Cat, I hear you, I don't think that I would be willing to bring up a conversation like that with my DD12 or DD7 in the years to come, in that area. But I do think that we would touch on those same ideas in other areas. About pretending that something is fun or enjoyable when it's not. About being afraid to ask to try other things so that it would be more enjoyable. I think that this would likely come up in other areas.

My mom didn't discuss any of these SF matters with me, either. But I was such a care-taker by then that no matter what she told me at 18, I don't think I would've had what it takes to rock the boat. I do think maybe her taking different actions would have inspired me. But then, I have had many inspiring role models in my life, and didn't know that I was brave enough to do what they did.

I think that Dance Of Anger book, about everyday people, not larger than life figures, taking the ownership to resolve issues instead of futilely complaining about them and waiting for the other person to decide that it was worth fixing, would have made a bigger impact on me.

Thanks, Jayne, that helps. I am struggling with the guilt over the keylogger, honesty and all. And then figuring out what to do with the information I find out, since I'm not supposed to be knowing it! I'm just going to back off unless I see anything odd.

Ok, thanks. As for talking to her, we really DO have an extremely strong bond. Don't know why. Maybe it's because H is such a jerk most of the time and I spend so much time trying to help her get past it. She's always asking me to stop and do stuff with her, more than I even want, lol. Plus, she's an only child; I think that makes a huge difference. And she doesn't have one truly good best friend.

Anyway, you know what? I think I'm going to give her the Dance of Anger book to read. Never thought about it til you mentioned it, but she is a Giver, and I think this would be an excellent time for her to read it. Thanks for the idea!

As for SF, this will tell you what kind of strong, honest person she is, and our relationship. Her bf's 18th birthday is in 2 weeks. She's making him this awesome book with stuff he likes. But she's been telling him no SF until she graduates, right? So she said she's been teasing him about counting down the days, all in jest. She told me she's thinking of buying him a calendar, too, and Xing out the days since they got together, so he can keep Xing out days til they graduate and might get somewhere - assuming they're still dating then; give him something to keep occupied with. *crickets chirping*

It's a joke, guys! But that's the way she is. I'd much rather see that, than someone who is afraid to approach the subject. I think she's going to have a healthy outlook on SF, and that pleases me, given my own background.

What I mean by enmeshment is when we tell ourselves and our partners that we feel the same way that our partner feels. Like when your DD said that it was enjoyable for her.

Differentiation is when we acknowledge and share that we feel differntly than our partner feels. This gives us the information that we need to negotiate for what we want instead of what we don't want.

IC today really sucked. I went with D18, and we talked about her relationship with H. Every subject we hit upon, it turned out that it was MY responsibility to fix. ugh

I completely agree, I just don't want to do it. We determined that I had just been desensitized to how...off my H is.

He can be very childish, which humiliates D18 if it's done in public. Like there are a lot of blacks where we live, at the mall we go to, and the current trend in their clothing is to wear jeans 10 sizes too large, so that they have to walk with their knees apart and holding on to the band to keep the pants from falling off. Anyway, if we're in the mall, H will see some guys like that and start mimicking them, often loudly or closely enough that they would see him.

So it's my job to tell him that it's unacceptable to act like this when D18 is with us because it humiliates her; my job to protect her. I've seen it for 30 years, and I just tune it out, but it gravely hurts D18.

He makes inappropriate comments of a sexual nature around D18 AND around her friends, most of whom don't like coming to our house because of it. It's my job to point out to him that this is highly inappropriate around girls, even akin to sexual harrassment or abuse. I've seen him do this for 30 years, so I've lost perspective on it being wrong; it's just what he does. (I think now that this must be why I crave a 'normal' man so much, without knowing why.) In this case, it's my duty to point out to him how inappropriate his acts are. And it's D18's duty to point out to him that her friends think he's a pervert. (nicely, of course)

He pats D18 on the rear end as an affectionate gesture, but it makes her uncomfortable. It's my job to point out that he's being inappropriate, is harassment, especially since she's told him many times it bother her; it's her job to tell him "Dad, I'm not a little girl any more, I'm an 18 year old young woman; please don't do that."

