It was her G ma's bedroom set. Tremendous sentimental value for WW. G ma's kid's conceived their. WW's kids conceived there.

But WW stained that furniture. It can never be unstained.

She can live with this stain, ignore it. You can not. I could not. Many other BS here could not.

Let her be sad for it's loss. Admit to her, her loss. Admit to her your happy it's gone. Move on.

Road,

I will acknowledge that it is a loss for her. I can see that. I'm just worried that I am hearing "When you get over this" from her already.

She doesn't understand that the bed is a trigger to an image in your head. She thinks it's just a bed that you've been sleeping in for years. IT didn't do anything wrong. It's an object.

No

She won't get it.

But you can't really expect her to feel something that you are feeling.

In time she might. There's a better chance that she will understand if she reads here and reads of others' pain.

She's not mentally ill just typical. But it would behoove you if you could calmly tell her why it hurts you and why it has to go. Communicate your pain, explain it. No more stuffing it and going silent.

6years,

The WHY is really more for your W than you. She needs to understand what is going on with her, what went on with her, and develop a plan to protect her boundariers (first she needs to define them), her marriage, her children.

If you are expecting a "rational" answer to why? "Because I wanted to" is about as close as it gets. Logic is not a strong suit of those in an affair.

Stand firm on the bed, and make sure you speak with your daughter, now that your son has given her the information. I don't know what your W's plan is but very soon she is going to need to speak to the kids. They aren't dumb, they know there are some real issues, and I would guess the younger ones particularly are worried.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I'll repeat again, get your W to counseling this is rapidly becoming too complicated for her to handle herself.

6YL

"I'm sure you will want it back after you get over this"

This is not the same as a WS saying: When are you going to get over this, or aren't you over this yet, or aren't you over with this by now, or your still on this.

I would not even work a sweat to burn it because you will have clean up the mess after the fire is done. Just put it out for the garbage man to take away with the other trash.

Update,

We found a family/marriage counselor that my wife agrees to see, we are going to take the whole family but W and I will start.

When I got home my oldest daughter wanted to talk to me, she did not confront her mother or anything. So nothing terrible was said yet. She is not as filled with anger as Sam. She spoke with me and said that the kids did not want me to do this for them. They has a kid meeting and decided that they would be ok if W left and I raised them and that they didn't want to see me hurt anymore. It was very touching but kids do need a mother if they can have one. So I told them something I heard on Dr Laura. Basically that they need to make the best of what they have. Her way of saying it was don't throw away your ice cream cone because its not a hot fudge sundae. I also said I am the Dad and I'm going to do lots of hard things for them and that is my job. Kids went out for late Pizza so I could get rid of the bed, it is gone, W couldn't help me do it.

After bed was gone I went to sleep downstairs because we still have the same mattress until Monday. W asked why so I did explain that it reminds me of her with OM and reminds me of how she didn't care about kids. After I was down there about an hour she came down, upset and said that she will understand if I tell her to go away but that she could use a hug. So I told her to come in the bed and she slept snuggled up to me. She wanted to try to explain why she was careless about the kids but I told her I needed a break from this for today. She seemed relieved. Hopefully the counselor will take us on Monday.

6:

I don't why, but for some reason, your thread makes me WANT to post.

Because I believe that this is salvageable.
Because I believe that you are a good man.
Because I believe that you finally realizing after ten years that there MIGHT be a way out of this mess, now that you have asked for help.

My first point? The bed. Your WW is showing you tremendous disrespect by asking you to carry it downstairs. She doesn't realize how disrespectful it is. Why is is disrespectful? It's like making you clean up the mess after she stabbed you. Then stating: "Well, you will get over it, and cleaning it up is good for you." There are other options:

-You CAN burn it when you get home.
-You CAN go to the Mattress store and get a whole NEW set along with sheets, blankets and pillows. Thereby, saving her G-Ma's bedframe.
-You CAN make sure that SHE carries it out to the curb for pickup.
-You CAN make sure that Goodwill or the Salvation Army picks it up to sell it for charitable purposes.
-You CAN tell her that you will "never get over it" but you can get to forgiveness.

My second point: She has had TEN YEARS to process the info that she KNOWS about her A. You have had information about the Affair, but NOT KNOWLEDGE. You are GETTING that knowledge. You still need to process that knowledge. And that may require you to make some choices to step away from her a little bit. But you made a choice ten years ago to STAY. That was a CHOICE. And its still true today.

And one example from our recovery. OW AND I used my van for many "outings". My BW has the knowledge of these, and was pushing for the sale of the Van because OW was in the seat. Then, after the anger subsided, she had another thought. "Why should YOU (meaning LG) get a NEW car out of an Affair?" So she decided that having the VAN detailed and cleaned to remove the "stench" of the OW was what she needed. I had it done. THe point is, your initial solution may NOT be the actual solution.
I would have sold the van, no question. I would have dealt with it, to ease her pain. But she KNEW what she needed, and that was done.


