


Lets ask some questions -

How could your W prove to you that she wants to be with you, and that you are not second place?

What could she do that would make you change your feelings about this?

Could she do more than she is already doing?

If yes, then spell it out for her.

And last - How are you doing really? Deep down in side? And is there any thing we can do, or that she can do to help right now?

SS

SS,

I'm not sure what she can do about me feeling like the consolation prize. The facts are she abandoned me and chose him, she continued choosing him until he dumped her, and then for another 6 months she wanted nothing to do with me. After that for another 9 years she didn't really seem to want me either. So I am feeling like the second choice or worse, because that is what I was for a long time.

Now she says I am her first choice, I just don't feel that. I guess this is just another thing I have to think about and see if I can live with it. We do have time, maybe it can be enough for me that I am the one she wants now, I don't know yet.

I do think it may help for her to tell me why she thinks I'm better than OM. I just need to be ready for the conversation emotionally.

HELP,


I asked wife not to read today so I could post this and get some help.


I may have screwed up a bit. I called our oldest to ask him to talk to W and the conversation did not go well. He did know about the A and has talked with his siblings about it, he was not sure I knew. He had his own 6 year plan and was going to confront both of us about it when his little bro's were out of the house. Maybe I place too much emphasis on the need for parents to raise their kids.

I told him we are trying to work things out and that his mother wants to make amends. He said he will never forgive his "birth mother" and that he is only polite to her because he was raised that way. So I said "This has been hard on me too and I have been a good father to you, I'm not saying you have to do this but I am asking you to do this for me and for you, not for her." I also said that maybe he could help her be a good mom to his siblings. He said that he will think about it but as far as he is concerned she will never be a good mom. I'll call him later.


Anyway, help!

6, I don't see anything wrong with that. Honesty is the key now. And your son needs to be able to be brutally honest with her and you. She's his mother; he needs to be able to be her child for this, no matter how old he is, and she needs to step up and be the adult. It might right the wrong a little for him to feel that correction. Plus it's a great lesson for him to see her humble and remorseful, and to see you both working on your problems instead of walking away from them as you have all these years.

(Have I told you how impressed I am that you are doing all this?)

btw, he may say now he will never forgive her, but seeing her do the right thing, and seeing her spend the next 5, 10, 20 years continuing to learn from her mistake and still do the right thing, may erase that determination of his to hate her.

6yrs:

Very insightful son you have there.

Look what your 16 year plan has wrought.

You can state the "she had the A" and "she broke this", but you didn't do anything about it for 9 years.

Sad.

Had she not moved, you would still be stuck in the same place.

Good thing she moved.

Please decide to start REALLY working this thing.

Because you can have a profound effect on the REST of your childrens lives, for the better.

LG

Thanks for the support CatPerson,

I am trying I still don't know where we will end up but I'm working on it.

LG,

I know I share some blame here, but to be fair MIL gets the credit for getting things moving. She is a smart lady and I am pretty sure if the 2x4 had not worked on W then I was going to get one next.

I wish I had a MIL like that. Instead, I got a schizophrenic narcissist who created most of the problems we deal with today. Another good reason to try to keep this marriage you have.

This note is to everyone,

I really appreciate all the help and I know you are all giving me your best. I know I say this alot but I am grateful. I hope I don't let you down if I cannot get past all of the hurt in the end. That is a long time away and I am going to work on this. I am also going to do my best to help W become a good mother. I'm going to do that even if I can't stay and even if it comes to D. I can promise that.

your son is acting on emotion right now, and as you can see, emotions change daily. Sometimes hourly.

Let him have some time. Let your W show him, with her actions, that she wants to do better.

WOF,

I'm going to let it sit for now. He has not agreed to sit down with her yet. I'm not going to make him do it but I am going to ask him again. I will also do my best to tell him that he doesn't have to promise to forgive but that he will be more of a man if he at least listens to her.

There's a common saying here that any BS has every right in the world to leave, and that no one will judge them as anything 'less' if they choose to leave. We all have our breaking points. I do think that the next 6 years may surprise you, if you both truly dedicate to following MB principles.

I can see you trying to reason with your son, explaining why you are choosing to give your wife another chance, and that explanation will be exactly what YOU need to hear.

