It also sounds to me like you're letting this situation be this way. By that, I mean you are nearly silent about what you're not getting. Even when you discuss it, you don't discuss it in a way that you both reach a POJA wherein he gets it and realizes it's very important for him to pay attention.

So you say your gripe, wait for him to 'change', and when he doesn't, you feel more sorry for yourself. You make yourself a victim. Which can make you feel good, but it doesn't solve anything.

What that means is that you have to determine what you're willing to put up with. If you can live like this the rest of your life, do so. But if you have to see change, then start working on that change. But remember, this is YOUR change we're talking about, since you can't make him want to do anything.

Your change can involve things like telling him you need more alone time so you need him to watch the baby for 2 hours every Saturday while you run errands. Ask him which two hours would be most convenient for him, and then starting doing it! In other words, don't let him get away with agreeing but never getting around to doing it. You'll have to take the initiative to ensure he lives up to his word, probably.

But once you set some needs/results in place and follow through a few times, they may start being incorporated into your normal life.

No no. You just need to soup up the old one.

If you want him to put his arm around you, just ask him nicely. "Honey, could you put your arm around me? I'm cold." Then just casually maneuver your body so that his hand is in a place that will get his attention.

It can lead to things. And that give you leverage for maybe a back or foot rub first.

Dang - Where is Pieta when we need her?

You can also begin to give statements that lead to other things, such as: "I started reading this really interesting book the other day." And then stop. See if you have his attention. "It's about this woman and this man and....yadda, yadda."

You also need to start being more active in conversations where he is not already distracted, such as over dinner rather than when he's watching TV. Tell yourself that the dinner conversation will not be about the relationship or asking him to do anything. It's just going to be pleasant. Tell him what the kids are up to, etc. Get the kids to talk to him, tell him about their day. Try to engage him. Make it a habit to initiate conversation between everyone else.

Well I will try it tonight if I so help me get a foot rub ever from my dearest bag of potatoes "I mean husband" I think I would drop dead from shock. Thanks again.

I know you probably meant that tongue-in-cheek. But it is easy to progress from jokingly saying such a thing to having more serious thoughts about it. At least that is what happened in my case. That is why I asked you if you were sexually attracted to other men. I went down that road and it is a bad road to go down.

Well, it's worth a try. You just never know until you do.

To Cat you may be right that at times I am too silent, and just give up, throw up my hands and say forget it. I feel that after nineteen years of marriage I have become like a broken record, I feared that If I have to keep telling him to do things that please me its bothering him and when he does it its robotic and not natural. I doubt I have any aspirations of being the victim as you mentioned if that were the case then he has left a trail of us victims, like his children, his parents his siblings his extended family. Until he sees the benefits of himself putting in effort to please others then he does not see any point in trying in the least to show attention or affection to people that care about him.

Jenny as for your question no I have no interest what so ever regarding other men, I have invested so much time and energy in to this one I if it does not work out I may become a nun.

I guess I didn't explain myself properly. What I was trying to say is that you control your actions. If you're not getting what you need, it's up to you to change the dynamics. No, you can't make him suddenly care about other people, but remember that you can't read his mind. You don't really know why he is like that, so making assumptions is dangerous and damaging.

Like they say, if you keep doing the same thing and getting the same result...so stop doing the same thing!

Having boundaries means that you determine what you're willing to accept, and if someone crosses one of those boundaries, you have a response waiting. It could be one of a million things, and will depend on y'all's relationship. But until you're willing to set those boundaries - and live or die by them - you'll continue to keep getting the same thing, the same result. Right?

"Honey, when we have dinner, I feel like I'm having dinner by myself. I try to start conversations, but you have yet to engage in those conversations, for whatever reason. So I'm getting more and more upset and distant. And I don't want to be like that; it's not healthy for our marriage, and it makes me afraid that I'm going to reach a point where I stop caring about you. So I'd like to discuss with you a way that we can reach some sort of compromise. Can you tell me first why you don't like to talk at dinner? Maybe it's something I'm doing, and I can stop doing it! Whatever it is, we can find a way to get both of our needs met, if we work together on it. What do you think?"

I'm sure there's a better way to say that, but you get the idea.

To Cat what your saying is perfectly acceptable I have tried that, and he hears blah blah blah, complain, complain, and surly his male brain is starting to questions how many times a women has her time of month. I know it is bad to assume what he is thinking but that is all I have. I talk and he closes himself off the last thing I want my husband to feel like is a failure and like I am LB to an early grave. I have run out of ideas, I am tossed between seducing him as a way to get what I need or begging or bribing or shutting down. No matter what I do how long I do it for the outcome is the same. This guy is one tough cookie and I am at a loss.

