SWW,

I don't think she had the A to "mess with you". I think she has done this since day 1 with both sexes and you just "caught her" this time.

I agree, she has manipulated him daily, but not in the ways he thinks.....

Please...PLEASE...listen to these people. They are giving you solid, un-biased observations based on your description of this ordeal. They have your best interests in mind.

You sound far too intelligent to allow yourself to be manipulated again and again. Step back, look at this objectively, and apply the logic that I know you possess.

You cannot survive this thinking one thing logically but basing your actions totally on emotion. I remember those days vividly. I would read a post or comment here (especially Stella's. LOL), agree with it 100% and even acknowledge so, but would then remove myself from the opinion and go back into my emotional distress and try to do it my way because of my feelings and fears.

Even you can see what doing it your way has gotten you.

You youreself made the statement to me several weeks ago that you KNOW that you can survive without her. Do you REALLY know that yet? It's one thing to say it during a moment of anger, but another to actually move on and do it.

You stated that you feel obligated to continue for the sake of your children. I propose that you are doing your children MORE harm by allowing them to continue to see dad being manipulated and mom emberassing them. Is this the type of marriage you want them to have as adults? I assure you their relationships will mirror what they grew up seeing as "normal." What you are showing them is FAR from "normal."

I am praying for you, I KNOW how hard this is. However, I also know what a tremendous sense of relief and joy you will feel when you finally do see the reality of this logically and do what you fear the most.

If R is the ONLY thing that will make you happy, I hope you achieve it, but I know from experience what a fine line it is between feeling desperate to save the M and then conversely feeling complete freedom from it and its drama.

Stay Strong!

Stella, onlyU, ab3;

Y’all are right. Hey, I was having one of my backsliding couple of days thingie. Had a real interesting experience that when I recount for you may result in a few 2X4’s and “what have we been trying to tell you’s???!!!”

I was lying in bed last night, feeling a sense of panic coming over me like a panic attack or something. I didn’t sleep at all Sunday night and fell asleep last night at 10PM only to wake up at 1AM and not able to fall back asleep. I don’t know if any of you have experienced this anxiety feeling but it was pretty severe. I started praying for wisdom, guidance, strength…and sleep. I told God I was reaching the end and didn’t know what I had to look forward to. I think he knew, well of course he did. I was reaching a pretty serious moment though.

All of a sudden I felt totally relaxed, like I was drifting on the bed and the word “discipline” came into my head, I started thinking about the word very hard, where it came from all of a sudden, and was getting all sorts of thoughts about discipline and how it pertains to my life right now. I realized I have not been acting with discipline at all. I have been expecting God to answer my pleas without any responsibility or real work on my part.

I have been trying to mentally avoid this “life trial” instead of facing it head on so I could grow as a person and come out stronger on the other end. Oh sure, I have been plan A’ing etc. getting a plan B together, but really I have been anxious about trying to control my WW and her actions instead of working on myself. I have been completely neglecting myself thru this entire thing.

I decided on a number of concrete first steps:

1. No more drinking wine during the week.
2. Get more sleep.
3. Keep appt with Harley’s but no expectations for miracle solution.
4. Stop the manipulation attempts and checking up on WW from afar.
5. Exercise every day.
6. Lose a couple of pounds.
7. Eat healthier.
8. Take a class on a computer software program I may need for a civilian job.
9. Get my shirts and suits cleaned for the day that I return home.
10. Read more.
11. Daily envision my life as a successful corporate executive that dresses nicely, works hard and takes care of his kids most of all by spending quality time with them and listening to them.
12. Continue to pray for wisdom and for specific outcomes if it is His will, but to pray for strength, resolve and discipline.

There were more but you get the drift. My WW is either going to change or she’s not. No amount of manipulation on MY part is going to do that. Why am I asking her to wear her wedding rings? If she doesn’t want to she’ll just be resentful that I asked her.

I have to do this stuff for ME and my kids. My WW is avoiding pain and responsibility by partying and sleeping around. She does not desire to grow as a human being because that requires facing pain and difficulty. A life truly lived involves a lot of pain, and to deal with that pain requires love and discipline.

Sorry for the long post and philosophical ramblings; just what’s on my mind. Oh yeah, I slept like a rock until morning.

