Thanks Turtlehead, everything is very true that you said. I'll bring this up with my counsellor tonight.

UPDATE: WW just sent me a text message from the email I sent her on Mon morning. Don't understand why it would take her nearly a week to respond since I know she checks her emails at least every couple days. Here's the text, "If you still wanna to meet I'm off all weekend. Going out tonight tho so that won't work."
To me it's like she's trying to say that I WANT to meet up. Yet her original email was HER asking to get together to sign the paper, OR if I want, mail it. I get the feeling, correct me if I'm wrong, that she's testing me to see IF I'll still stay in contact? Waiting in the wings as you say?


Tricky Scenario:

I'll be leaving this coming Monday for a month to work out of town. She doesn't know this. She has also tried to get into contact with her BF that was away for those months when the breakdown in our marriage started to happen, WW moved out, and PA and returned at end of Aug. WW did not stay in contact with BF and as far as WW is concerned, BF knows nothing about what has occured. The BF has only responded to WW's text messages (there has been no phone or in person contact) by saying that, in a nutshell, she is not happy with WW's decisions/actions. WW can't understand this and is upset because WW is still assuming BF knows nothing.
The thing is that BF and I have stayed in contact this whole time, have talked about all the issues at hand, and we even have hung out a bunch of times. While I'm gone for a month BF is house sitting for me to take care of my 2 cats. I think if WW finds out about this, and all the contact, lunches, and hanging out, she will get VERY upset. Both BF and I say that WW NEEDS to understand.....not sure if she will. BF talked to the other BF of WW (all three very close friends) and I've been told that the other BF is very understanding of the situation btwn BF and me.

Not sure if this situation is right or wrong? Both BF and I agree that WW NEEDS to understand the situation (our friendship has developed becuase of the situation WW has caused), she walked away, decided to have A with OM, how is also a freind of this BF, and decided NOT to keep in contact with BF while she was gone for those few months.........

AND SHE SHOULD BE UPSET.

You have absolutely no business confiding in a woman about your marital problems.
You have no business hanging out "one on one" with a woman while you're still married.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING???

Amen.

You are vulnerable and should not be hanging out with this woman.

I know it's not right on so many levels. I don't like the situations I'm in. I don't want to be where I am now in life! All I want is my real W back, the one I still love so dearly, raise a family, and be happy in life together.

I will try to explain myself honestly here. Please set me straight if need be.....

I don't have ANY close friends that have gone through divorce or separations that can walk me through this. I have looked EVERYWHERE for support. Family, personal counselling, books, and here with A LOT of great help and support, BUT to have someone to talk to that not only has gone through this same situation less than a year ago but ALSO knows both of us for 8+ yrs as a couple gives more insight than I think anyone could. For that I'm greatful in her being able to see a bit different side of my WW that I never saw as her husband.

I'M pretty much doing the same thing my WW did at the beginning with OM. Confiding in OM for her marital problems and look where that got her. Though BF is actually dating someone else right now and I can tell you I don't want to cross the friendship line because I WILL NOT HAVE A REVENGE AFFAIR and ruin my hopes even more of saving my marriage...I can hear it myself what I sound like. I sound like a WS denying that there is anything wrong with this. Yet, I'm NOT the WS! I have NOT walked out on this marriage, I'm still here! I'm trying to learn, understand, move forward through this and become a better person/husband.

This also has the potential of breaking up a 14yr friendship the BF and WW have had. I don't like this at all. This BF actually lived at our house last fall for 3 months because her husband left her. My WW supported BF through her tough time and now BF isn't doing the same. I have questioned BF on why she feels she can't be there for my WW. That I feel that WW needs both of her BFs to help support her and that if I need to stop talking to her I will if that means she will support WW. She has said she can't support WW becuase of her own personal issues within her failed marriage and too many memories come to mind that my WW is too much like her XH.