He loves to shop at Victoria's Secret, but I don't let him buy me anything because I'm self-conscious about my weight. So he takes her shopping. She told IC today that it makes her uncomfortable for him to shop for her underclothes. I've been around him so long that I don't even think about it. So it's my job to tell him it's inappropriate.

He likes to blow up at anyone he thinks is treating him badly. So it's my job to tell him it's inappropriate and that the next time he does it, we are going to leave. THAT will be fun.

So basically, I'm living with a nutjob and I was so weak when I was younger that I never stood up against any of this (but I remember being uncomfortable, too) and it has become ingrained in him. So now it's time for me to start protecting my daughter and be a grown up.

This sucks.

Wow, cat, that's a hard day. My mom failed to protect me in similar ways, too. It created an environment where I was afraid to tell her about the sexual abuse. Because it felt very obvious to me that he was making the rules and she was following. That she would not stick up for me even with obvious stuff going on in front of her. He would tell her to buy me prettier panties, not the cotton ones. I was still a girl, and I liked the cotton ones. I told her that, and she told me, no, he said that I was too old for that. Who was he to say that I needed to wear silky ones? I had a lot of anger with her about that.

The innuendo remarks, my mom never heard. It hurt so bad though, cat, to hear this stuff. Just loud and clear, you're worth this disrespect. You don't even own your own body. I was afraid to bring friends over, too, but I did, and then felt shamed that I exposed them to that, too.

Have you apologized to your daughter about how you didn't defend her against this sexualized environment? These ways you described aound like a good way to make amends in the present.

CAt, the pat the butt thing, I think that's a boundary issue. She's already shared her O&H, how it makes her feel. Like her body is there for whatever someone wants to do with it. Even after she says no, again and again. What about a stronger protection for your DD? Like exposure if he doesn't stop for good?

D18 and I have talked about all this dozens of times. I think it's the only reason she's so sane. It may be close to parentifying her, but I think (hope) it's helped her see things in a healthier way. She knows it's not about her, any of it, she knows how off he is. So we're going to help each other on this til I get the strength to do it all. I am amazed, though, how much I've changed in the last year. It's like I finally grew up. Meds probably helped too, lol. But I feel much stronger.

Oh, we also talked about H not letting D18 ride in her boyfriend's car, how he thinks something bad is going to happen (he says he just has a 'feeling'), and about how he hates that the boyfriend wears those nylon basketball shorts - like 90% of all the other kids out there; in H's mind, they are 'whip it out' shorts and he plans to rape our daughter. Talking about it all out loud with IC really pointed out how badly H has vilified the boyfriend, unfairly.

So. We determined that I would start with removing the ban on riding in boyfriend's car now, while H is in China. A risky move, possibly LBing and definitely not POJA, but this ban of his is completely irrational, so I'm not dealing with a regular situation. But this way, I can explain to him in texts why I am doing it, he can have 10 days to digest it before he gets home, and by the time he gets home, there will have been 10 days of her riding safely in his car to prove that it is doable.

Wish me luck.

Lots more got discussed, but thats the gist of it. At least I have a plan for slowly removing ourselves from this noxious environment.

After I dropped H off at the airport yesterday, he texted me and thanked me for all the work I've been doing for him. Wow. And then he called later and thanked me again. Then he said, 'Please be careful what you write in emails to my work email. They (they again) read all that stuff.'

So my responding to his DJ of me the other day and possibly making him look not so perfect in 'their' eyes really got to him.

Wow cat... I don't know whether to be happy for you for the positive changes, or to cringe from the stuff you described. I'll go with happy about the present stuff; that other stuff is in the past.

But I do want to encourage you to be vigilant and call your H on these things. What you describe would really really bother me. It's definitely sexual harrassment if not SA. I feel angry reading about the Victoria's Secret stuff and about ears' dad too. IMHO that is highly inappropriate behavior for a father toward a daughter.

