Today went ok. I checked her cell and she had phoned the woman who looks after her 'secret' cell. She was on the phone for over 10 mins (so it said in the call list) I thought I would get the conversation as it was when she would be in the car, where I had one of my DVR friends.

Just had a quick scan and just as she was about to make call, she gets out of car to go shopping. She knows that I have DVRed in the past in the car, so now goes 'dark' when she is in it. Could've been just a general catch up call, or could've been making arrangements to get to 'secret' cell, I'll never know

Is there another way I can find out stuff?

Also would demanding her to give up school stuff be a DJ or LB? This is where OM works after all, I have to ensure NC at any circumstance.

Gov meeting is on Monday. Surely even if I go with her, if she sees OM doesn't that 'continue' the A and put us back further. I'm so confused...

Spoke to my SIL last night and she says she's fed up with both of us. She wants to bang our heads together and no longer wants to get involved. So now I have no-one I can talk to really about my concerns and worries.

From Turtle's post to you above:


What is your boundary if you can't move? I mean, really? What happens if this continues? There can be NO CONTACT FOR LIFE with the affair partner, otherwise your marriage will never heal completely. Will you just continue to [censored] and moan or will you actually get proactive about this?

Oh and this, " I have to ensure NC at any circumstances."

This should be, "WE have to ensure NC at any circumstances.

Until you get to this point, you're still in for a world of hurt.

So what's it gonna be?

Well I'm nowhere near that point. WW says she has NC but this is bull-poo. She doesn't even think she had an A. It was just a 'dalliance'. Yeah, ok.

She's back to texting late at night while I'm at work, I mean when she's actually in bed. This hasn't happened for a while. When she did it last time around she was swapping sims in her phone. I 'think' she may have got her 'secret' cell back from her friend and is texting OM. That, or texting an intermediary, maybe OM's boss.

If I confront then she will know how I got intel and will go even darker. I know I have to use it at some stage, just not sure when.

You're torturing yourself, brother. It is one thing to do this stuff to discover an A, another to make a best case for divorce, but I'm not sure you are doing either. If you "caught" her with an overt affair dialogue, what would you do? It seems like she wouldn't much care.

I'm in-house separated, and it also stinks, but I have a certain relief and I can see life beyond this lying crazy b@#$h.

Financial devastation is usually/often part and parcel of D, unfortunately. I figure do it now and re-build my life.

It is hard to read whether W is in contact or in OM withdrawal or just garden variety miserable but in reality I shouldn't care, and just move on.

Hi Mike, I just don't know what to think. Managed to have a quick look thru W's handbag (purse) which is where she would hide 'secret' cell if she had it here, and found nothing. Saying that she is going to friend's house on Weds, so who knows?

Weekend has been ok but now later today she has her gov meeting at school. It is for invited guests only, I can either go with her and sit out in the car or try and talk myself into the meeting. Either way she won't be happy, she is expecting to go on her own. Or I could choose just to let her go, but my stomach churns at the thought of that. I was laying in bed this morning thinking of what I might say if I were to go to the P.A. meeting that has been re-scheduled for 10/7. It sounded great in theory but can I pull it off in practice?

I'm not sure if I'm edging towards your sitch or not. We're having work done on the house and it looks great, I keep thinking this might sway her into re-evaluating our M for the better. She has got such alot to lose.

I hope things your end are going as well as can be expected? It's a crap sitch to be in. Take care, Phil

I have no idea what can be "expected" :-) but this is a painful ride.

It sure is better when I have the upperhand and she is grovelling, appropriate to what her actions should result in. That is where we are....had banging sex last night,

It is much harder whn I try to be nice and hopeful and she pulls away and talks divorce.

Anyway, I'm taking over the house finances and showing other signs that I'm moving on, so she is on tinderhooks.

So we had the governor's meeting last night...

W came home from work at about 6.45pm, meeting was at 7.00pm, so I didn't have much time to act. I took her to one side ansd said "Listen, I'm not happy at all about this, you're putting your enjoyment above the pain and anguish that this causes me". She said she didn't, to which I replied "Well, you're going to this meeting aren't you?" She couldn't answer that could she?

I said that she had 2 options. 1 she doesn't go at all, to which she said "But I've been invited, I have to go" I said "No, you don't HAVE to go. You can say no." But she wasn't listening to any of that. Then option 2 was that I take her, stay there and bring her home. I said she would have to ring me and tell me which room the meeting was, as soon as she knew. She agreed to this, so off we went. The mood in the car was very tense and she said that she was 'over him'. I parked right outside the school doors so that I could see into the reception area. She went through and called about a minute later saying the meeting was out the back in one of the cabins. So I sat and waited... and waited...and then I came home for a while to be with my D's. They thought it was strange, and I think older one knew why I was going but nothing was said. W would not have known I'd gone, unless OM told her (as he is in charge of CCTV). I only left for about 45 mins and went back. I parked so that when she came from meeting she would see me immediately. Meeting lasted 2 1/2 hours!