Let me clarify that I have never been attracted to BF in all these years, nor did we ever hang out, talk or communicate any other way unless my W was involved. The talking only started when WW wife was questioning our relationship, getting involved with OM, etc and I was informing them and having them help me talk to my WW to figure out what was going on.

I have discussed our freindship boundries with BF. And the BF I'm currently talking to has talked to the other BF of WW about this situation. We all tend to agree that WW needs to understand that her actions or in-actions towards our marriage has led to new supportive networks being developed and friendships grown. This is NOT a blame game but IF my WW had decided to stay in contact and work on this marriage, not move out, not have an A, the whole world would look differently right now.

I'm pretty sure you have heard of the slippery slope...right? Because you are on it! Hope you have your best set of shoes on!!! That BF that you are not attracted to is depositing in your love bank. You may not want to admit that but it's happening. That's why it's called a slippery slope...you think you have your footing and before you know it you got a mouth full of mud.... Watch yourself!!!

Mindshare

Mindshare, yup know about the slippery slope. My WW slid right down it to the bottom becuase she wouldn't admit to herself there were deposits and wasn't aware of the love bank....... that alone opens my eyes. You are dead on....BF is making deposits. I know it. The awareness of it allows me some added control of the situation. I do know I need to be careful.



That said I talked to my counsellor tonight. After a bunch of sessions over the last 1-2 months weekly this was our last one for now....
I brought up the topic of the BF friendship and the counsellor responded that it's a tricky line to walk, but you do have grounds to be friends with whomever you want and you never know where or when a friendship will develop. The key is to be honest with yourself and other person that it's just a freindship and if WW asks about what's going on tell her nothing but the truth and be very open and transparent.
Counsellor also says it's true WW might get very upset and feel betrayed and it could kill any chance of recovery, BUT it could also cause WW to get jealous and really see what she is missing/loosing. Counsellor feels that WW is still holding onto "something" btwn us. That gives me hope....
Counsellor says give her time right now to be selfish, find herself, and feel consequences/fallout from actions. Let her see that you can move on, with or without her and allow her to be jealous, or mad that you are having fun, your growing from this, you're becoming a better person. Work on yourself to be the husband she would want to come back to. If given an opportunity to "Plan A" do it the best you can and leave her wanting....

I would also like to mention that I have sent in all my paperwork that WW's lawyer asked for in the letter to draft up the sep agreement. Was due Friday. Waiting game again to see how quick they get drawn up.

You are in the process of walking out on the marriage.
You are about to be the WS.

I have been in your shoes.

I thought "Oh, I understand the love bank, I know the signs, I can control/handle this." I didn't even talk to OM about my marriage because I knew better. I bragged on H to OM. I limited our interactions to mundane, trivial things. Home renovations, stuff our kids were doing, things each of us had done/seen over the weekend. Chit-chat. NOTHING personal.

And yet I got hooked and it almost cost me my marriage.

The "support" you're getting from BF is NOT worth risking your marriage. Look for support somewhere else. Find a separated/widowed/divorced group at your church. I think every Catholic church has them.

Drop the best friend NOW. Completely. That friendship is way too risky for you.

Turtlehead and others,

I'm now miles away from everyone working out here for a month.
Trust me I see that I'm on a slippery slope. I'm needy for attention and closeness with the opposite sex.... to try to replace those feelings my wife used to fulfill. I know I can get into trouble. Well I guess I have this month to dwell.

Just my thoughts right now. Not saying these thoughts are right! Sometimes I feel like it would be better to walk away from this marriage like so many of you have told me to right from the beginning and find someone new. Sometimes I think that if this BF and I do move forward to a relationship then that's what God wanted, because I've tried so hard to understand my wife's indiscression. She's made no effort, she seems done......

BUT and the same time I love my wife STILL! I don't want to walk away from her. I still think about her everyday no matter how busy I am or try not to think about it. I only wish she had these same thoughts as I. I want to forgive, rebuild into a better marriage. I only want to have her beside me......

Fog talk and rationalization, pure and simple.

Don't see this woman or talk to her again until you are divorced.

