In fact, we are in what you call RECOVERY!

Here's the link to my most recent, in-depth thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2035226&fpart=1

I'm dropping in here to let anybody who remembers me and/or kept up with me back then or perhaps wonders about me now, know that H has committed to 100% sobriety and re-building our marriage.

He will move back in in 30 days or so. Now the real work begins. For now, we are talking a lot - we actually have OPEN and HONEST discussions with one another. I'm asking questions I've been afraid to ask for years and he's telling me things I didn't allow the opportunity for. I'm not nervous or anxious or worried or doubtful...I'm proud and optimistic. He has said some very mature things recently that help me feel safe already. It's different this time. WE are different this time. I am happy.

We (DD12, DS9 & I) will also continue with Al-Anon/Alateen, H & I are trying to think of a hobby we can both enjoy together, and I will probably RE-read a lot of the materials on this site like the EN questionnaire, POJA, EPs (DEFINITELY EPs), and I guess it's finally time to read Fall in Love, Stay in Love and the like.

So, that's what's going on with me. Big thanks to all supporters, you KNOW who you are. I am not gone from this place, not now!!

Oh Julie.......


YEAH......YEAH.....YEAH...... ...


So, the ten million dollar question.....

When did he FINALLY choose to be sober and how long has it been??????

and again congradulations......and welcome to recoveryville....

not2fun

When? Last Friday. So it's been 4 days! He never was the every-day drinker, but instead the every-weekend and once-a-week-band-practice drinker. So there are plenty of challenges ahead and we will face them together.

I'm not quite sure what it was but I do plan to ask what finally tripped him. I can tell you that as of 9/13 our LSA was null & void so after grieving for a couple days, I finally gained the courage 9/15 to tell him straight out I'm not going to negotiate this - you're either going to be my sober husband or my as-you-are-now ex. On 9/19 he came to me clear-headed and happy, saying he's ready to give it up completely. Last night he made the same announcement to the kids.

OMG Julie, I'm so happy for you. You worked hard and stood your ground, and now you will reap the benefits. Prayers for your recovery.

YAY JULIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so happy for you! I hope you and your hubby can re-build and be happier than you ever were before. My prayers are with you, honey!

Thanks for the support, and your prayers.

So, in addition to AA, he's got himself a Honey-Do list about a mile long "because there's going to be times I want to drink, so I'll need to stay busy" Kinda cool. The "us" hobby has got us a little stumped. He wants me to take up shooting, or rather to teach me to shoot. I don't really see the point, though I realize scrapbooking won't really serve him well either. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

All is well.

Congrats & welcome to recovery!


How about Martial Arts?

Your children are old enough to join also.

It could be a whole family event.

Mrs. Field and I have been involved for many years and when our children were old enough we brought them into our practices also.

We attend tournaments as a family outing! It has done much to inprove our DD's (16 & 12) self confidence.

DD3 looks forward to going to "HI YA!" with the rest of the family.

Oh Julie, I am so happy for you! Another MB success story! You stuck with the Plan and it worked!

Is he getting help? Stopping is not easy but he's got the major battle licked... the want to.

How are the kids taking this?

Prayers going up for you and your husband.

Congrat on moving on up!!!! I am proud. I have read your story and I just wanted to show my support!!!!

Thanks, everybody!

Mr. Field, I'd LOVE to do martial arts & have thought of that. H being in construction & generally achy & cracky, will possibly not want to and I will understand. Hmmm, perhaps yoga?

PM, the kids are elated. Well, DD/12 is - DS/9 has been kind of oblivious/wanting to please/keep the peace throughout this ordeal. Definitely not as involved if you will, but DD/12 was the real test & H knew it.

Don't think it's quite fair to call me an MB "success story" though...this revelation did not come straight from Plan B. I broke Plan B 7/1 when it all of a sudden hit me that I was OK with or without him - no more bitterness, hurt, resentment, fear, none of it. At that point I was OK with being my own IM and, admittedly, as a close friend pointed out, I kinda lead him on & the rest is history (or, in my first post of this thread).

So, technically, I didn't follow MB principles. I may be in the "modified Plan B" category, at best. Looking back, I'm not convinced that Plan B was the best way to go in terms of getting him sober. And that's how I always looked at it: Plan B him so he'll get sober. The side effect, as I saw it, is my new ME - I love him, but I love me more and even though there were times I wondered if I'd waiver, I didn't. I wouldn't. And the rest is history. Or, it's explained in my first post on this thread.