Your son is in the same position you were not too long ago. You can guide him through his feelings, I am sure of it.

I'm not so firm on why I am doing this right now. I'm doing it for the kids mostly. It would be better for them if we did not get a D and I was already committed to the next 6 years, so we are trying to make it work.

I'm sure more why's will come along as we work on it, but if the kids were grown already I would leave today. I recognize that those feelings can change and I am working the program.

6
Your son is so very angry. And I'm sure there is fear there too. He doesn't want to open up to her because he doesn't trust her. Sound familiar? Unfortunately, a lot of the emotions you hold he does too, but from a different angle.

She's going to have to hear him out, anger and all. She's going to have to stand there and take it. However, there should be some rules (respectful). Might not be plausible for a 20 year old who has been dissed by his Mom for his entire life. Matter of fact, doing this with a counselor might be smart.

He feels like you 6, the others may too. This is going to be tough and he's going to need lots of time. This will not happen overnight. She's going to have to be honest, consistent, loving and trustworthy for a long time before he's willing to take down ANY walls. You can understand that, right?

HE should get into counseling along with the others. They all may need to express some of this anger in a place where it won't further damage the family.

You've got your hands full 6.

6YEARS,

Don't have much time but I thought I would offer my thoughts on your son's reaction to things. You have received some great advice today but I would like to put in my $0.02 which is probably worth half that until the economy gets sorted out.

You said
Ok first of all you DID NOT screw up by talking to your son. You did exactly the right thing. You also have a piece of information that is crucial to addressing this family and the pain it is in.
6YEARS, this last quote is GREAT NEWS. I am not kidding. Here is why I say this. One the kids know what is going on, so your W's apology and changes in behavior are linked to something that now makes sense to them. Further,it clears the air for her to speak with them. I think she should speak with ALL of them at once and you should be there as well. It seems this family is UNITED in the knowledge that she had an affair and has not been there as a Mother.

That is good because it means you all can set goals to address this. Your kids need to "allow" your W to be the mother she wants and intends to be. Your W now KNOWS she has not been that mother not only in your eyes but those of the children. Forgiveness is earned, but it is a valuable lesson for them to learn. They will learn what it is to seek it, and what it is go grant it.

Now to your oldest son. You should be proud of him. He has been defending you, while suffering from the pain her betrayal brought to the family. He will NEVER recover his younger years when his mother was absent, but what you need to explain to him is that in the future he will NEED his mother. He will marry, he will have children, and hopefully your W will become as supportive of his marriage as her mother did of yours. Your W has a role in his life yet, although she messed it up in the past.

Also your son is hurt as he like you have finally come to face the reality of what happened 10 years ago and what has happened since then. Give him some time but make this a family meeting where your W addresses this. She will be shocked they know. She will be hurt they know. She will be relieved that they know. It will be tough, but 6YEARS a lot of complications have been cleared away because they know.

Even your twins are old enough to understand all of this and the others will be happy to get the elephant out from under the rug of their lives.

I would seek some counseling with a very good counselor on the best way to handle this meeting. Honesty is really required, I think all of your kids crave HONESTY and OPENNESS.

Just my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Wow, how perceptive of your son at ten years old to realize his mom was having an affair. Or was your WW and the OM that sloppy in hiding it or were just plain blatant in front of the kids.

Did you ask oldest son why he never told you what was going on, or how he knew?

TR has a good question. It's a good question because the answer to it is really more about y'all's relationships than with why a 10 year old wouldn't tell you. It could have just been the kid thing, where a 10 year old doesn't even contemplate involving adults in his worries. But it also could have been a pattern of learning in your family - an unhealthy pattern of learning where nobody connects with anyone else.

For example, my parents were the kind who, if they got mad at each other, they just didn't speak for 7 or 8 days. By then, the sting had gone away, and they just resumed to being married again. But that issue never got resolved. So all the issues just heaped up on top of each other until it was too high to climb over to see each other.

And boy, did I pick up that nasty habit.

What habits are your kids getting from you? This would be a perfect time to start delving into all that, so you can ensure that your kids all learn healthy relationship skills and can throw out the bad ones.