I'm glad you're pondering this.

You're glad I'm pondering this? Can you explain?


I'm not sure what I can do here, out of town for a month, to help my marriage. I can't plan A except for maybe an email... Plan B is still not where I want to be, nor do I see the letter having much effect on her with the exception of her realizing I'm not waiting in the wings. I assume some part of her must realize that I will move on?

I'm having bad dreams last night of her and OM, graffic ones of things we used to do.....I woke up almost sick!

I'm glad you're pondering the slippery slope and the dangers of conversing with BF. You're doing a lot of foggy justification and rationalization, but there is still hope for you if you cease communications with her.

I agree completely with Turtlehead. It's good that you have some level of awareness as that may...and I say may prevent you from taking the inevitable slide down the slope. You need to keep up that awareness and really to be safe you should cease these conversations. You are playing with fire. Didn't you say that the BF is involved with someone? How does he feel about these intimate conversations that are going on? Is she being honest with him about how she has become your confidant? If he has any brains he will see this as a major problem as well.

MindShare

AW3,

Your wife is gone and isn't coming back. There is nothing to motivate her to come back. You have no kids with this woman. She's not going to wake up anytime soon.

You are justified in divorcing her since she's been unfaithful. You can either put your life on hold to wait for a cheating woman to return, which she clearly has no intention of doing, or you could divorce her and move on with your life.

If you do divorce her, then my biggest piece of advice is to NOT date for a while. Your reason to date, a "need" to have the interaction and attention of the opposite sex, is not a good one.

The best thing for you to do is to heal first. You've been traumatized in a major way and jumping into another relationship because you're hurting is a major, major mistake.

Trust me, I've been in your shoes. I hooked up with a woman immediately after my divorce yet was still very much in love with my ex. Not smart.

The best thing I've done for myself is to take a break. I'm not dating (although I really like someone) and have welcomed the absence of the drama of a relationship.

You have a degree of freedom I don't in that you have no kids with this woman and can start from scratch with someone new.

Trust me when I tell you that the day will come when you will be very glad your WW is no longer in your life.

You're starting to go down the path of Drowningman, who hung on and hung on to a wayward wife for a loooooong time, putting his life on hold and being her doormat. He's waited and waited and she's gone on from OM1, to OM2, to OM3.

Time to let this one go, bud. It sucks and it hurts but the amount of hurt she's inflicting on you simply isn't worth it.

There is NOTHING motivating this woman to return to you or interact with you in any way. So why would she?

Pom, you have been saying the same thing this whole thread....she's gone, I respect that, and in a lot of ways I agree. I look at her actions and things said... But a lot of others say it's fog on this forum.... some of her friends say that she doesn't understand what she is doing, hasn't seen consequences, is being selfish, is immature and needs to grow up and right now she's fighting herself and trying to find herself.


It's hard to know when to walk away. It's hard to loose someone you were so close to for years and spent the growing up yrs, ~20-30, with this person traveling, buying you first house, raising a family (though we were just starting), talking about the future, and looking at careers.

Now she's walked away and seemingly so quickly and rash. I do understand that she was probably thinking about things for awhile. My only wish is that she could've talked to me. SHe never told me she was unhappy, never stopped saying I love you, was talking about wanting kids so badly how was I ever to see what was coming???? I think she really did want to try but didn't know how to go about it, was drawn in by OM somewhat????


I don't know what to do...I want HER, but at the same time to I say it's over and move on......moving on right now would be keeping in touch with BF and just being friends but not afraid to see what the future brings IF it started to drift that way????

Fog justification. We've already told you to stay away from BF and why. You're not listening. You're already having an emotional affair with her.

Sorry, that didn't come out right after re-reading. I'm not justifying the BF relationship.

