oh ok, as long as you know he will probably not stay sober this way. An alcoholic who is in withdrawal is not going to make it hanging out in bars around his drinking buddies.

You are right to worry since there is a HUGE CHANCE he will fail. A "recovering" alcoholic who hangs out in bars and does the same activities he did when he drank ain't going to stay sober.

In order to learn to live sober, the boundary has to be: REMOVE MYSELF FROM TEMPTATION.

If he is serious about getting sober, he would want to find a new hobby.

Let me expand on this. In recovery from an affair, the boundary is much more than: NO CHEATING. It is: "don't hang out with your OW," right? It means quitting the job or hobby if need be to avoid the OW. If not, then the WS risks multiple relapses and keeps the BS living in a constant state of terror.

That is what is happening here. He is hanging out in the same environment, risking his very shaky sobriety, and driving you insane. Every time he goes back into that environment, he is triggered. And eventually he will give into it because he is tempting fate.

He is playing games with his willpower, a game he has already LOST. He won't sober up and stay that way until he surrenders and just removes himself from the battle.

Do you see that?

That is why the boundary has to be MORE than simply: NO DRINKING. There needs to be a plan to achieve that and a plan to protect you from living in terror.

Thanks for the reiteration. Yes, I see it. I have not been living in terror, but this week proves how quickly I can go back there & I guess there is another boundary I didn't realize: keep our relationship/family SAFE. He's not keeping us or himself safe by going there. We're going tonight regardless, it's a commitment that was made long ago. No, I'm not going along to govern, and part of me sees he wants me there as his "safety net" too. But, you're right, it's a lot. Big load to carry. I'm basically agreeing not to be his mama, but instead to be the villain, in everyone else's eyes.

Yes, I see it. Now what to do...I'll be thinking...

Thanks Mel.

And Julie, this is not about telling him what to do. This is about your own peace of mind and your own much needed boundaries.

Thought I'd post a little update.

Life is good - really, really good. H & I are being open, honest, fun, in love and each others' favorite companions - in the house and out.

I went to the show w/him at the bar, and he did great - better than me, in fact. He was by me as much as he could be, resisted all temptation, offers, and criticism. We ducked out early & watched a movie at home. The next day, he thanked me for being me. Others (that haven't seen me since before the separation, and thus who have always known me to 'can't beat 'em? join 'em!') took note that I was stand-offish. I was, but I regret that. I do not mean to be. My life is full and I am happy & pround, and I regret that I let a buncha single, irresponsible drunks aid my backslide if for only one evening.

Anyway, H is now talking of quitting the band. All of his own accord. We'll see how it goes, things have definitely slowed down, and I much prefer this approach to telling him to do it. He's also starting a new job/career Monday - great news, as his current boss is a drunk & the crew H supervises is comprised of men who are all addicted to something.

Tomorrow is H's mother's birthday. Typically, every year, H, his sister, and his mother celebrate each of their birthdays with a celebratory dinner that has never included me. Only this year, I'm invited! It's weird, because I haven't seen his mother since I berated her at my door when she showed up unannounced in March, and his sister does all she can to avoid me although we do see each other from time to time. H seems like he'd really like me to go. And I was copied on an email in which his sister invited me & his mother responded she looks forward to seeing "you all". Weird! I'm not sure if I should go or not. It's her birthday! Can she really want me there? I know H wants me there...though I'm not sure why...but I'm not sure if I'd be a buzz kill? (NO I don't think they'll pressure or offer him to drink - it's just a phrase) I've already shown I can't always fake the smile. I don't want to ruin anybody's night. But, I really appreciate how H is always trying to include me on stuff. I don't have any grudges, I'm more shocked that they don't though. It's so weird! I really don't know what I'll do. I guess I'll play it by ear. Flip a coin? Call a psychic? I don't know!

Julie - Going to a bar is risky behavior. And YOU are drinking? No, no, no.

Beating alcholism is NOT about willpower, but living a different kind of life.

NO I am not drinking. Nor will I.

I used to drink w/them, to keep up, so to speak.

And, we went to the bar for his band performance. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, our lifestyle is completely different. And I know going to/performing at the bar isn't popular or even wise for H, it was one incident & we got thru it. Over.

Oh, good. I misunderstood. The bar needs to go though, because it is part of the lifestyle. He may do just fine for awhile, but sooner or later, he will stumble.

I used to work with a guy that was 20 years sober. He started stopping at the bar with us after work and just drank soda. We were quite proud of him. He lasted for a year, and then began drinking again.

Loud & clear, B. We will not make bars our hang-out by any means, only thing that took him/us there was the performance w/his band, which is his hobby, that seems to be dying its own natural death.

Anyway, looks like I'll probably go to dinner w/them tonight. Last night being Halloween, H was kinda bummed we didn't have any fun plans & ended up staying in w/a movie. So tonight we can do dinner & then something after...and I've got about 8+/- hrs to come up with a good something.