Nor should you be studying the Bible or discussing his marital/custody issues with him.

Abuse is not a mistake. It is an intentional action, just like adultery, that serves selfish purposes while causing harm to the victim. Are you going to tell a battered woman to go back to the man that put her on life support so he can have a second chance? A second chance at what - killing her???

MMM is free to try and earn a second chance, but he has no obligation whatsoever to give her one - even if the abuse in this case was not life threatening.

{what the percentage split is, I don't know.}
I agree it is hard to tell.

{Like Gen, I have been in and out of counseling for years -- I've recited these stories to therapists as I have done here and not one has ever pegged me as abusive. it was always a diagnosis of depression and I don't recall being given any techniques to try except for "try not to be so irritable or count to ten before you react." I've learned more from the above resources than I ever did in counseling.}

All therapist have told me the same: you are depressed. Except the top noch italian one i mentioned in previous posts, she said i was abusive and she added: If i were your H i would run as far away from you as possible. That hurt and it was 4 years ago, but I still did not change.That's bad.

{I don't believe that my physical appearance (getting all dressed up, etc.) will lure my H back into the marriage. I don't believe men are that shallow (some maybe, but not all, and certainly not my H.) }
You know your H best. However he is a man after all and they are lured in general, by physical appearance no matter how smart or dummy. You do not have to look like a bimbo. Just look your best.

I started a thread on GQII to address this issue. I suggest you check it out when you get the time.

How is that working for you. He's said he has no interest in discussing reconciliation. Unless he is initiating conversations, it's YOU who is not respecting his stated boundary here.

If he doesn't want to talk reconciliation and you call him up and try to discuss this, you are Love Busting.

I don't have the sense that he's calling you. So if that is the case, he's respecting that you don't wish to talk unless it's about reconciliation.

So why are you unable to respect his boundary?


Well, that's a decision only you can make. I think you CAN apply MB even if he doesn't want to. You can eliminate your LB'ing behavior, such as the example above if you wish, regardless of what his level of involvement with MB is.

If it helps, think of it this way, he's plan B'ing you right now. So he IS engaged in MB. He just doesn't know it yet.

So you can eliminate LB's and meet any emotional needs he's willing to allow you to meet.

You can do this if you want, regardless of what he does.

Should you choose to do this, I'd say my first concern is to respect his boundaries.


You may be a victim, but only of your own actions. He may or may not have been planning it. You may have also planted the seed of that thought and it took a while before he acted. You cannot know one way or another if he was planning, or if you planted that seed in his head. And knowing doesn't really help either way, so I wouldn't devote a lot of time to that line of thinking and speculation.


Blame shift and probably a DJ. Own your own behavior and stop trying to find fault with him, how he does things, etc. This is one of his complaints and the portion I've quoted above this demonstrates one of his primary complaints, that he doesn't feel he meets your standards.

So imagine how frustrating it would be for him if he gets the idea that you are for a separation, because you've been suggesting it, so he does it and you are even critical of how he takes your advice.

I'd advise him to remain distant from you until you can get your critical nature under control.

More critical. Not going to help. It's all his fault you didn't know about his desires.

Have you considered the possibility that your critical nature lead him to change his mind about children? Hypothetically, he may have been all for kids, and then after all the abuse you've heaped upon him, he may have wisely decided that children were a bad idea.

I think being against kids with you is a WISE decision on his part at this time.

That doesn't mean it will be a bad idea in the future. But looking at where the two of you are right now, it's the smart play.

Did you ever want him to be happy? What did you do to bring him happiness? It's not all about you. Your post is all about you, how he failed you, etc.

It's not all about you. Especially right now.

But was he happy, or did he, as he said, live in fear during that time?

Right now, it's probably more important what HE thinks, as he's the one in withdrawl. It's not yourself or us who needs convincing you get it, it's him, and that is going to take consistent effort.

Not the look at me, I've changed sort of cheerleading, but consistent effort.

So? Looking at his side of the street and complaining about his trash on the lawn is NOT going to make you more attractive to him. Especially if one of his complaints is your critical nature.