I was trying to say that POM is telling me, and has been telling me all along, that my wife is never coming back, no kids to pull her back etc. POM is telling me to move on, divorce her.....so my debate is do I listen to POM and move on, tell myself to give up on my marriage, assume this separation will just end in divorce and start moving on in a life without my wife, which in that case I can be friends with who I please, do as I please, etc. OR.....do I try to forgive my wife for her affair, strive to be a better person for myself and therefore a better husband to her and keep hope that she will she the changes and want to be back with me, to face the challanges of re-building this marriage into something better and more special???

Which do I want, I want to keep my marriage, I still love my wife, I want to forgive her. I want a better marriage with the woman I fell in love with, not a second marriage/relationship or whatever may come in the future.


All the rest of you have given me so much support and have helped me through my rollercoaster of thoguhts and feelings. Being miles away right now on my own with no contact with friends etc. or WW, I'm feeling a bit different. Part of me wants to go back home to move on.....part of me wants to go home and meet with WW and give her the biggest hug and kiss I can to show her how much I've missed her!

I know I can move on without her now. This realization hit me in the last month....I've become much stronger in myself, I've learned so much! I think that scares me????

Alone, I worked my way up from crap jobs to a professional position, after 15 years of night college. In my second full-time job, which I held for 6 years, which was just an office clerk job, I was afraid that I would never deserve anything better. So I stayed. For 6 years. Because I couldn't imagine what else could be out there. I finally left for a downtown job (i.e. 25% salary increase), and once I got there, I kicked myself for waiting so long! Just as kids are afraid of what they don't know, we are often afraid of trying things we can't predict.

Go for it, Alone. Once you get out there, and get away from the influence of the negative thinking, you will be SO relieved that you can finally 'breathe.'

I'm really sorry she's out of the picture, but I am also so VERY hopeful that, once you move into your next stage of life. Please be hopeful! We are!

Must go NC with the OM.

AW3,

This would accomplish nothing because she doesn't care and doesn't want your hugs and kisses.

I DO support you. I want you to succeed. But you're paralyzed by fear. You're afraid you can't do better and are stuck by the love of what you're familiar with.

My point to you is that there is NOTHING to lure your wife back. Nothing. She's free and is happpy to be free.

She's known you since she was young. She's awakened to the fact that she has "missed out" on being with other people.

Well, you're certainly missing out on the great love you could have with a woman who has principles and morals. They do exist and are out there and you'll see for yourself that you've been driving a Chevette this whole time when you could have been in a Mercedes.

I'm not telling you to date. Quite the opposite. Take a break. Heal. Let yourself grow as a man.

But your wife is gone. She's not coming back. She's fogged out and it will likely take years, if ever at all, for her to "defog".

So will you hold your breath that whole time? Will you put your life on hold waiting?

And here's the part that you're not thinking about: What if she does return?

You'll likely be thrilled at first, but as often happens, you'll start to resent what she did and how much she hurt you. I think that we the betrayed often get caught up so much with getting our spouses back that we don't consider the very real consequences of them actually doing so. Recovery is difficult because once we get our spouses back and have them return we still have to deal with the enormity of their betrayal. From what I understand most recoveries have their initial honeymoon period, but the betrayed will have resentment creep in that will have to be overcome.

I've lived it. My mom took my dad back and was initially thrilled with his return but once she got over the fact that he was back she dealt with a lot of anger.

You have an opportunity to start with a clean slate and a woman who hasn't betrayed you versus one who has done a horrible thing.

You deserve better.

I've often asked myself what I would do if I went back in time with how I feel right now. I can't honestly say I would want my WW back or to try to work it out. I CAN say that I would have fought much much harder to secure my rights as a father and to keep my kids as far from a person with no morals as I could.

They deserve better than what they have.

Your wife would have to have a major awakening and come back to you extremely remorseful. That may happen years from now. But you'll likely have moved on by the time she does.

I understand, believe me, I understand your desire to want her back. What I'm saying to you is that you have no kids with this woman and can have a fresh start with someone else who hasn't betrayed you so terribly.

There are tons of good women out there.

Let yourself heal and then see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed once you do AFTER you let yourself heal.

Stay away from BF. That's trouble.