If you get to pick the counselor-how about the Harley's??

Harley's really expensive. I have called twice and spoke to Steve and I can't afford more than that right now. And plus my WH is very skeptical with phone counseling. I have suggested it but he's won't budge. It took me a very long time to even agreed to MC and now he has agreed but still I need to know if he's sincere enough.

I have requested all of the bank statements from his account for the past 3 weeks and it finally came today.

My Gosh - I can't believe what I'm seeing - he had spent so much $$$$ wine and dine, bought his bicycle toys, and paid for dance lesson with OW. The list goes on and on. All of the things I wanted to do with him for a very long time - he's doing it with OW. All of the fine restaurants I wanted to go - he took her there.

I don't know if I can go through with this anymore - I don't know if I want my M to work after seeing all of his spending. Unless I really agree with the Harleys - that we have to move out of state - it will be the only way.

Because next time if we go to a restaurant that he's been to with her - it will bring back memories.

Maybe I shouldn't have requested the statements. It never occurred to me if I was able to handle what I find out. I need to know what happen to our money but I never ask myself if I can handle it. I have always wanted to take dance lesson and he always told me "No" because he doesn't like it and now i find out he's doing it with the OW.

((((VL))))

I know how that hurt, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Do you have to personally review the bank statements, can someone at the lawyers office do that.

If you are trying to protect your love for your WH, dealing with this info is going to make it hard for you not to start hating him a little.

Any word on a MC appt today (which, for the record, I think is a waste of time until the affair is over).

VL,

check out the "just a rant" thread and read the second reply from tst.

You need to get on a firm plan. You can't be in planB if you are going to be meeting WH for therapy. I wish you could put in one more call to the Harleys. Didn't they tell you NOT to go to planB but gave you some more steps to do first?

Jean asked me to take a look at your thread.

Can you give me a quick overview/timeline of your situation?

When did the A start? Who is OW?

When was your Plan A and how did it go?

When did you start Plan B and have you stayed completely dark?

Why are you considering coming out of Plan B if your husband is still in an active affair?


And I agree with Jean, MC is a complete waste of time, energy, and money if he has not ended his affair. BTW, you NEVER give your WH an upper hand in anything, especially in counseling.

(((HUGS))))

This:


...was exactly the breaking point for me. Wstbx did all of this with his OW as well - behind my back on my money!!! And to make it worse, he had me convinced that *I* was the one responsible for our financial woes due to my expensive hobby (which turned out to be a fraction of what he was spending on OW).

Sweetie, I actually have more money now that he's gone, even though all the bills are exactly the same or more. Actually, electricity went down by half since I'm not paying to power up that giant TV of his anymore.

Really, it's time to take stock of the pros and cons here and make a decision.

"TST" - or Jean

Time line of the A started Sept. 07 - She's single - own a house - have cancer supposedly from what he said.

PlanA from June thru about mid -Aug. Some good days and some bad days.

Spoke to Steve around Beg. of Aug - suggested to have my WH to call and speak to Steve but my WH was in a fog and refused to even hear my suggestion. A Week later called Steve back and told me to go to PlanB for about 2 weeks - then I filed to protect our finances.

He said the A has ended on Labor's day weekend. Stayed dark for about 1 week after that then he got served and he text me a whole bunch - apologized - said he will do anything to put back this M. I had to speak to him on visitation with our daughters since I don't have any intermediary person to help me.

My lawyer has seen all the bank statements. Even if I don't want to see them - he still have to let me know so that I know what action to take. What in the world does she need $6k in the month of April and another $6k in the month of May - then he wrote her another check for $2,500 in month of August?

Does anyone have any ideas why a person need so much money and even he's in a fog with the OW - no one is that stupid is it?

Also does anyone have any experience with credit report. Why would you go and order a credit report for yourself? Are you trying to hide something to see whether something will turn up on a credit report? What does not appear on there? Banking account?????

VL, who knows what they use the money for. I actually wasn't hunting for my Wstbx's expenses. I fell onto them when I started looking up old bank statements to figure out what all the bills were going to cost me (he handled all the bills). At the time, I was under the impression that we were financially strapped, mostly due to my horse, and I was panicking that I would not be able to support myself on my salary alone. He was already half way out the door. I signed up for online banking (something he had never done) and I was able to go back 18 months. I wouldn't have gone more than a couple of months to figure out the bills but the amount of money coming out of the account that I *KNEW* I hadn't taken was staggaring. And when I got to October - the month we got the insurance money from the car DS totalled, there were 3 separate withdrawals - one for $2000, and two for $1000. Wstbx claimed he paid down our line of credit at another bank. So I went to that bank and got the statements for the previous 12 months. Not one single payment was made except for interest!!!! After that, Wstbx said he forgot what he spent it on. This was on top of an exhorberant amount of spending on eating out at lunch (they work together), plus an enormous amount of smaller cash withdrawals - totalling to about twice as much as my horse board costs. I don't know where it went and I likely never will.