I brought her home and went to work, she said that she really enjoyed the meeting etc. I went to work via the school and OM was locking up, so I know he was there (and I'm pretty sure he saw me). I don't think she saw him in that time, but who knows. As far as she was concerned I was sitting outside. She has shown no signs of withdrawal i.e. being mopey, sad etc.?

Today has been ok so far, she has just gone to work. We have not talked about last night, but there does seem to be a slight 'atmosphere'.

What do the vets (and others) think my next move should be?

Hi Phil,

I think that "extraordinary measures" (i.e.: monitoring) only are productive when there is an agreement to work on the marriage between the parties. In this case it just pushes her away.

What you did was for you, not for the marriage.

Now, :-) let me teel you about my own day yesterday. I flipped out when W was at work, just two months cumulative. I got a ride down to her work, swuped her car, packed all her clothes and stuff, and dropped it in the OMs driveway. Then I called the OM and left a message saying she was all his, and needed a ride from work, and texted W and said here is where your stuff is.

So, beyond dumb on my part, but W crawled back last nite, says she finally doesn't feel "trapped" in the marriage, understands I'll divorce her happily, wants to work on the marriage now, whole new revelation to her.....

So, I certainly don't recommend what I did, (at least it wasn't illegal or violent), but it changed the dynamic which was clearly divorce track.

Do you mean when I went to the school and sat outside?

Talking of the school, when we got home from shopping there was an answerphone message from one of the teachers. It was about a Yr 7 disco which the P.A. is arranging. She couldn't wait to get on the phone to see what it was all about, and this immediately got my back up. It's either gonna be give up the school stuff or give up on her marriage.

What made you flip yesterday? Was there a trigger? I'll try not to do the same but sometimes it really gets to me...

I don't consider myself a vet, but I'll happily place myself in the 'others' category

Whether or not your W is seeing OM (and she probably is), she is clearly not committed to making the marriage the best it can be. She's not interested in your emotional security, she's big into selfish independent behavior.

She has no reason to change.

You can continue living like this forever, or until she leaves you. Or you can take action.

You say she will not move out. If I were in your shoes, I would:
1. Ensure I'd done a fabulous Plan A
2. Give her three options:
- NC letter, quit the P.A., and actively work on attaining a healthy, happy marriage with you
- She moves out
- You move to another home with the children and she can move in when she's willing to take the first option

If she doesn't take the first option it's instant Plan B time.

Hey TH, I'll take on board all comments and ideas. Whether I act on them is another matter! I'm a good listener

I am trying to do the best I can on a Plan A (or so I think). But obv there hasn't been a mass exposure, so does it still count?

NC letter - Dare I say, this won't happen (You do mean her giving OM a NC letter?) Twice now I've been there when she has said to him that 'the game is up' and 'it's all over'. This has been on the phone with me sat next to her. They both agree that yeah, no more texting/meeting/whatever and 2 days later they're back at it again.

I feel such a fool for being suckered in time and time again only to have my b@lls stamped on (metaphorically!)

I think she must give up ALL contact with school. That means no more dropping kids off and certainly no P.A. If not then it's eitrher 2a or 2b. TBH I can't see either happening as much as I'd like it to. She won't leave as in her eyes 'it's all over between her and OM' so why should she? I guess I have the 'secret' cell card to play. As said before, financially I can't move out, especially with Ds.

She won't leave as in her eyes 'it's all over between her and OM' so why should she? I guess I have the 'secret' cell card to play. As said before, financially I can't move out, especially with Ds.

If the A doesn't end, you will be getting a D. It's a matter of when.

You can't force her to do anything, but you can make plans, and you can decide what YOU will do. If you don't change the dynamic, she will continue the A, and it will probably get worse.

You need to have a plan in case she doesn't agree to quit P.A. and have complete NC. If she refuses, you need to run the plan.

Why would she change the way things are now, if she doesn't have to? If there are no consequences?

I think Turtlehead is has given you some good options to consider. You say you can't afford it. Talk to a lawyer and find out what the cost of a D would be. (Initial consultations are sometimes free.) I suspect it will be even more than the cost of just moving out, and it would be forced upon you.

It could be that having you make an appointment with a lawyer, and her knowing about it might be enough.