Your H seems to be making huge efforts so I won't dwell on that. What your IC is suggesting, for you to call him on such things, is he on board with that? Will he be able to hear what you say when he's in one of his rants (over boys at the mall, the BF, etc)? I thought you'd tried doing such things before and he couldn't/wouldn't hear. I'm remembering an incident at a (video?) store when you threatened to wait in the car or did wait in the car or something when he started making racist comments.

BTW when I went back to remind myself of the email you sent him at work (which I love BTW!) I saw a post I'd missed, about him looking over your shoulder while you were typing. I'm glad you were typing about my finger! I haven't had time to follow up on my thread, but thanks for the advice. I made the appointment (no walk-ins for 40 miles around) but ended up canceling it the next morning cus I was fairly certain I'd gotten everything out. It's almost healed over now, just a little sore and doesn't feel like anything's in there. I gotta get one of those magnifying lens thingies, it made it so easy to see the tiniest thing.

ETA: I'm really glad you are gonna step in and lift the ban on DD in BF's car. Also, I'm glad H is thanking you for the stuff you do for him.

Thanks Jayne. I was really embarrassed in IC, when I realized that all this stuff isn't normal, and that I'd let it get so bad. I honestly didn't see it. I think subconsciously I knew other families weren't like that, but I've never really seen a normal family in action. I know I'd see a regular guy with his family in a store or on the street, and I'd think why can't I have a husband like that, but I never really stopped to analyze why.

It's all so clear now. But I was so ashamed yesterday.

I'm going to have to do what I tell everyone else to do. Set a boundary and enforce it, no matter the backlash. I have seen, though, that when I act with strength, my H really does crumble. He's so scared I'm going to leave him, I think. Always has been.

We'll see. Glad your finger's better.

Cat, it hit me, what a blessing that your daughter feels safe to share these concerns with you. That she has the confidence in you to defend her, now that she's shared this with you. And look at you, looking at hard truths instead of minimizing and justifying.

I wanted to ask you, cat, have you talked with the counselor how to mesh this O&H with the idea of presenting a united front? You and your H are not united in thinking that your DD18 should have no say where it comes to who touches her body and where.

Hmmm. Not really. She refers to The Dance of Anger a lot. I need to go back and reread that.

I was thinking a while ago about how I'm going to present the car rule to him, via texting or email. I think he gets email cheaper over in China. How does this sound?

H,
I've been thinking a lot about D18 and C, and their relationship. And our relationship with them. Here's what I've concluded; let me know how you feel about this.

While I completely empathize with your gut feeling about C and his car, and it's scary to me, too, to let her out of our sight, I also realize that we need to readdress her riding in his car for a few reasons.

First, she's 18. She could leave any time she wants, and go live with someone else. She doesn't want to, but we are driving her away with our over-protectiveness. People who are seniors in high school, especially those who are 18, are usually by this time riding everywhere with everyone, going to malls (any malls, not just their local one) and theaters and the beach, even trips. The more we try to control this aspect, the stranger she seems to her friends and the less they hang out with her or invite her to do anything. She already has a reputation for having overbearing parents. I don't want to be responsible for that any more.

Also, she's been in the car with C before, before you banned her from it, and she says that he is completely respectful and a good driver, no difference with which car he is driving. She says he has never driven over the speed limit, never run a stop sign or stop light, won't even use his phone when he's driving. He's been driving for 2 years now, has never had a speeding ticket, never had a wreck. And the few times he's been to a party where drinking is involved (the only time he has ever had a drink), he spends the night if he has anything. And he has made it clear, several times, that he will never put D18 in jeapardy that way. Also, they have discussed how she doesn't want to attend parties where there is drinking, and he has promised never to ask her to go to any such parties.