You know what? That's perfect and shows that you are growing through this process. Very normal, very much what all the other BS's experience. No 2X4 necessary. You aren't going to be PERFECT through this. As long as you are moving forward, YOU can feel like you are making progress, that's all that matters.

We are here to be your support and to give you the clearer version sometimes from the outside looking in at what the wayward one is saying and doing to you.

A personal Recovery plan is very important as well. It's the only thing that has worked for me this time around. And it did make a difference for my spouse in his behavior towards me. BUT that is NOT why I did it. I did it for ME. And I will continue to do those things for ME. I find that when I am stronger (disciplined), everything is easier to work through and seems like it's not as heavy a load and all will be well.

Keep up the progress.

Thank you for these points for consideration.

I shall try to apply these to my life.

Good going!

These points of self inflection are a great start. Remember, by working on yourself, you ARE improving yourself as a husband. Obviously, it may not be with your current WW, but the best lessons in life are learned the hard way and you will be a better, stronger mate in the end.

OnlyU is exactly right, do these things for yourself, NOT in an effort to win back WW.

TRUST ME, in time, your WW will realize what she's giving up and wish to R. The question will then become whether or not you CHOOSE to. It will all be up to you then...get it?

You have admitted that WW will have to change DRASTICALLY for her to be a healthy mate and mother. Of course I believe that God CAN change people...but your WW doesn't exactly sound receptive to His Hand in her life.

Take care of you! Draw closer to your kids and your faith. Nothing negative can possibly come from either of those things, regardless of what happens in your M!

You are right about the wine.

I believe wine is a depressant especially white wine.I found that the following day after drinking wine I would be over emotional, tearful and overwhelmed. Not the best way to deal with emotional problems.

Yep. I love a glass or 2 of red wine with dinner, it soon turns into whine, however...

Sorry, that was terrible but I couldn't resist.

Ab3,

Heading to my cousins wedding this weekend with the kids in the NC mountains. My whole family will be there, except WW that is. She got a job working for some friends who do event planning and she is working Sunday's home opener, I think she is also freaked out at the prospect of seeing my faily again as she knows they know, and thus she has cut off all ties.

I leased a house with a friend in DC. It is month to month. He is telling everybody at work how great it is, that I cook most nights (I have always enjoyed cooking) and clean up (I honestly don't mind) and am neat and easy to live with.

The word is spreading, apparently these are attractive qualites to a lot of women...other than my WW that is, but oh well.

Cheers,

SWW

I could use a little prayer help today if any of you can give me a minute of your time. My headhunter is having lunch with one of the companies about my resume.

I am sure if you said a little prayer for SWW HE would know who you mean.

Thanks,


SWW

Got it and Did it! Best of luck, keep us updated!

SWW, your silence worries me. What's going on with you?

Been thinkin' about and prayin' for 'ya.

Hi Ab3,

Have to travel again, leaving again tomorrow till end of next week. Had a great weekend with the kids at the wedding though and things progressing nicely with 2 job offers. With what i'll tell you below though, i am not sure it is the absolute right time to go home yet.

Until I can schedule a couple of days where I know I'll be avail can't set anything up with Harleys, schedule to fluid. I don't even know my schedule (flights etc.) for the next 2 weeks.

I have been in a sort of modified plan b. I just haven't been talking to WW at all for about 10 days. She has started texting me and emailing me etc.like you said she would, but I only respond when it's really necessary. She called DD while we were in N Carolina for the wedding to tell her that we were all invited to TX for Christmas and when DD asked if I was included WW said of course.

Thing is, like you did, I am now seriously considering the viability of this M. WW is not going to change unless under duress, and then what kind of change is that?

I am starting to have health problems. I went to the doctor and my blood pressure was 147/105 (it's normally 115/78 or so). Doc asked about stress and I said heck yeah. I now have to get my bp tested twice a day for 3 days in a row.

I have also been having horrible nightmares of driving or being a passenger in a car/boat/golf cart/18 wheeler and running off the road over a cliff. I have also been having nightmares of people being killed in front of me by having their throats cut and then people coming after me.

Possibly 1 of the most embarrasing things ever happened to me yesterday. I was reading an award citation for a senior officer who had received a meritorious service medal. In the middle I was overcome with panic and started shaking really badly and couldn't breathe. I had to hand the citation to someone else to read and people thought I was going to faint. I made up a lame excuse, and thank goodness I had given blood that AM and still had the bandage on my arm for cover.