Then that's when you bring in the boundaries and consequences. Doing this with a spouse who doesn't interact is a tough one, but it can be done if you're creative enough.

Here's an example. Not a great one - and I've been chastized here for non-MB behavior, but then, my H wasn't participating in MB anyway. But bottom line, it worked.

I do all the housework, H does part of outside. I told him that I was stressed, I needed some help. I asked him to pick one chore that he could take off my shoulders. He refused. I said that I'd have to find some way on my own, then. I guess he thought that meant I'd just work harder. So instead of just accepting that and remaining miserable, I decided that, if he wouldn't take one thing off my to-do list, I'd take one off myself. So I stopped washing his clothes.

After a couple weeks of him getting increasingly frustrated as his clean clothes disappeared, he angrily asks me why I stopped washing his clothes. I calmly reminded him of his refusal to help. Then I said 'I just figured that since you couldn't decide to help me with anything, and I had to let go of something so that I wasn't working 8 hours every night when I get home, I'd stop washing your clothes. That way, I've helped you find something to help me with.'

So he started attending to things around the house that had needed done for years. And I started washing his clothes again.

ETA. What you're saying is that you say something and then you're assuming what he thinks of you. May or may not be true. But the point is, you have to stop making how he feels your bellwether on whether or not you move forward with what you need.

Him thinking you're nagging, or whatever, is HIS choice. YOUR choice is to tell him you can no longer live with a particular situation, and here's what you're going to do about it - unless of course he wants to brainstorm with you on a better way for you to get what you need. Because one way or another, you WILL get what you need. He's getting what HE needs, so it's only fair that you do, too.

You have to change this stance of yours, and start looking at it as though you are equal and you have just as much right to your needs as he does.

What I'm trying to say is you need to do this thing in a proactive way - a discussion about how things will have to change, not a discussion about how you feel. Cos we all know those get you nowhere. It sucks, but it will have to be YOU taking the steps to change your dynamics.

Oh, and go get a little book from the library called The Dance of Anger. It covers exactly what you're going through.

Cat thank you for that, I am so happy to see it worked out for you. I was thinking the only time he really showed any attention to me on his own was when I was too tired for sex when the children were babies. My sex drive went back to normal right after they slept threw the night but he went to his old ways. He seems to still hold a grudge from that and I have explained that I was stressed, the babies all had colic and it did not help that I was forced to sleep on the sofa down stairs seven days a week so he could get his rest.

Do you think it would be a bad thing to say listen dear husband I love you but this marriage is draining me emotionally and I need you need to do x y and z for me because " reasons fill in blank" to put out from now on ? I do not like the idea of with holding sex really because it is that one time that we are physical. What do you think?

I will check out the book first thing, maybe if anything he will start to take notice of all the marriage books I have been reading. I feel like shaking him to wake him up sometimes if I had the strength I think I would.

I think that as long as you are being respectful and honest, you need to tell him how you feel. Just as you need for him to tell you how HE feels. You have to be careful, though, not to make it a blamefest.

Logical, analytical discussion of things that are going on in the marriage that are affecting either or both of you. Of possible consequences of those things. Of concerns you have. Of needs you have that aren't being met - but welcome a discussion with him about it; make sure you're not just telling him how things need to be, but rather how things are affecting you, and can we work out a solution together?

O.k checked out the book and got some great reviews so I will pick it up this weekend. I can see that I put him first and hold in my anger to the point that I am stewing in my own juices "not healthy". He did not care because your right his needs are met and I have not been assertive enough to make my case, for fear of him pushing me away farther. I have to get over how he will react to my requests because obviously I have been getting no place and my needs are not unusual or extreme or going to go away. He is not getting off the hook anymore this not going to be when or if or but and one hundred excuses discussion, with any blame or pointing of fingers. Thanks Cat.

OMG, Soolee, Catperson, Jennydream, and Earsopen it is official the sky is falling. Last night my husband picked me up after work, I went to the gym and went grocery shopping and went out to get the book Cat recommended " I am half way into the book and it is very well written and your right, it suits my situation .

