|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
medc - the child David fathered when he committed adultery with Bathsheba did not live. David mourned constantly for that child after it was born - then it died. My point about the story is that David would have NEVER married her had Uriah still been alive. It was brought up in this discussion even though I think it has no utility here. I am very familiar with the story. I was responding to another post. I didn't bring the child into this discussion....hence my comment. I understand the confusion though. I was responding to the poster that brought up Solomon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
David had other wives. He would have been raising children....or the wives would have.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
I have never heard that Uriah was doing this based on the law. I have seen nothing that supports that. I would be curious as to the reference.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
Hebrew law....talk to a rabbi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
he would not have been raising Solomon though and that is the child that was brought into the discussion. As for the personality type stuff....I think it's a load of prca. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
nah, I'll stick to the Bible. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
As a Christian, I know that Jesus was Jewish. So was David. So was Uriah. And, I know that the Hebrew law plays a large roll in the Old Testament and I bet you a dollar, you place a lot of importance in the OT.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
nah, I'll stick to the Bible. Thanks. BTW, I suppose you have studied carefully the Hebrew law contained in your Bible - unless you have never read the Old Testament.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
Actually, I am more of a NT guy. As for the law, yes, I am familiar that they were Jewish. Inasmuch, you would think that if Uriah was FORBIDDEN by law to go to his wife, they would have mentioned that....instead of making it a matter of honor for him. Also, since he was told by his king that going home was okay, I am pretty sure that would have given him a free pass to do so regardless of the law. At our church we regularly have pastors/rabbi's and other denominations speak. I would also like to tell you that I spent 4 years in a synagogue as an employee (albeit during my high school years). I have a great appreciation for their faith. As for my ignorance...your opinion of me is really none of my business. BTW...Happy New Year. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
I'm not Jewish. But, I owe my live and salvation to a Jewish man who taught about love and mercy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
I know. The smiley face showed I was being funny! No coffee yet today Cinder? But, I owe my live and salvation to a Jewish man who taught about love and mercy. Good for you. Me too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
**edit**
Last edited by Revera; 09/27/08 09:12 AM. Reason: Moderators edit for personal attack removed by poster
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
Well, thanks. And don't worry about hurting me. I am comfortable enough with me to not be impacted too much by the opinions of one I don't know.
I am wrong frequently...and will say so. It just doesn't happen much when I have time to reflect on things...and write them down. I suggest that if I turn you off so much (and I wasn't trying to turn you on...lol) that you make use of the ignore feature.
I can't say I feel that way about you as I have not really formed an opinion one way or another. I just read the posts that are written and respond. Only a few posters here have ever gotten under my skin enough to where I don't really hear or care about what they write...I dismiss it out of turn because of who they are.
I would be interested in the Uriah stuff. As I said though, David obviously gave him a free pass and as a king had the authority to do. Uriah used his honor to keep him at his masters door.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
And, I took your smiley face to the sign of a smart-aleck trying to one-up me. That makes no sense to me. You had just stated that you were Christian...I offered you a Happy New Year from the Jewish Calendar and then put on a laugh emoticon. I don't see how that could be considered "one upping you." But okay.
Last edited by medc; 09/26/08 09:46 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
BTW, the Jewish law in question is that before a man leaves for war he divorces his wife....in case he is killed during the war, so she can remarry. But the Bible is clear that she is the wife of Uriah...and not divorced. David inquired about her before summoning her...and yet he still slept with her after finding out she was indeed Uriah's wife. If Uriah had followed Jewish law, he could NOT have slept with her until she was once again his wife. Obviously, based on the words in Samuel 11:3, this was not an issue so he could sleep with her. Instead, he chose to stay outside his masters door.
Is there another law that is being called into question?
Last edited by medc; 09/26/08 09:58 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150 |
The Talmud rules that she was not married. The law was that before a man went out to war he was required to divorce his wife. This was a necessary precaution taken to protect the wife. In case the husband would die in battle and no one could testify to the fact, the wife would not be an "Agunah" (chained to her possibly deceased husband) and would be free to remarry. If, however, the husband did return from the battlefield safe and sound – the couple was free to remarry. Uriah, too, issued this divorce to his wife and thus, according to Jewish law, King David had relations with a divorced woman. King David summoned Bathsheba he "sent and inquired about the woman." If David, the absolute monarch, desired this woman and was willing to go to any length to fulfill his "fantasy," why did he first send messengers to inquire regarding Bathsheba? He should have sent messengers to "summon" the woman. It is evident that before David summoned her he wished to determine her marital status. Only after ascertaining that she was, in fact, the (divorced) wife of Uriah, did he make his advance.
David was a man of action, and he had found the woman who was worthy of being the grandmother of Moshiach. He immediately dispatched messengers to ascertain that she was divorced from Uriah, and did not hesitate to consummate the union.
summons Uriah from the battlefield, and tells him to go to his "wife." His intention was for Uriah to respond: "Your Majesty, Bathsheba is currently not my wife. I divorced her before leaving in the King's service!" For some reason, Uriah refuses to do so, and instead insults the king, incurring the death penalty. David, perhaps taking in to consideration Uriah's courageous service in his army, chooses to allow him to die an honorable death on the battlefield rather then be executed for treason. So far, that's what I have. Getting this stuff from some Jewish MBers
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
My understanding is that they actually divorced and would remarry after the war(men that went to war...NOT Uriah though). As she was called his WIFE in SM 11:3, this obviously never took place. I believe that is why David inquired about her....yet, he still eventually summoned her to him. If there was a divorce, as stipulated by the law at the time, it would not have been adultery (merely fornication).
My pastor speaks to this...I will attempt to find you a link as his sermons are all available online.
I don't know if Jews consider the Bible (OT) to be infallible and the "inspired" word of God. If they do not, as in the case with the Rabbi in question here, they could rely on word, laws and customs of the day to explain certain things. When I said I would rely on the Bible, it was not meant to dismiss other knowledge, it was a recognition that others may not see the Word as being the definitive source of information. When i see the word "wife" I KNOW that Uriah had not followed the law/custom of the time.
make sense?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
The Talmud rules that she was not married. The law was that before a man went out to war he was required to divorce his wife. This was a necessary precaution taken to protect the wife. In case the husband would die in battle and no one could testify to the fact, the wife would not be an "Agunah" (chained to her possibly deceased husband) and would be free to remarry. If, however, the husband did return from the battlefield safe and sound – the couple was free to remarry. Uriah, too, issued this divorce to his wife and thus, according to Jewish law, King David had relations with a divorced woman. This quote is from a Jewish site...askmoses.com This cannot be correct since the BIBLE clearly says it was Uriah's WIFE.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
The BIBLE does not place quotation marks around the word WIFE. It is used several times and it is not ambiguous....am I missing something that is ACTUALLY WRITTEN in the Bible?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153 |
And please, don't forget that you ARE married, regardless of how the marriage began. Not according to all religions, he's not.
|
|
|
|
1 members (TALKINGNONSENSE),
453
guests, and
77
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,618
Posts2,323,473
Members71,916
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