He talked to his parents about driving their cars, and they pretty much refused to allow it, except on special occasions. He is not allowed to drive his dad's Mercedes at all when his dad is gone, and we know that is 8 months out of the year. So if we were to adhere to this rule, they would basically just have to be one of those 8th grade romances, where the parents take them everywhere, or they can only go places with the parents, or they only hang out at each other's house. They're seniors in high school now, and it's just illogical to expect any relationship in 12th grade to succeed in such circumstances. Think back to our high school; relationships like that simply didn't exist.

Finally, in only 8 months, she may well be gone to college and will be riding with people away from us. I'd much rather watch her deal with a car that's not quite as safe as a BMW now, where I can watch what she does and offer advice if needed, than to depend on her to know how to handle any issues on her own without us. She will not be any different in 8 months than she is now.

So I'm going to sit D18 and C down, whenever I see him next, and tell him that she's allowed to ride in his car, but that we (you and I) are going to be extra-vigilant to make sure he doesn't get too comfortable with D18 in the car and forget all the promises he's made about how safe he will be and how he will protect our daughter. She'll still have to call when she leaves one place and when she gets to another, or will be grounded. She knows that I have to know where she is for emergencies at all times. She isn't going to forget that, now that she's getting in the habit. I'm going to tell him that I will be checking on his driving at regular intervals and will talk to his mom about my concerns, so she can help me monitor things.

I hope you can understand why we need to do this. I'm not trying to diminish how important your fears for D18 are, but I'm trying to find a solution that is acceptable and won't brand D18 as an outcast for being so over-protected compared to everyone else.

Love,
CP

Cat - Good letter.

There is also the thought that it is better for her to reach these social milestones with you and your husband nearby to guide her, versus after she starts college. Has she given any indication if she wants to attend college far enough away from home that she has to dorm or share a place with another girl or two?

When I was growing up, there were these two kids up the street that were sent to a private Christian school. Well, the girl ended up being wilder than her public school counterparts. She swore like a fisherman's wife, got pregnant in high school, ended up living in an RV and pumping out 3 kids one right after the other, and later got a divorce. I just don't think trying to shield our kids by dictating their social life is proof positive that they won't eventually get into trouble. In fact, it might make those questionable characters and hangouts more appealing, intriguing simply because they ARE forbidden.

Also, I think it sends a message that we aren't confident in our own parenting or their judgment, simply because they are a product of that parenting. And depending on the child's personality, they might never learn to trust their own judgment because the parents had no faith in it, or they'll go in the opposite direction and figure every parental protest is out-of-wack, over-the-top, unreasonable, unrealistic, out-of-touch, obsolete, and therefore should be ignored. I think there has to be a middle ground - lots of open communication like you have with your daughter, and in your case, an adult who can act as intermediary between other parent and child.

I do think there's a very delicate balance though. It puts that parent in a difficult position - one where you have to be careful not to undermine the other parent, not be condescending, but know the child and other parent so well, that your delivery and common sense approach makes sense to both parties.

Cat, I hear you being nervous about the letter. You're not going to send it to his work email, right? Just checking.

I had a hard time responding yesterday beause of what I read between the lines. This is my assumption, not what you wrote.

"please don't be mad please don't be mad please please don't be mad"

Cat, it's pretty clear from here why your H thinks your daughter is unsafe from this guy. Because your H is not safe. And your daughter doesn't stand up to him. He trained her not to question male authority. Not to think for herself. Like you did at her age, cat, he sees her as going from his home to having some other male to protect her. And you made a bad choice there. Your daughter has already made a bad choice there, too, last year.

But then, look at what she did when she figured out that she was in over her head. She got the help that she needed, got out. That right there is reason to think hat she is competent to clear a new path.

And he may well not see a 17 year old boy as responsible to do do right by your daughter. Because he doesn't understand that your DD18 is capapble of defending herself. All things that I worried about my siblings, when they were that age, that they would be taken advantage of by predators. That Adult Child thing, Cat, that folks won't take care of themselves. Because they don't have the tools. And we don't have the tools, either, to keep them safe, so they are in endless danger. All we can do is offer warnings and control, that isn't going to be effective anyhow. What a cycle it was!