This never worked in 3rd grade, so pointing to others to get out of your own trouble still doesn't work. It really looks like you are doing this.

You said you want to have adult conversations, so let's have one about this sort of behavior.

Again, so? A bad cycle. So what are you going to do to clean up your side of the street? You have NO CONTROL over his actions and looking at his side of the street and his failures is a fruitless exercise if your objective is to entice your husband out of withdrawl.

So tell him in this many words or fewer, "You were right, this separation is a good idea."

And then STOP your tongue or fingers.

Don't say why, don't tell him what you are doing, etc. Just let him be right. You can say one more thing. Tell him thanks for doing the right thing.

If he asks, then answer carefully. If he doesn't ask, leave him alone. Less is more here, until he wants more.

Be careful. You can feel this, have an opinion, etc. But yours is not the only opinion in the relationship. Instead of couching it as he SHOULD (which is a DJ, you saying you know better than he does about what should happen next) express it that you would relish another chance.

Understand, even validate, but only if it comes up, his reluctance to give another chance.

If he were to say, "I don't see how it would be any better." instead of giving him the laundry list of things you are doing or are going to do, tell him you understand how he feels and respect that he feels that way.

He won't believe your promises. He'll believe your behavior. So don't tell him. Show him. One of the ways you'll do that is by validating how he feels, even if you have different feelings and differing opinions.

You can always say, "You may be right." which doesn't say he is or isn't. It does say that you don't think you have a lock on what is best for him.
I think that's a powerful message to deliver and then to live. No excuses, no promises, merely remorse. However, you cannot do that and then critique him about his side of the street. Not while he's in withdrawl.
It doesn't matter what you would do. He is not you, thinks differently, etc. This is DJ thinking. Just because you would do something a certain way doesn't mean he should. I would not advise you to share this with him, as it will likely come across as you telling him he's doing the wrong things, it should be done YOUR way.
Did your mom ask for this advice? Why not just be there for her, ask her what she would like, etc, instead of giving the unsolicited advice.
Probably not, my impression is that he thinks your behavior is the ugly part. So outward appearance is of little influence here.

I do think confidence MAY lead you to be less critical of others, less advice, etc. Your prior lack of confidence could have manifested itself in a critical, combative nature.

Well, he is/was a lot like me in terms of how he treated his wife. He has learned a lot of lessons from his divorce and is trying to help me see the mistakes that I've made/continue to make.

He is very spiritual person and we often talk about the religion and the things we are learning from our respective churches.

I know that "guy friends" are supposed to be a no-no but our relationship is very brother/sister. Plus, we are from two different races and neither desires an interracial relationship.

So, given all that . . .there really is no chance of me getting into a relationship with him.

Unfortunately at this time of separation, the card is one way that I am trying to show I care. I can't show him on a daily basis with my actions because we don't have daily interaction.

barf

Sounds like someone is smooth talking themselves into your panties.

Do your 'differnt races' include body parts that are not condusive to 'Insert Tab A into slot B'?

I know I can't control him. . . if I could, he would never have left in the first place.

As far as who's to blame in the end when a divorce occurs. . . I guess that depends on what side of the situation one is on.

good luck with your divorce

My husband hasn't initiated any conversations since he left in April. If I call, he talks but does not want to talk about the relationship. It took me awhile to "get it" but the last time I brought it up and he basically said no -- I didn't argue. I just said "I understand." And let it go. . .


I am working on eliminating LBs. I filled out the questionnaire for husbands (about their wives) like Steve Harley suggested. I am going to go back over it again to come up with more examples.


Do you think the manner in which he departed is acceptable? Do you think it was noble and honorable? He packed up in the middle of the day -- He should have been honest -- not lie and say he was in a training class all day and then come home and pack up all his stuff!!!! That's an LB -- dishonesty!!!!

I was willing to separate if that is what he wanted and felt would help him -- he talked about separation first. He knew very well that I did not want to separate. He said separating wouldn't fix things. So, I figured we were going to work on things . . .I thought wrong.