Regarding the credit report, I don't think it's a big deal to get one done on yourself. A friend of mine has been trying for ages to clean his up to no avail. Finally he had one run on himself and he found an old outstanding phone bill from a company he hadn't dealt with in years. Now he can sort that out and get on with life. The credit report could be important because if he's spending beyond his (your) means, you could get dragged through the mud as well. I doubt you will be able to discover much in terms of the A. However, you can probably get old statements from your credit cards. It's easy to do yourself online.

Well the problem is this account is under his name. He opened it when he moved out in Jan 07. I snoop and went thru this wallet one day when he was visiting our daughters and saw a copy of the deposit.

I had asked him numerous time where did the money come from - what happened to his IRA? His Stocks? How come the paycheck is much lesser than what it used to be? He made up some lame excuses.

When I filed the "D" papers - my lawyer found out that he gave me full POA access (power of attorney) because we sold our other home and he couldn't at the title company to sign off the papers so he let me do it.

My lawyer suggested that I take that POA down to his bank and tell the manager that I have full rights to access his account and that how I was able to see all the statements. He was spending left and right like water flowing freely on the river.

He moved his IRA and his stocks to somewhere else that I don't know about. But strange was that he had a paypal account - the same amount of $$$ went out and the same went in $$$$. So he's playing with our $$$$.

I wondered if he opened a joint account with the OW - but why write her such a big amount of check? WHy not just deposit cash and wouldn't be able to trace it? He's been very sloppy - He didn't know that ever since in Jan - I kept a copy of everything - all of our financial documents, etc...

In my opinion I think he ordered his credit report for something - he never done that before. Don't tell me he was trying to see if something will show up - or so blinded by the OW that he took out a loan for her? I don't know.

My lawyer will questioned him no doubt - most likely supoena the OW because that is over $14,500. That's future investment for our family. He agreed to come clean about our finances with the lawyer when he agreed to work things out. I told my lawyer not to let him know all the evidences that we have. I want to see if he's truly sincere about everything.

VL,

Did you write a plan B letter giving him a list of requirements that would show him a way back home if the A ended? If so, what did you have in your list?


VL, I also wrote an apology letter and said the same thing as above to my wife. (IMO, It is a good sign) Then my wife gave me her own list of things I needed to do to EARN the right back into her life. This list set the bar so high that she would have no doubt I was serious if I agreed to do everything that was on it.
I did agree!
Are you interested in settling or setting a higher standard with boundaries? You only get one shot at setting the standard.

Tst, I did write the PBL and sent one to the OW. It didn't go into details as far as list of requirements - I've posted the PBL on my thread here for advices. Everyone suggested to keep it short so I did. It merely said - in order for our M to reconcile then he would have to end his relationship with OW.

He respected my decision and begged me to put this family back together. It's not that simple. I have worked so hard to put this family back - I've worked really hard to save my M. It takes two to tango and I don't know if he realized it.

He has an apartment right now - he moved out of the OW's house already. But I don't know if he's still in contact with her. I can't follow him all the time - plus he didn't even give me the address or anything - said he was but he never did.

We are seeing the MC tomorrow and I'm going to take Jean's advice and not say anything but to just sit and listen to him. I want to know how sincere he is if he truly wants to come back to this M.

I hope that with a third unbiased party will help see it in a different light. I think all this time - it's all about him - whatever I said - I don't think he can put himself in my position.

I want to see what the MC will tell him - how it is possible to fix our M when he does not want to come back home yet? I want to know what he will give up for me. Yes I understand about setting grounds, setting boundaries, setting respect for each other, and at the end of the day - it's a give and take between us two. I hope at some point he knows this time - it will be a one shot thing.

The problem is I wished we can move to another state and start over. It's hard - here because given what I have already know about the wine and dine fine restaurants, the dance lesson, and her house is near his work. It is extremely hard to overlook it. How do we start rebuilding our lives together when all the things I have wanted to do with him - he has done it with OW?

Will he be open to moving to another state? I don't know!

Hi VL,

Yeah, I think that's pretty common. Mine did it too. All of the crap he didn't want to do or didn't feel like doing, he did and/or does with her.

Heck, they even flew to Vegas. We always talked about going there and staying at the Star Trek Hilton and seeing Wayne Newton, etc.

I found out about that at OWH's temp hearing. It didn't and doesn't bother me. It still bothers OWH, though.

I imagine it would be very hard to deal with that in recovery. What you'd have to do is take it head on and go to the same places and replace the memory of "them" with the memory of you and him.

I've had to do that on my own with a lot of places...some I haven't had a chance to conquer yet. It was hard at first but it gets easier. It will for you, too, whether you end up doing it with him or by yourself.

Charlotte

Charlotte, my lawyer asked me what I want to do after showing him 8 months of his bank statements. He wants to supeona the OW for a temp hearing to question her about the $14k that my WH gave her. Aslo ask her when did the relationship end - and make her feel really low for taking our $$$ - our future for our daughters - our livelihood.

I want my M back and I'm afraid it's going to backfire - he will get angry again and give me the guilt of involving the OW. But at the same time - I think I am entitle to know because I can't believe a word he tells me right now.