No regrets. None whatsoever. I am safe. Long road ahead, challenging and happy - I am confident of this.

Hey, shooting is fun! Get yourself a "Pink Lady" (38 revolver, easy to handle, a woman's gun) and enjoy target practice together!

Julie - Try the shooting. My ex and I used to go target shooting at a range all the time, and I got to be a better shot than he. And there is NOTHING like it to relieve stress! When I walk out of that place, it feels like a load was lifted off me, every time.

Really? I don't know. I worry about EVERYTHING. Mind you, nowadays, I'm pretty big into facing my fears. But...I'm scared! We'll talk about it. Thing is, can you call this a hobby? I mean, you go, fire off some rounds, and you're done. Right? As you can see this is really outside my comfort level. I bet H would LOVE it if I asked him for a "pink lady" for my birthday though!!

You might be surprised, you might like it more than you think. Yes it can be considered a hobby (albeit expensive for the rounds). There are so many things two people can do together that they can BOTH enjoy though...I'd say give it a try and if you really don't enjoy it, the two of you should brainstorm to find something else. The good thing about guns is, their value doesn't seem to diminish if they're "used", as long as they're in good condition. You can always sell it!

Julie,,,,,

For godness sake....DO THE SHOOTING......you won't know until you try.....Don't talk about it....DO IT....go and watch him do it and learn all you can first, then try it out...You love this man, work this hard to get him home and now you wanna talk about "outside your comfort" zone...

Let me tell you a story.....

A year ago, my WS was talking about getting a motorcycle. How it would be fun, something we could do together, his uncle and aunt go all the time and said it has helped bonded them, we would have fun shopping for the accessories, and so on and so on.

Me??? Nope, I was past that stage of being a daredevil, 2 people I knew had recently died in motorycycle accidents, who would watch the kids, I was not about to be a "biker chick", it was outside my comfort zone, and so on and so on....

We went round and round about it. He would show me bikes on the internet or accessories, I would blow him off.....

Do I need to tell you what happened just weeks later????....(he started his A)

I regret this episode in our M to this day. I wish so bad I could go back and take him up on this......but I can't.

And now in Recovery??? Well, he got his bike in May and it has been SUCH A WONDERFUL bonding thing for us......We love it....even if we aren't getting along great, we hop on and go for a ride....He went to Arizona in Aug. and he flew me down and we did a bike trip to the canyon, and experience I willnever forget....

So,,,,my point being is JUST DO IT. It may end up being something you BOTH love and can bond over, or it may be something you fight him on and wish later you did it like me....

And you know what?? Trying it out for him will deposit MANY MANY tokens in the love bank....

not2fun

ps...I'm soooooo happy for you still...yo

I hear you, loud & clear, you're right, I'll try it. FWIW, there is no fighting (WHOA - there's no fighting! We don't fight! Weird) but more of me "not so sure" about it. We discussed a bit more last night & he likes the idea of shooting more than karate or scrapbooking (he he) because it's more non-commital & we can do it whenever as opposed to being counted on to show up every week a certain day/time, etc. The kids keep us SO busy, especially DD/12, and things tend to come up pretty last minute so this makes sense. At the same time, I cannot lose myself in that again! We lived so many of our years together as business partners in the rearing of our children that I MUST be careful that NEVER happens again!

OH, I was right, YES I can have a "pink lady" for my birthday if I so choose. I'll pass tho, for now.

Funny you mention the motorcycle. In our case, I wanted H to get a bike for YEARS and he wouldn't, convinced it wasn't his thing. Finally last year gas prices forced him to bite the bullet & ever since it's been our thing. We'd sneak away for short rides on the weekends & such, we both really enjoy it. In fact, currently, that's the one thing we both really enjoy together! This year he upgraded (while we were separated!) so we're no longer forced to enjoy the hunk-o-junk we started off with.

Can we switch gears here a bit? I didn't start this thread looking for advice but as the days go by now I am. What should I be doing? What should WE be doing? Other than the obvious, that is, which is our meetings, keeping communication open, spending 15+ hours/week together. Where should I start? HN/HN? Would SAA have anything for us? FIL, SIL?