These are my assumptions, based on how I felt back then. I think that it makes sense to find out what your H thinks, if he hasn't shared it already.

I would say, cat, what about telling him, you're not enthusiastic about the current agreement? That you're willing to discuss an agreement that you're both happy with. But meanwhile, you're not happy with this one. What about a thoughtful request, that your DD drive out with C only in daylight hours in well-populated areas for the first few weeks. Calling in every hour. Something like when kids get their drivers' licence in a step by step way.

I know aeri is getting further with not discussing agreements. Because it had gotten to it being stuck between there being a winner and a loser. And that may hold for your H, I don't pretend to understand that dynamic.

ears, this is really good stuff. You really nailed it. I, too, was uncomfortable with the letter but couldn't pinpoint it. I wasn't giving him any voice, just took it away. I need to do this fairly so he won't feel attacked as he usually does.

I think I'll give him my arguments for why I think it needs to change, and give him your compromise suggestion, and see what he says.

Thanks so much. As usual.

Hi cat, I'm glad that it helped. Rereading it, she does tell your H "no", so that is reason, too, to have confidence that she will speak up when it's hard.

I was thinking of The Dance of Anger, wondering if this would be a good thing to process with your brother and your mother, too, to think through your concerns, you know what I mean, your concerns, not the stuff that you found that was private. You could ask them how they felt when you were that age. What courses of action that they took, and how they felt about them. Maybe your H's mother, too? I don't remember ever hearing about her, is she still around? I'm asking because I'me finding this really healing, to talk to my FOO as fellow adults. Not asking their advice, but their perspective, while you think through your own. I like how that book talks about doing that. Then, when you talk to your H, you can share your concerns together, too, and how you're thinking it through. Not two folks on opposite sides, you know? But as a partner. Like we share with each other here, openly, validating each other, learning from one another as equals, no fears of attack.

Hi cat, I saw you still online, and was wondering if you spoke to H about the car and driving?

How's your self-care going? Do you get down when your H is gone, do you feel more like yourself?

Hi ears, thanks for thinking of me.

I didn't talk to H about the car, but I sent a few really nice emails to him today, buttering him up so to speak, showing him ahead of time that I care about him, stuff like that. I am planning to review the text tomorrow before I send it. I'm a writer, so I know the benefit of putting text through several revisions, and of putting it away for a period and then revisiting it. I'm going to take my time. I have until next Wednesday.

I'm so conflicted, though. I don't remember if I talked before about this 'wall' I have had all my life, this numbness. My old IC told me it was a defense mechanism against my parents' indifference, not to care that I was just there. Bottom line, I have just never really...felt anything. I think the most emotion I've ever felt was when I accidentally ran over my cat.

Well, I took that wall into my adult life, which was probably sabotaging anything I did. So fast forward to today, and while I technically love my H, I can stand outside myself and wish he didn't come home. I hate myself for feeling that way, because I also still see that if I had just known how to stand up for myself all those years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess.

I guess that's why I'm so determined to teach D18 how to know how to fix things before they get too bad.

Anyway, to answer your question, I'm in heaven when H is gone. It's like the stress is just peeled away all in one clean sweep. I was just thinking, I can sit here in bed at night and play solitaire on the computer for 2 hours if I want, instead of worrying if I'm making H angry.

Oh well...

On the bright side, I signed D18 for a 2 hour sewing class that she took tonight, sewed a pillow all on her own. I've been trying to teach her to sew for a good 5 hours, and she always made excuses not to go through with it. But she was SO proud of herself tonight after finishing it. I so hope she becomes one of those people who can whip up anything she wants; I also found that they're selling used modern sewing machines for about $120; I'm still using the Sears one my mom bought me for graduating high school (yes, 1976). So I'm going to put $20 aside every month until I can afford an upgrade.