I could see the following conversation taking place:

Her - "how come you are seeing a lawyer?"
You - "To find out my options in a divorce."
Her - "What? What are you talking about?"
You - "I can't control what you will do, I can only suggest things. However, you can't control what I will do either, and I won't stay in a marriage where you continue close contact with OM. I am seeing the lawyer to find out what my options are, and get a time table for divorcing you."

That might be enough. However, you need to be willing to back up anything you say with action. Having her move out, or you move out and going to plan B would be better than a quick D. How far are you willing to go?

Are you willing to do more than just talk?

Thread jack - Turtle head, you are doing a great job on the forums, I am so glad you are back.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

SS

Yes I know she is cake eating to put it bluntly. She will soon come to realise there will be consequences. I consulted a lawyer back in Feb of this year regarding my options. She intimated that because W was a SAHM for so long that I would be liable to put a roof over their heads, as in W and Ds, 'cause usually children, esp Ds stay with the mother. I would have to pay Child Maintainance as well, which I would do of course. Things may be different if I go for custody though. SS, thank you for replying your post makes alot of sense and I will take it on board.

As for todays update, see below...

Update...

So this morning W went to her friends house, the one with the 'secret' cell, and I went to the gym. I knew she would be home before me so DVRs were in place. She called one of her friends, who is 'in the know'. Relevant conversation went like this...

W: I'm having all my garden done this week, it's a real transformation...(laughs)...no exactly, tell me about it. It's very tempting, but material things, well you know...no...I'D LOVE TO TELL YOU MORE BUT I'M FRIGHTENED TO...(laughs)...no...OH YES!... (and then she does her 'I'm such a bad girl' laugh)

She is frightened to talk 'cause I may be recording her as she knows I've done it in the past. Her friend, I'm guessing, is asking her what's going on and suggesting things, maybe 'Have you seen OM?'. Anyway, they had to cut the conversation short but she rang back 20 mins later and it went like this...

W: He's at the gym...yes (laughs)...Where, as in?...(whispers)HIS HOUSE...oh, AND MORE!('bad girl' laugh)...(inaudible speech)...

Then she changes the subject. So what about his house?? Has she been there? Did she say she's going to her friend's but actually met him? I honestly don't know, but if she has then this could be the last straw. I know I've said it before but this is one boundary that if breached could mean the end.

She knows you are recording....time to use another source. Perhaps a P.I.!!! Look at some time this situation has to be resolved. You obviously need to know the full extent of what has happened and what is currently happening. If this is a game for your wife, then you have no chance. She probably has spoken to a lawyer and knows she is in a good position if you file. She most likely wants to remain roommates while she continues the secret relationship with OM.

I would sit her down and lahy it out there. You know about the phone at the friends house etc etc!!! Ask her whats shes wants...if its the marriage then the school stuff and the friend need to be gone. If she balks then time to divorce. If you are bluffing then don't bother!!!

Hi Phil,

I haven't posted anywhere near as much on these boards and only joined up a couple of weeks back. I've just read through your thread and I can see that you and I are at similar points in the proceedings right now.

I have been working on Plan A for about 9/10 months (although I didn't know it was Plan A it was just how I intuitively did things) but now it seems like we may have to move onto Plan B cos she keeps saying there's NC but the reality is she won't move jobs and the texting and calls continue although a little more secretive.

By mutual agreement, she's moving out next week "to find herself" and in many ways I feel a sense of relief. Sad as it seems this may be my only chance of success at our M and I feel that the same applies for you.

I've done all the snooping around and getting info from all over; even caught them at a hotel together. I'm done with all that crap making me stressed now. Unlike some others here, I dont believe that you need to collect any other evidence. There is no real question that this A has happened or is happening, in fact, even who the OM is or how he behaves is of little relevance now, it's more about obtaining your W's commitment to your relationship and getting her to talk to you honestly.

The main thing is that during every stage you will have done all you can and no-one can ask any more of you. That includes your girls who even if they can't feel good about things right now, they will understand later that Dad did everything right and their Mum didn't.

Your W sounds like an otherwise sensible girl, it's amazing how these situations turn people into irrational fools isn't it?

I wish you all the luck in the world mate, you are clearly a good husband. You and your family don't deserve to go through any of this.

I don't think I'll go the P.I. route, if she is going to her friend's house next week, which is very likely, then I'll follow her myself. She will think I'm at the gym anyway.

Pretty sure she hasn't consulted a lawyer, her aunt has been divorced twice so I think she will be getting the info from her. Funnily, or not, OM has been divorced twice also so he can probably see the other side of it. I hope she doesn't expect spousal maintenance! I'd rather live in the back of my cab! As you can see I'm trying to deal with a lot of resentment over this, I guess everyone goes through it.

The time will come when things come to a head once again. Tomorrow will be one year from D-Day1 and I really didn't think I would still be living my life like this.