And at the same time - am I prepared to hear what she will say - it will be excruciating painful. Can I handle it?

Yes. This is an EXCELLENT idea. Please allow him to do this!



You DO have a right to know. Why should he be angry? If he is serious about doing ANYTHING to recover your relationship then this should NOT be a problem for him.

YES!! You can handle it! You are STRONG!! You stood up for your family when your husband failed to protect it. You are a WARRIOR WOMAN!!

Getting all that ugly into the light of day is just more exposure and will help your relationship. Plus, maybe it will make the OW think twice about doing it to anyone else.

Charlotte

Well we had our very first MC session today. I can't compare my MC to anyone else since this is our first time but I really like her - she put her foot down and told like it is.

My WH opened up first - told her how our marriage fell apart before the A even started - then he went into his A but left lots of details out.

Then it was my turn to tell my side of the story. Expressed my feelings - my pain - the emotional roller coaster that I have been through trying to save our M and our relationship.

Then the MC really laid the grounds on him. Someone had to wake him up and make him look at the pie as a whole instead of just him. He can be a cake eater - have his cake and eat it too. She told him that he needs to earn his trust back - he can not lie to me anymore because you have done it so many times to your wife. She is in alot of pain.

It was very hard. I was very emotional - try to hold my tears as I tried to speak.

But it was weird - when he came into the office - he got angry because I didn't pick up the phone - I told I didn't even see a miss call - it didn't come up on my phone and he said "whatever yeah it didn't come up again." So I let it go - after the session ended - we left and walked to our cars and it just felt weird. I said politely "bye" and usually he would kiss me on the lip but just a peck on the cheek and walked away.

You did well, I hope he continues to come...undoubtedly it was hard for him to sit through and listen to...it's very difficult to look your wrongs square in the eye and take it like a man and essentially that's what the MC is doing is showing him what needs to change. Ultimately it will be up to him to decide if he wants to or not...and up to you to decide what your boundaries are, but you WILL be okay no matter what he decides, and that's what you have to keep reminding yourself. This is extremely difficult for you to go through and you kept your emotions in check and you should be proud of yourself for that. It's okay to go home and cry now and get it all out, and then try to take a bit of time and do something just for you, a pedicure, a bubblebath, a walk, something! Keep up the good work1

Has he ended the affair yet?

VL,

Your H sounds like me when I came home the first time. I was NOT sincere. I still had an attitude of entitlement and lacked the remorse needed to actually recover.

I have a bad feeling, from what you are saying, that he is manipulating you and has no interest in coming home and doing "whatever it takes" to recover this M.
I believe he is still in contact and I believe he is going to let you pull him along for now so he can tell you "he tried" and then say "it's just not going to work".

Listen, your PlanB, again from what you described, has been weak at best. And, you are still afraid to act even though you have nothing else to loose.
IMO, you are setting yourself up for a nightmare recovery that will not stick.
Your H has already left the marital home and the marriage. You have discovered that you WILL survive this.
You have nothing to loose by setting the standard for his re-entry back into your life "HIGH".
He is the one who has discovered that he is going to loose everything and yet you are giving him an upper hand.

Please put a list of requirements together, and make him agree to every one of them before you take even one more step forward toward recovery.

This is the list my wife required of me before she would agree to recovery the second time around. I am posting it as an example for you.



IMO, Anything less would be a mistake on your part.

This is the exact thought I had, tst.

I felt my own WH-Gray was trying to do the same with agreeing to MC-I just knew it wasn't going to do a bit of good with 3 in the marriage but I felt that he wanted to do it just to make himself feel better and so he wouldn't have to feel guilty if I ended up in a mental ward. Plus, he wanted to use his personal physician as the counselor. Yeah, right!

That was before I found MB, or MB found me.

I got that vibe, VL, after I read your post. I was going to ask you if it felt like he really wanted to try and make it work or if he was trying to do what tst mentioned.

Charlotte

I am very scared - and I have thought the same thing with "tst" - that he may still be in contact with the OW.

The MC asked him when he ended and replied he ended on Labor's day weekend. It was the same weekend he moved out and got an apartment.

He admitted to her that before he didn't want to see a MC or even thought of seeking professional help before.

Charlotte - when he talked about his relationship with the OW - he said very few things about the relationship - did not express much details - except one thing he mentioned - "I never see myself pursuing a relationship with her - it was convenient. She knows I'm married and have children and it didn't bother her". "THe relationship was off and on and tried to break it up three times before." Right there the MC laid it on him - very direct attitude from her.

I couldn't get a vibe from my WH. He was very quiet the rest of the time with his head bow down. He never once looked up at me or the MC when it was my turn to talk when I really went into details of the A. The lies he has given me. THe emotional pain and the sanity I tried to hold up.

I don't know maybe because he felt really bad and guilty for what he had done to me. OUr next MC is next Tuesday - my family told me give at least 3-4 sessions and see where it goes and if he's not going to agree with the list of requirements then it's HASTA LA VISTA BABY!!!! Bring it on - I'm taking the OW to court.