Also, H hasn't really said much to anyone yet, except for the boys in the band cuz weekly band practice can no longer include "a couple beers". Me, I want to scream from the mountain tops! I want to send a mass email, show up at peoples' homes & announce, invite family to dinner & tell them, heck I could throw him a party! (Er, not wise) I want him to be comfortable but I also want him making EVERYONE know - don't I? Isn't that an EP?

OH, and, I'm thinking I'll probably invite his mother to lunch. Maybe his sister too, not sure. But I do feel like I need to clear the air w/his mother. Part of me feels a need to explain to her how BAD she was for our family this past 9 mos, the other part wants to simply move forward. Not sure, but I don't think keeping it/her under the rug is a good idea. And, of course, I'd have to POJA this with H. Though I should have a good understanding of POJA first.

No rush on any of this, I guess. It's what I'm thinking of & will appreciate any feedback. Any thoughts? I guess I could use some guidance.

Wow guys, nothing? Something? Please? You know how I like direction.

Should I be posting over on the other board? But this is where everyone knows me. And lots of 'in recovery' & 'recovered' folks are here...

Help a sister out?

Okay sista.....I'll give a shot at this....

First thing you need to do is review in SAA the rules for recovery (or on this site..)....yes meeting EN's is important, but so is advoiding LB's. Follow Harley's four rules of marital recovery.

Also, this is the time where you two need to find RC things together. Try something new, even if you aren't sure one of you will like it.

Make sure the EP'S rules are clear and followed.......

And since WS is an alcholic, I don't think I need to tell you that AA should be an EP for him....

Mostly, you need to spend as much time as possible together, like you were dating again. Meeting each others needs of RC, Conversation, SF, and quality time......

About the family.....well, I would hold off on that lunch with mom. First off, you should have to tell her what she did, that should be H's place. He needs to do this....and no, it shouldn't be swept under the rug, at least not forever. Yes it should be POJA with H.

Take this time to heal you guys as a couple. And your kids. We have pretty much kinda cut out our family's so we can concentrate on us. Actually, I would talk with H about telling family and telling them that you would appriciate their support and patience as you use this time to heal your marriage. That way people DO know what is going on, but yet know why you may be MIA for awhile.......

its hard hard work.....let me tell you. Its even worse than during the A, BUT there will be days when it is soooooooo worth it........

Hang in there.......

not2fun

ps...oh....I forgot, I would print off the EN'S questionaires for you both to fill out. You don't want to bombard him too much, because he will become overwhelmed....but start out slowly, and you need to review the recovery stuff...BUT start with the questionaires, so that way YOU both know what each others EN'S are....

pss...I would stay on this board. There's way more traffic. But be warned, you don't get as much responses for some reason when you enter recovery. If you have a MAJOR problem you need help with, change your thread title.....

Hiya Julie



sounds like a friendly reaching out ....



be very careful when walking through a cow pasture barefooted .... you know you're going to step in something sooner or later

feeling like you need to clear the air is sometimes code-speak for venting - NOT a friendly reaching out at all



well then, listen to a different part of you .... this is a very bad idea if you are interested in relationship building with MIL ..... very bad



I am done with the phrase "move forward" ... it has no real meaning or intent of purpose

how about this: you "get along" with relatives
who says you have to like it?
no one
who says you have to feel all warm and cozy toward MIL in order to get along?
no one

get along with her in social situations and limit all other expectations and interactions




are you capable of being civil and getting along with a woman whom you do not necessarily trust or like?

if you are capable of this, it's what I recommend - why?

because it will make your marriage recovery better

it's a useful skill in life - knowing when to disarm and coexist peacefully




POJA this ... "How do you feel about keeping our parent's opinions and behaviors out of our marriage dynamics? How do you feel about being friendly and polite with our extended families and not allowing them to enter into our private business?"


going back to this:
.... this is CLEARLY an AlAnon NO-NO

Thanks, Pep.

Yes, I CAN "get along" with her to save face. Crazy part is, because I'm so much better/more confident/happier/self assured/clear headed now, I can do it w/o feeling weird or bitter or judging her under my breath. Why? Because I am HAPPY. With ME and with H. Pretty cool.