Yes, he said that he would not subject a child to my criticisms. I don't like that he feels that way and I can now see that he was correct -- a child should not have been brought into an environment we had. Here is where the problem for me comes in -- I now know that he has felt that way for a few years and he never said a word to indicate that was the way he felt. Is that an honorable way to handle such an important topic? To me -- dishonest.


Yes, of course, I want my husband to be happy. I thought we were working on the same goals -- a family, financial stability, etc. I thought we were on the same page with our future. He never indicated anything to the contrary. He said that he was happy as long as I was happy.


The only time he expressed any "unhappiness" was during arguments. The rest of the time -- everything was normal, or so it seemed. Apparently he was afraid of me all this time. . . .??? It just doesn't make sense to me -- how can you be affectionate with someone and make love to them and be afraid of them at the same time? Given these normal behaviors, I never suspected that he was in a global-sense very unhappy with our life.

I want to be kind here...do you hear yourself? You sound like a mentally ill(many of us here have been injured at times) person. YOU proved to your husband that leaving as he did was not only best but the ONLY safe thing to do. YOU taught him to expect irrational behavior from you.
He left you in the fashion that he should have.


see above.




anybody still willing to suggest this poster is ENTITLED to another chance. Her husband would be a fool to get near her in her current state of mind. I feel sorry for her...and moreso for him. Getting out ans staying out is in his best interests.

Does it matter if we like or agree how he did it? How is looking at his side of the street going to help in restoring the marriage? It's just another way for you to be critical of him. It's a losing strategy.
I don't disagree, how is being right about this going to save your marriage?
Do you think your criticism gave him the impression you were happy?

You can be right, or you can be married.

No one is saying your husband has nothing to work on. What I'm saying, as well as others is it doesn't matter one iota in addressing your stuff. It doesn't change the fact that you can only work on your side of the street.

I am trying to look at the whole marriage -- to identify my triggers, why i reacted the way I did. I'm not trying to deny the things I did wrong or justify those reactions. Each time I made a selfish demand, dj or angry outburst -- I had a choice and I made a lot of bad ones.

I know that verbally telling him I'm changing is not going to convince him of anything.

My mother is constantly wanting to leave my dad -- it is a daily conversation. Sometimes she asks me my advice and when I am asked, i give it to her. Other times, I just say "I'm sorry that you are going through this but I don't know how to help you. If you tell me, then I will." I can't solve her problems -- only she can make the break -- but I can help her if she needs me too.

I was trying to be empathetic by putting myself in his shoes and understanding why he doesn't feel like giving me another chance. I was never very good at seeing things from his perspective.

I have asked him for another chance -- not demanded it or told him I deserve it.

Thanks for the feedback.

I know you are telling yourself this, but go back and look at how you phrase what I think you are calling "identify my triggers"

The statements are typically judgmental. He didn't leave the right way, etc.

I don't doubt he lied. Why do people lie? Many lie to avoid trouble or conflict. You ARE (not were, you still are) the critical wife. It's not safe for him to say certain things to you as long as you continue to be critical.

I'm not condoning his lies or withholding the truth. But I do understand it.

So just start by believing him that it's his perspective. You don't really need to know why, you simply need to accept that it's his current perspective and he has rational reasons to hold that perspective.

You are welcome. It does look like you believe you are ENTITLED to another chance. And as others have said, the perceptions are important here.

I am not mentally ill. I have admitted that a separation was necessary.

Riddle me this -- if i was such a danger to him on the day of his departure, why did he even come home? He could have bolted and I would have never known where he was or how to reach him. He could have gone to Africa and I wouldn't have known. He could have served me with divorce papers the next day and only spoken to me through lawyers.

Only my H knows what is in his best interest -- not you and not me. Only he can make that decision.

Well, folks, thanks for your input. I'll check back in later. . .I'm heading off to my women's Bible study at the church. A study in the life of King David.

It appears as though he has. He also did what was in his best interests when he left. Abusers NEVER think they are a danger to the abused.