This to a person who frequently has to give speeches and briefs off the cuff and on the fly to hundreds of people with little lead time. I have no problems whatsoever with public speaking.

Talked to my sister, the psych major afterwords. She said SWW, really, enough is enough, your situation is now seriously affecting your health. Your dreams shout, "I am out of control" and your adrenalin is pumping so hard that the addition of 1 small amount of stress caused you to panic.

I am walking everyday (I'm scared to run after what the doc said) and trying to simply not think about WW and her whereabouts. I think it is helping somewhat, but then again I am not so sure. More later.

Thanks for the check-in.

SWW, You've got the prayers on the job front.

The only time in my life I've been monitored for high blood pressure... At the time of my retirement/potential D. I did the 5 day study monitoring BP 3x a day. Strangely enough, it was at it's lowest within one hour after leaving the GYM! What does that tell ya.

Dreams: I had a recurring dream about hitting an overpass concrete post at superslab speed way to often. Same time frame.

I've experienced hyperventellation half a dozen times in my life. 5 of which were within a 60 day period mentioned above. Once when I almost sufficated in the bottom of a football dogpile, in a snow bank.

Without picking up any 2x4's...

Rignt now, what job option(s) is best for someone who's made a career from speaking/briefing, yet can't finish an award ceremony without almost falling out.

Can you bring your "A" game to corporate?

What career path is best considered? Picking a job that will benefit your M, or the job that will benefit you and your kids? Is the answer the same regardless?

A good friend of mine called yesterday to see if I had a free weekend coming up. He lost his 200K a year government supported job last week. He needs to come decompress "drink beer, play golf". 01 October sucks in our world.

Skipper, FY09 is closing fast, and you've got options.

-JKT

It's about time for an update, don't you think SWW?

Take a minute and read the last post on my thread. I can't wait to read a similar one here in the very near future.

Stay strong and true...you will survive this ordeal and come out grateful for the experience and its results in the end!

hey guys/gals,

I am in New orleans. I told you the doctor gave me bad news so I told WW about it and asked for D. Had a 2 hour telelphone call last night.

She is apparently either a huge liar or she is out of her mind.

She doesn't remember telling me that she "doesn't think she did anything wrong." She is adamant. She doesn't remember a ton of crap, it is weird!

She doesn't remember a lot of things she said that are so clear to me, but the weird thing is she sounds like she believes it.

I don't know what I am going to do. I go home in a week.

She sounds like she wants to try to get things back together, but...i don't know.

I told her I think I may be a dependent person, and she too. She told me "please SWW, you are always talking so far above my head with this psychology talk, I can't keep up with you."

I said, "I think you defintely need psychotherapy, you have an "i think you are going to abandon me, so I will leave you first" mentality.

For the first time ever, she agreed! She said it might be the case and she needs to see a counselor.

She insisted she is not seeing OM charlie, which worried me bc I didn't bring it up.

He!!, I don't know.

SWW...Sounds like she is once again trying to manipulate you by offering you a revised history of all that has happened. You KNOW what you've gone through, don't let her minimize this to you.

If you fall for it, you can count on being where you are right now again in the future. Would you EVER want to live through these past few months again?

Trust me, I fell for the BS TWICE before this last episode!!!
It will happen again if you let it.

Remember, "Those who ignore the future are doomed to repeat it!"

Stay Strong!

The above is possible. But she also might be realizing that she lost you.

It happened to me. As fast as you can flip a coin, it all changed.

JKT,

"The above is possible. But she also might be realizing that she lost you.

It happened to me. As fast as you can flip a coin, it all changed."

What happened in your situation if you don't mind me asking?

I am, like i think AB3 would caution me to, being very circumspect. I really don't want to waste the rest of my life, but I don't want to give up too easily either. For the first time in months the other night she actually sounded kind of scared, and remorseful. I know a lot of it is financial worries on her part and the fear of being alone. I have thought about something OnlyUcan told me and I think she is right. I think my WW really did fall for this guy and it wasn't "just about sex."

I took the orders by the way, in this economic environment I need to be safe. I can opt out early if I need to due to a certain circumstance that is unusual in my community. The company i am looking at says they need some time to get funding. God has truly taken care of me during this in ways I am so grateful for.