No, I do not desire a relationship with this woman. ONLY reason I bring any of it up is because #1-I don't want any underlying, unspoken tension remaining (some will recall my last interaction with her: she showed up at my door in...what...March? and I went apesh!t on her - yelling, cussing, carrying on. It wasn't pretty) and #2-to appease my H, not have him feeling "in the middle" or having to choose between us. He is very "close" w/his mother & sister. But, there goes my codependent again huh? That's not my place and so I won't go there. Besides, I DO think he's open (now, not ever before though) to agreeing to your idea: "how about we kick them to the curb while we live it up w/o their interaction" (that's what you said, right? )

I think I will get to the reading Not2 assigned for me. And, LET GO AND LET GOD!

remember that POJA starts with the following words:

"How do you feel about this ...?" (fill in your idea)

The other responsibility of POJA is when your H asks you how you feel about (his idea) you must be honest - not "brutally honest" but honest.

It's generally OK to say: "I need time to think this over. Tell me why you think this is a good idea?"

H and I sometimes go to a "double winners" meeting - combines AlAnon and AA --- it's the best meeting EVER anywhere .... at least around here.

double reality check!

and lots of laughter and support in the double winners group
very few fist fights

oops - I just caught this






who's face are you referring to?

Julie, to be honest - I think you need a sponsor.

I don't know! Mine? Hers? H's? Hmmm...I've never been asked to define the meaning of that phrase. How about, YES, I CAN "get along" with her, when necessary, in order to keep the peace? Not be b!tchy? Look unhappy? Cause tension? All of that.



I do. I always did, but now more than ever. Me, H, the kids, we ALL need sponsors! Honestly there's nobody in my group I want as a sponsor which is why I don't yet have one. I've got a couple of pseudo-sponsors, and I found who I want to be my sponsor while visiting a neighboring Al-Anon meeting. I could make the switch to that meeting but then the kids wouldn't have theirs...

Ugh, excuses. I'll get me a sponsor - a good one.

until you find a "good one" get a mediocre sponsor!
it's a sponsor - not a marriage
it's OK to change partners when you want to

my H has 2 men he refers to as his sponsor(s) - and another man he refers to as his "grand sponsor" - in the sense that he's much older (sobriety age) and can be called upon when others are unavailable

a sponsor will tell you when you are full'o'chit - if you are right away feeling very comfortable and cozy it's probably not the sponsor you need early in your recovery

look for a sponsor who appears serene - not a sponsor who make you feel good

My meeting is tonight & I know who I'm going to ask to be my sponsor. That's what you do, right? Just ask them to be your sponsor?

I could use a little help. I catch myself dealing out LBs & DJs. I always catch myself, but I can tell they'd become so habitual that I don't catch them till they're out. Given that, can you please give me your take on this situation?:

I just had a birthday. H got me a nice gift a couple days prior that I picked out, though my preference was to get nothing tangible. Anyway, what he didn't get me is a card. Now, this is MY issue - he was VERY good to me, VERY affectionate, cooked dinner, very attentive & even offered to console me when I had a slip (I realized that my mother didn't get me a card or call either, which hurt, so I went to the back porch & cried, he came out to see if there was anything he could do, I said no I just need to shake it off, which I did & then I was fine) I'm big on cards & H knows this. Well, that is presumptuous - he knew this. He does know it hurt me that my mom also got me no card. Because he made such an effort to make my day great otherwise, I made no mention of the missing card. I didn't carry resentment or bitterness either. But I'm left to wonder, now after the fact, is it something I should bring up? Or just wait a couple months, till HIS birthday, and get him a great card?

I don't want to hurt him or come off as if I don't appreciate what he DID do. Part of me says let it go, the other part says that being O & H means telling him I wish I'd gotten a card. It is, after all, very very early in his & our recovery. Thoughts, please?

Did he tell you he loves you?

I'm wondering why a card means so much to you? He apparently spent a fair bit of effort to celebrate your birthday, yet you didn't feel special?

If you think you aren't just making him jump through hoops, but receiving a written card is truly important to you, then next year when he is trying to figure out what you want, clue him in --- its easy, you just want a card! Be specific if any old card won't do - part of being open and honest is letting our spouse's know what we need.

He can't change the past, so why point it out to him now -- he has no chance to go back in time and fix it now. I don't think O&H means we have to express every negative thought that runs through our heads.

Personally I dislike nearly all store-bought cards. I'm picky and I feel that the sentiments are either lame, ill-fitting, or consist of low humor. I can never find a decent one. Do I use them? Not a lot. Anyway, perhaps your H has similar issues to me with store cards; picking one out may not be trivial. As a consequence I buy a lot of blank cards or make my own. It takes me time and I usually enjoy it.