OK, so I've been working on my letter for 2 days, and I've been sending nice caring emails to H, to show him I care. ears, I hope you don't mind, but I incorporated part of your comments into the letter.

Anyone, please read this and see if you see any danger points. I have tried to be as non-DJ as possible while still standing firm in that I have the right to counter his decision, which he never gave me any right to question in the first place.

Our IC told me that I have to start standing up to him about his choices over D18. This has to be my hill to die on. I had a long talk with D18 today about all this, how afraid of him she is, how sad she is that she's so different from all her friends in terms of what she gets to do, and I made it clear that this will change this year. No matter what I have to go through. I told her to pack a bag for a couple days' worth of clothes, keep it in the car, and be prepared to leave the house if H and I get into it. That I'm willing to leave him if he won't be reasonable.

Anyway, any comments are welcome. This is my first real time to stand up to him, I have to do it now while he's gone so that we have these few days to get over the shock before he gets home. So I need to be understanding, but firm in that I can't allow this decision to stand.

Here's the letter:

H,
I've been thinking a lot about D18 and C, and their relationship. And our relationship with them. Here's what I’m thinking about it; let me know how you feel about this.

I completely understand your gut feeling about C and his car, and it's scary to me, too, to let her out of our sight. But I realize that we need to rethink letting her ride in his car. For several reasons.

First, she's 18. We’ve already realized that our level of protectiveness has been a little too strong for someone her age. I know there have been valid concerns, like the quality of our mall, but there are also valid reasons to let go of her.

Legally, she could leave any time she wants. I’m not saying she’s going to, but we are driving her away from us with our over-protectiveness. Seniors in high school are usually riding everywhere with everyone, going to malls and parties and movies and the beach, even trips. The more we try to control this aspect, the stranger she seems to her friends and the less they invite her to do anything. She already has a reputation for having overbearing parents. But if we make choices like this, where she’s not allowed to do the basic things teenagers do, she may just starting to act like the kind of kid who goes around us, like Steve and Catherine experienced.

It sends a message that we aren't confident in our own parenting or her judgment. She might never learn to trust her own judgment because WE had no faith in it; or she may start deciding that every one of our protests is over-the-top or unreasonable, and therefore should be ignored. She already shows signs of being unsure of herself in some situations, because we treat her like she can’t make good decisions, that we have to do it for her; how is she going to handle herself for 9 months in another town next year?

We need to have enough faith in her to trust that she will handle her senior year as responsibly as we could hope for. She’s already one of the most trustworthy, goody-two-shoes kids we know. What other girl do you know who would flat out tell every guy she dates that she won’t have sex with them? We need to reward that integrity by letting her prove herself on her own, like every other senior.

I understand why you think D18 is unsafe with C. It’s because you have trained her not to question your authority, so you’re afraid she won’t think for herself around him, won’t stand up for herself – because that’s what she does at home. That’s what happened last year with Brandon, but the thing is, she DID recognize the problem and came to me and Peggy for help, and got away from him. That proves that she knows how to recognize a bad situation and protect herself from it.

And I know you don’t like C, for your own reasons, but I disagree. You may know boys, but I know people. I see someone who is more mature than most boys his age, who is far more intelligent, who has long-term goals in life and has no intention of giving them up for some stupid fun in high school. Because of his dad being gone, and being the oldest child, he’s got a lot more sense of responsibility than most kids I’ve met. So I think that your fear of him deciding to race somebody (something he has never done) with D18 in the car is just a fear, not likely to happen. And the car has just as many safety features as all the rest of the cars out there except for a couple of kinds; so she’s going to be as safe as we can possibly wish.

Also, she's ridden with C before, before you banned her from it, and she says that he is completely respectful and a good driver. She says he has never driven over the speed limit, never run a stop sign or stop light, won't even use his phone when he's driving. He's been driving for 2 years now, has never had a speeding ticket, never had a wreck, which is a pretty safe driver. And the few times he's been to a party where drinking is involved, he spends the night if he drinks. And he has made it clear, several times, that he will never put D18 in jeopardy that way.