LG

6,

She will come to understand why you need to get rid of the bed. She will come to realize that it was part of the consequences for the horrible thing she did to you and her children. In my case, I sold the rental house I caught them in and the SUV that they used for their little trysts. I even burned the clothes she was wearing the day I caught them. In the end it’s only stuff and it can be replaced with stuff that doesn’t trigger the bad thoughts.

Also, keep asking questions until you have enough info to be able to move forward. Only you know how much you need to know. Something that worked for us was setting aside 1 night each week to discuss our marriage and for me to ask questions. We tried to make the rest of the week as normal as possible. That gave me an opportunity to get all of the info I needed to move forward but it also allowed me to not have to deal with it every day. It also allowed her to not feel like she was being continually punished. Also, please keep pushing hard for her to get into some individual counseling. Until she deals with the issues that led her to violate her boundaries and have an affair, she will always be at risk of having another one. I can tell you that my wife has learned so much about herself and what allowed her to violate her personal, moral, and marital boundaries. It took several months, but I think she truly came to understand why she cheated and through that she has been able to help me understand the why. Sure, there were some ENs that I failed to meet, but she learned that there were some things in her life that made her susceptible and it allowed her to develop some EPs to make sure she never crosses that line again. I found that her individual counseling was more valuable than our marriage counseling.

Finally, the time is quickly approaching where the 2 of you are going to have to sit down and face the kids. My kids are roughly the same age as yours and I was amazed at how much they already knew and were just keeping to themselves. Mine had the old kid's meeting and told me the same thing that yours told you. The past 10 years have been as hard on them as it has been on you. Not only have they been living with the anger associated with what their mother had done, but they were also living with the fear and uncertainty of not knowing when their whole world may fall apart if their parents split up and worrying about you. You definitely want to get all of your kids into some individual counseling. All of mine have thanked me for pushing them into the counseling even though they were hesitant initially. They may not all be angry, but they have all been scarred by your wife's affair and emotional abandonment.

You are doing great even thoug it doesn't feel like it right now.

6YL

Great response to kids.

"I tell her to go away but that she could use a hug. So I told her to come in the bed and she slept snuggled up to me. She wanted to try to explain why she was careless about the kids but I told her I needed a break from this for today. She seemed relieved."

Great response to the WW. You are wise to realize that you and her need breaks from affair talks.

WW seems from what you have writen to be willing to do the work to recover. It seems that you are willing to do your part to recover. This is a good start for your family.

Be ware! Not all MC's are good. If you do not think this will be a good MC then time to find one that will be good. Nothing to be gained by continuing with a bad MC.

6YL,

Yea that really s**ks, my wife has memories of seeing her dad with another woman sitting in his lap at the age of 5. He then ran after her to promise he would build a fish pond in the front yard, which was another lie/bribe. She still resents him for that many years later.

I still have memories of my biological Mother and Father together, anyone who presumes the children are too young to know has never experienced an affair from a childs perspective.

God Bless
NJ

6years,


You have some very very good kids. Your W has some serious changes to make to bring this all back together. It starts with honesty, it proceeds to counseling, and then a plan to be the W and mother that your family needs.

Although she reads here, does she really appreciate how the kids feel and what they have seen and picked up???

Hang in there, you are doing a good job.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thanks. The kids are the bright spot in all of this for me. They are turning out to be good people. I'm proud of how they are turning out. W agreed to counseling, He might take the two of us on Sunday afternoon, he's going to call me back later today.

6years,

Excellent on the counseling. He will need all of his skills to unravel all of this and address the issues. Don't expect miracles. My guess is that this will take awhile.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

We are in Sunday afternoon but he gave each of a short call , w first, and a homework assignment.

He asked me three things to work on, both thinking strictly about before the A and a couple of months before that even.

1) Did I think W had high or low self esteem? My answer is low, compared to mine. I was (unfortunately not true now) the only man she had ever had sex with. Plus we got pregnant before getting married.

2) Do I think I have a high or low need for leisure compared to W? I think I have a low need compared to everyone, not just W. But also much lower than hers.

3) Do I have a high or low work capacity compared to W? I thought this was the same as 2 but he said it is different. I have a high work capacity compared to W.

In spending time to answer these questions I am reflecting on my role in the M prior to A. I think that I had started to pick up all of the home tasks a long time before the A started. If laundry was sitting around I just did it, if there was no dinner I made dinner, etc You get the picture. I never complained about it and I was raised in a house where if you saw a chore you did it. I can see how this may have made W feel bad about herself, but it is the kind of thing you can't really complain about. Until now I always remembered this as W had A and I had to pickup all the work. But I really think it was I picked up all the work and then W had A.