Writing him a note thanking him for his thoughtful attentions might be a subtle hint that the written word is important to you.

- WG

Would you like to ask for a belated birthday card? Doesn't negate what he did do. You did enjoy all of it. And you would like a card.

Good points, thank you, and sorry for the delayed response. I will not ask for a belated card or bring it up. I thanked him that night & again the next morning. We both had real, true, genuine smiles & that's what matters. I am making positive changes and so is he - it's OK if, with that, comes my letting go of a card.

Tonight H has band practice. His second since going sober. Only tonight, he is edgy. He told me he wants to drink. Not get drunk, be stupid, but drink. Have a couple & let the creative juices flow. We talked for a bit, I said "this is where a sponsor comes in" (that's right, he does NOT have one) and he agreed, said he doesn't struggle thru the weekends cuz if it enters his mind he replaces it with the thought of something else productive & gets thru it. I reminded him that this is hard, but it will get easier, that I trust him and I will not govern or check up on him.

***But, writing this, the thought just entered my mind to call one of the guys & ask him to be EXTRA supportive to H. (They're all supportive, one more than the others) Anyway, I don't think this is a good idea because it's governing. He has to do this on his own. If he slips, there will be consequences - and he's started to move stuff back in!

It's scary, but I have to stay busy myself & let him deal with this. He considered not going but went because he didn't want to let the others down.

I can't be his sponsor! I wanted to cry, to yell at him, but I kept my composure. It's only one night. I sure as he!! hope he does the right thing. As he left, I said, "you got this?" He said, "yea, I got this". Gosh I hope so!

Eeeks, I'm also considering telling the kids & having them call him to let them know how proud they are of him. Yeesh, I still don't think any of this is appropriate though...

He didn't do it. Came home, was crabby, but OK. And I didn't interject in any way - I was panicked so I scooped up the kids & ran off to Target. Whew!

1 down, 62,000 to go.

He also apologized this morning for being crabby & wanting to drink. I reminded him we're in this together & to please not apologize for being completely O&H and sharing his feelings, even if they might hurt me!

It was NO fun waiting for him to come home, not knowing if we'd celebrate him getting himself over this hurdle or if I'd be kicking him out. I'm glad for the outcome.

I was supposed to have a dinner date w/a friend tonight but I've cancelled, as I think H really, really needs me right now & so a family-fun night is a better option for now.

Well, that's how it all ended...

Good for you Julie....sounds like you handled it sooooo well. yes, he was crabby, you didn't take it personally and it all worked out for the good....

Glad to hear it...

not2fun

Hey Julie

Haven't been on here for months but got a short chance. Just had to look you up

WOW!!!!!


Sounds like you guys are headed down a good road.

Just had to jump in with my 2cents.

Never did stop prayin for all of you.

Doug

THANK YOU!!!

That is so cool.

Tonight was Band Practice #2 since sobriety & no issues. THis morning we talked about the impending evening & the possible pressure/"stress"/urges that may come with it. H said he felt fine, hadn't thought of drinking at all this week or today but if he did, he'd call me.

Tomorrow we have no kids & a date. We will celebrate his almost-month of sobriety. Nice.

Good morning Folks,

I'd like your feedback on something. H & I were talking this morning about other people and their reactions to him quitting drinking/coming home.

To back up a bit, I told him it was up to him how he handled telling people. He's told his mom & sister, a few close friends and left a lot of the other "friends" (drinkin' buddies) in the dark. He said he's not going to tell them because they all have an opinion - "OH, you quit for her??" For some reason this bugged me & then, back to today, I asked him if he's sure this is what he wants. That it needs to NOT be for me, and if defending that fact to people is bothersome then our reconciliation is nill. He assured me that, yes, he's doing it for me - but first it's for him, then me, then the kids; he's doing it for all of us. He said that some people give him "a look" when he tells them and that hurts him. It hurts me too, for him, but doesn't surprise me. People tend to weed themselves out, good or bad.