He talked to his parents about driving their cars, and they pretty much refused, except on special occasions. I talked to his mother about it once, and she was actually a bit upset with us for suggesting that he should drive their cars when he has a perfectly good one and he’s such a good driver (her words). So if we don’t allow her to ride in his car, they’ll barely get to see each other, and I don’t want to be the person to ruin her most important high school romance just because we don’t trust them. Also, think back to when we were high school seniors; relationships like that simply didn't exist – we all were on our own, driving everywhere – and surviving just fine.

Finally, in only 8 months, she may be gone and will be riding with people, away from us. I'd much rather watch her deal with a guy and a car that's not quite as safe as a BMW now, where I can watch what she does and offer advice if needed, than to depend on her to know how to handle any issues on her own without us.

So I'm not enthusiastic about the current agreement, for all of the above reasons. I’m willing to discuss an agreement you can be happy with. So what about this? I will sit D18 and C down and tell him that we are going to do a trial period for a couple of weeks, for her to be able to ride in his car during daylight hours. Just like we do with other ways we have let her spread her wings, she will call in to one of us every hour, whenever she is with him, just to comfort us so we won’t worry. If things turn out ok for those 2 weeks, like I expect them to, I’m going to tell him she can start riding in his car, but that we (you and I) are going to be extra-vigilant to make sure he doesn't get too comfortable with D18 in the car and forget all the promises he's made about how safe he will be and how he will protect our daughter.

She'll still have to call when she leaves one place and when she gets to another, or will be grounded. She knows that I have to know where she is for emergencies at all times. She isn't going to forget that. I'm going to tell him that I will be checking on his driving at regular intervals and will talk to his mom about my concerns, so she can help me monitor things. I don’t see how we can make her situation any safer than that.

I hope you can understand why we need to do this, and I hope you won’t be too mad about me coming to this conclusion. I'm not trying to diminish how important your fears are, but I'm trying to find a solution that is acceptable and won't brand D18 as an outcast for being so over-protected compared to everyone else. I want her senior year to be the best memories she has, and I know you do, too. So I’m asking you to accept this and understand that it’s necessary, to allow her to be like the other kids in school and ride in her boyfriend’s car.

Love,

Hi Cat I have an eighteen year old son so kinda no what your going though. Maybe its time for her to learn to deal with her father, no matter how difficult it may be for her, she is going to run into difficult people all her life and this may be a good place to start. I know whats it is like to want for them and feel the need to fight their battles, but by doing that will cause conflict for you and your husband and will not teach her anything. As for the letter, if you really want to do it maybe just state the facts and put it in short form, leave the details for discussion, since men have a shorter attention span I think and I worry he might dose off, I know my husband would . Just a thought good luck to you

Yes, my gut reaction is also that this is too long. You know your H and maybe it needs to be this long, to lay before him all the reasons... but I think in most cases shorter is better.

Also, I know ears suggested you be less adamant, but I thought your IC was saying this does need to be you for sure standing up to him. Your hill to die on. But this letter sounds like you're still open to negotiating whether or not she's allowed to ride in his car. Maybe that's on purpose... it isn't how I'd handle it, but who says I'm the best at such things. (Hint: not me, and not my H!)

I don't know if this would be good, but I would want to say something like, "We're overprotecting DD18 and there's a danger that it will have the opposite effect we want, since she's going to be leaving home soon. I've worried about this for awhile, and now the IC has confirmed it. I think we should let her ride in the car with C, and the IC agrees. I'm willing to discuss with you conditions you think we should put in place, but I definitely think she should be allowed to ride with C."

Those are just my words, not necessarily the best words; the main point is, I would say it a lot shorter. "Here's something I think we're doing wrong; here's a brief statement of why I think it's wrong; here's someone else outside the situation for a reality check; here's what I'm willing to negotiate; here's what I think isn't up for negotiating."

You can do this! Think of the recent positive results from speaking your mind!