What do you guys think? Is this the "weird" problem you have been trying to put your finger on?

Yes! Wow, you've made some good progress!

Let me explain. How do you feel about your job? Your ability to provide home, food, stability, safety, etc.? It's very much a part of who you are, right?

Think back to the movie Kramer vs. Kramer. I'm sure you're old enough to remember when it came out. What was the big thing about that movie? It wasn't that she left him. It was that she was a married woman with a child who left him. It was such a shocking concept back then because, just as a man's identity is so closely tied to his work, a woman's identity is closely tied to her ability to provide on the domestic side. Even if a woman's working a full time job, she is subconsciously still expected to be the backbone of the household.

Stupid, perhaps, but it's human nature.

What happened, I think, is that you put you - stable, hardworking, dependable - together with her - somewhat selfish, flighty, not terribly concerned with duty - and with your FOO issues, you devolved into a dysfunctional situation.

The more you took up, the more she gave up. Eventually, she was being treated like - and acting like - a wayward, spoiled child. You and I both know how detrimental it is to raise a child with no expectations, no duties, no responsibilities. They become miserable, spoiled adults who are never happy, but don't understand why.

Certainly am not blaming you for the A. Just hoping to point out that, were you to return to your previous relationship, as it was then, what would happen? Very likely, she'd continue to be flighty, irresponsible, and miserable.

THAT is the benefit of understanding your role in the pre-A relationship. To learn from mistakes and create a better environment.

I think you're well on your way to achieving that. And be prepared for her to change, once you set good boundaries for each of you to have responsibilities and expectations. Expect her to blossom into the wife you should have had, because she's no longer being treated like a child. She'll regain that self-esteem, she'll learn the pleasure of hard work and success, and she'll increase her work capacity so that she feels equal to you in contributions. Win/win. Good work!

Thanks CatPerson,

W also read my post, she agrees that I was already do most of the chores. She says she has always had very few responsibilities in our M. She tried to say I caused her to have an A but I was having none of that. I did not call names but I did tell her that she said it made her feel bad when I took all the responsibility, now she wants me to take the blame for her A. She saw that but is genuinely afraid that she is going to be required to do alot more. The counselor told her something about the need to do things to get better self esteem. Of Course she did not take notes during their conversation.

What is FOO?

Also emotionally I'm still struggling, I hope these meds kick in soon. Doing the homework also helped me feel a little better. I still just don't see how I can stay after all that has happened but as you guys keep telling me time will tell.

FOO = Family Of Origin, meaning, the family you grew up in, usually parents and sibs.

You're doing great. Good for not letting her blame you for the A. You recognize that you contributed to the environment and the poor health of the M, and that is what you are trying to work on for your part. But the decision to have the A was hers and hers alone; a choice.

Hang in there. Yes, time will tell. Just hang in there.

Yes, you doing too much for her is not good for her. For her self-esteem she needs to do things herself.

Thanks for the explanation Jayne. I'm hoping the counselor helps because we will have to deal with the kids next.

Think about the kids who get in trouble, and they send them to boot camp. In boot camp, they are responsible for their success or failure. They have to work their butts off, probably for the first time in their lives. And it works! It gives them a sense of purpose, self-esteem, a feeling of success, pride, determination, and the knowledge that they can conquer anything. That's what your wife needs. Not boot camp, lol, but the great feeling from working for what you need.

First counseling session went ok. We only talked about our relationship/M before the A for this session. W had her own session after the joint session. The big thing we explored was that I tend to pickup everything and that makes her feel incompetent. I also give her the impression that I think she is incompetent. I never say it but she says I think it, and I do think it alot. It is difficult because in many ways she seems incompetent to me. I'm going to talk to him about how I can approach that.

We talked alot about the birth of Sam because W sees it as a big change in our relationship. She was terrified about the baby being so young and still at home with her parents. I don't remember this but I we had some conversation where I told her that I would take care of everything and she could count on me. She said it made her feel safe but took away some of her self esteem that this young college guy had it all under control and she was hysterical. Of course I was afraid but didn't show it.

Anyway she says I just instantly became a man and father the day Sam was born and she stayed a teenage girl and I let her stay one. Even now she says she is afraid about how to be a parent. I'm going to talk about this as well. I am proud that I am a good father and I promised myself I would be the day I first held Sam. I don;t want to hide that.

Other little things he said. She is to eat dinner with the rest of us, every night. Somehow she always skips this. And no more girls nights or weekends away, she is not sure she is willing to give this up. I'm thinking it will be a condition of staying with me.

I'm a little burnt and the tequila is calling. I'll check back later.