So, thinking to myself that it's only important that his REAL friends & family support him, I asked him what his mom said. He said, "she's happy, but she asked the question: are you doing this for her?" I was shocked! Then I asked what his sister said? "She gave me the look and asked if I'm doing this for you. I said I'm doing it for all of us. She asked me if I'm happy & I said yes. Then she said, "If you're happy I'm happy""

He was hurt cuz while he knows he may lose "friends", he also knows his mom & sister are constant - and their reactions weren't what he was hoping for. I LOVE that he was looking for support from them, but I HATE that they couldn't just give it! As you may recall, at the beginning of my Plan B his mom & sister both were supposedly behind me 100% - their words - but that changed quickly. His mom has chosen to make no mention of his drinking & throw in my face MY issues, his sister has continued to lean on him & of course become a drinking buddy when convenient for her. They all claim to be very close.

So, today, I wonder: what do I do? Part of me wants to continue on our merry way, happy, focusing on & healing our family, the other part of me wants to call that lunch meeting I'd considered about a week ago. C'mon, why can't you support him?? He NEEDS you to!

H has been very O&H with me, and I've done a great job listening to & addressing his fears/pressures/concerns/urges/etc. and AA is of course great...but geez, how can these 2 people do ANYTHING other than sing his praises? Heck, my own mom raised her hands in celebration & began crying when we told her. Ugh, again, I am SO disappointed in them and sad that H's "battle" against alcohol is now made that much harder.

Can I help?

Julie, the thing is that you can't force or shame his family to support his marriage. If you try, all it will do is cause resentment. He has never had their "support" in anything anyway, so I don't know why this would this be any different. You have all the support you need between AA and Alanon.

...and this is what the voice in my head has been saying all morning. Strangely, the voice still has your accent Mel! Thanks for the reassurance.

D*mn them!

OK, got it out, I'm done. <--- love this lady!!

I need help today. I think he drank last night. I don't know for sure, the obvious signs aren't obvious so I have no proof, but something isn't right or "normal" at all - and last night was band practice, the main trigger/where he's most urged.

What do I do? My plan is to (gently) confront him when we're awake.

Please help me, I'm nearly sick.

Julie, is there some reason he continues to go to an activity where he KNOWS he will be triggered? When an alcoholic is committed to recovery, he doesn't go to the same places where he drank before. He stays out of the bar, so to speak.

I would confront him head on. Not GENTLY, but FIRMLY. "Gently" will be easily exploited by any half wit alcoholic.

I'm sure you've talked to him by now. Had I found this earlier I would have asked if you "Do you believe you'll get the truth if you confront?"

What are your boundaries? If have them, can you use them?

Hi. Sorry for the delay. Can't do this @work, didn't get a chance to check again before I left this morning.

Mel, yes there's a reason: it's his hobby & they had to practice...for their show this weekend...at a bar...which I will be at as well. Actually, I wonder if he's as "triggered" as I am? It's ME who worries, frets, and now suspects, but he just grabs some Gatorade & goes, then comes home.

You know why I suspected it? Mainly because he was in a really good mood last night. And I was a bit crabby/tired. He was a bit put off that I wasn't able to share in his good mood (like I usually do, I listen attentively & celebrate for/with him for not drinking!) so snuggles were lacking in bed. Kinda silly when I think about it now.

We talked in the morning but I didn't confront him. I'd figured out half-way thru our discussion that this was in my head. That, and like IRN said, I wouldn't have necessarily gotten an honest response. But, the ONE time he DID want to drink, he told me first. He didn't want to go but did for no reason other than feeling obligated. We talked thru it. He knew to call me if it got to be too much. We celebrated when he got home, sober. Crabby, but sober.

Boundaries are pretty simple: NO DRINKING. He knows this. I suppose anybody can be a "sneak" but I don't think he is. By the time I'd left for work I was pretty OK. I gave it some more thought, felt him out a bit as he called me throughout the day, and decided it was a false alarm. Perhaps later on I will share with him that I'd suspected he drank. But, I'm not sure.

This is hard on me too, sometimes. I can do it.

oh ok, as long as you know he will probably not stay sober this way. An alcoholic who is in withdrawal is not going to make it hanging out in bars around his drinking buddies.

You are right to worry since there is a HUGE CHANCE he will fail. A "recovering" alcoholic who hangs out in bars and does the same activities he did when he drank ain't going to stay sober.

In order to learn to live sober, the boundary has to be: REMOVE MYSELF FROM TEMPTATION.

If he is serious about getting sober, he would want to find a new hobby.

Let me expand on this. In recovery from an affair, the boundary is much more than: NO CHEATING. It is: "don't hang out with your OW," right? It means quitting the job or hobby if need be to avoid the OW. If not, then the WS risks multiple relapses and keeps the BS living in a constant state of terror.

That is what is happening here. He is hanging out in the same environment, risking his very shaky sobriety, and driving you insane. Every time he goes back into that environment, he is triggered. And eventually he will give into it because he is tempting fate.

He is playing games with his willpower, a game he has already LOST. He won't sober up and stay that way until he surrenders and just removes himself from the battle.

Do you see that?

That is why the boundary has to be MORE than simply: NO DRINKING. There needs to be a plan to achieve that and a plan to protect you from living in terror.

Thanks for the reiteration. Yes, I see it. I have not been living in terror, but this week proves how quickly I can go back there & I guess there is another boundary I didn't realize: keep our relationship/family SAFE. He's not keeping us or himself safe by going there. We're going tonight regardless, it's a commitment that was made long ago. No, I'm not going along to govern, and part of me sees he wants me there as his "safety net" too. But, you're right, it's a lot. Big load to carry. I'm basically agreeing not to be his mama, but instead to be the villain, in everyone else's eyes.

Yes, I see it. Now what to do...I'll be thinking...

Thanks Mel.

And Julie, this is not about telling him what to do. This is about your own peace of mind and your own much needed boundaries.

Thought I'd post a little update.

Life is good - really, really good. H & I are being open, honest, fun, in love and each others' favorite companions - in the house and out.

I went to the show w/him at the bar, and he did great - better than me, in fact. He was by me as much as he could be, resisted all temptation, offers, and criticism. We ducked out early & watched a movie at home. The next day, he thanked me for being me. Others (that haven't seen me since before the separation, and thus who have always known me to 'can't beat 'em? join 'em!') took note that I was stand-offish. I was, but I regret that. I do not mean to be. My life is full and I am happy & pround, and I regret that I let a buncha single, irresponsible drunks aid my backslide if for only one evening.

Anyway, H is now talking of quitting the band. All of his own accord. We'll see how it goes, things have definitely slowed down, and I much prefer this approach to telling him to do it. He's also starting a new job/career Monday - great news, as his current boss is a drunk & the crew H supervises is comprised of men who are all addicted to something.

Tomorrow is H's mother's birthday. Typically, every year, H, his sister, and his mother celebrate each of their birthdays with a celebratory dinner that has never included me. Only this year, I'm invited! It's weird, because I haven't seen his mother since I berated her at my door when she showed up unannounced in March, and his sister does all she can to avoid me although we do see each other from time to time. H seems like he'd really like me to go. And I was copied on an email in which his sister invited me & his mother responded she looks forward to seeing "you all". Weird! I'm not sure if I should go or not. It's her birthday! Can she really want me there? I know H wants me there...though I'm not sure why...but I'm not sure if I'd be a buzz kill? (NO I don't think they'll pressure or offer him to drink - it's just a phrase) I've already shown I can't always fake the smile. I don't want to ruin anybody's night. But, I really appreciate how H is always trying to include me on stuff. I don't have any grudges, I'm more shocked that they don't though. It's so weird! I really don't know what I'll do. I guess I'll play it by ear. Flip a coin? Call a psychic? I don't know!

Julie - Going to a bar is risky behavior. And YOU are drinking? No, no, no.

Beating alcholism is NOT about willpower, but living a different kind of life.

NO I am not drinking. Nor will I.

I used to drink w/them, to keep up, so to speak.

And, we went to the bar for his band performance. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, our lifestyle is completely different. And I know going to/performing at the bar isn't popular or even wise for H, it was one incident & we got thru it. Over.

Oh, good. I misunderstood. The bar needs to go though, because it is part of the lifestyle. He may do just fine for awhile, but sooner or later, he will stumble.

I used to work with a guy that was 20 years sober. He started stopping at the bar with us after work and just drank soda. We were quite proud of him. He lasted for a year, and then began drinking again.

Loud & clear, B. We will not make bars our hang-out by any means, only thing that took him/us there was the performance w/his band, which is his hobby, that seems to be dying its own natural death.

Anyway, looks like I'll probably go to dinner w/them tonight. Last night being Halloween, H was kinda bummed we didn't have any fun plans & ended up staying in w/a movie. So tonight we can do dinner & then something after...and I've got about 8+/- hrs to come up with a good something.