Well I was in a good mood when he picked me up, and he seemed to be tired and moody " I know, I know its bad to assume" so I just gave him his space. The rest of the night seemed to be the same me reading, the children off doing there own thing and him having his nap and watching TV. So I made an attempt to snuggle but I seemed to be bothering him. So I picked up my book and said in a pleasant voice " I am going upstairs to read" he asked "why" I said "because your in a mood not sure what mood your in but I can be mad by it and be lonely down stairs and read or I can let you have your mood and time and read upstairs and hopefully you will snap out of it, I do not want to argue"

He thought about it and said " just stay down stares and read in a more pleasant tone. So I did, I lay across from him on the sofa and he, he, he did the most unthinkable thing he grabbed my feet and rubbed them. No word of a lie I almost fell off the sofa but did not make a big deal out of it because I did not want it to stop. I must of read the same paragraph of the book about ten times over again because I was so shocked. After he stopped I gave him a big romantic kiss and said thank you. The rest of the night i gave him his space and was able to finish the chapter before we headed up to bed, and I was able to model some little things I had purchased a few months back IT WAS A GREAT NIGHT FOR BOTH OF US!!! despite is being overtired that day.

Thanks again guys for your advice and I will keep working on myself. Have a great day all have I really have to keep busy.

tired, that's great! I'm actually having the same sort of weekend. For the first time in a decade, I spoke up and made him think about the fact that he's the only one being satisfied. It really threw him. I too got a foot massage, and body massage! And my H actually hung up laundry, the second time in 30 years I've seen him do that!

Just like the book says, I have been making every effort to be affectionate to him (big EN) to show him how much I appreciate what he's doing. Things are going SO much better!

The key? Being honest. Telling spouse that we're not getting what we need. I've been reading it for a year now here, and just finally getting the nerve to say so, and it is working miracles. That, and following the book by reciprocating so he feels appreciated and loved.

Good work!

Wow Cat thats terrific I think things are looking up for me as well, yesterday I cleaned up the house and while I was cleaning out the freezer he came up behind me pulled me up spun me round and gave me a kiss and hug! I was shocked and please and said WOW. I went out for a few hours for me time and to pick up a few things I forgot to get, and when I got home he had cleaned the oven! Its self cleaning and I do hate doing it because it smokes up the house so doing it while I was out is a a big deal and I made sure he new I appreciated it. Then I noticed to place I sit to relax he put water bottles and new candles.

So after thanking him and giving him a warm kiss, I made a really nice dinner, surf and turf, it took me hours and never once bothered him while he was watching his sports and having his nap. Also had another good night if you get what I am saying.

Really enjoyed the book Cat good for all relationships it does warn that that things could revert back if one partner or person does not like the new so I have to expect that also, to take things slow all good advice. Have a great day Cat and all.

Tired, I am so happy for you! That is an awesome book. I am so glad to see you have such a joyful weekend

Just an update to all those that posted on my thread with their own experiences and or advice that gave me some hope again a thank you.

Well my week so far has been going awesome, I have made some serious changes and have dropped a lot of things from my to do list that was doing my marriage harm and I feel much more free and in control of myself than I have since before we were married.

We are connecting again (and I am taking baby steps) I can now see that in the past I have bitten off more than I am willing or capable of chewing without feeling resentment, and am now focusing on myself and how to make me feel good. This does not mean that I have abandon my family, no, nothing of the sort because as I see it being giving and nurturing is a big part of who I am. I just am not responsible for everyones happiness and deserve to be treated with the same kindness, respect and care that I show.

I have put the past behind me, its not that I will not think of all the bad things that have happened before but I will not let it affect the choices I will make now its not that I will forget the past and sometimes this things will pop into my mind but to ether brush the bad aside if they are not productive thoughts. I will tell dearest husband, children etc when I am feeling abused and neglected or walked on at the time with care of my wording to make sure my message is being understood. I make the choice to what I am willing to accept me and only me and If I accept it its my own fault.

I am trying to be more understanding that my husband does not think and feel the way I do, this kinda reminds me of my brother when he was little and when he went to school the first day he came home and said " o.k I went to school and now I am done right?" I think I hit home to my husband when I said that I need more affection and certain things everyday or at least more consistently not just when he wants something, and that these feeling have always been there and will never go away, this is not a passing fad. Guess what he is actually showing more affection!!

He still watches way to much tv and I have said so, I still want to put my foot threw it, but I am being more receptive to his needs for space and down time. I realize if I want more family time or more one on one time with dear husband, I am going to have to start making the plans for now until he feels more confident in it, so its bowling for all this Sunday and I am planing a romantic dinner for just the two of us next week.

Well thanks again guys, I am feeling much more positive than ever these days. Have a great weekend all.

Hi tired, thanks so much for coming back to share your success. It gives me hope to read that

Hi Ears open, believe me when I say I almost lost hope, at the end of my rope, it was pretty dark for a long time and I really could not see any light at the end of this dark tunnel. I hope all is good for you and your family I would really love to hear your story or experiences.

I have read almost every book about relationships and thought I tried just about everything. The truth was this was not my husbands fault if anything the problems in my relationships were all of my own doing "I created a monster". I have taken a little from this and that book and have applied all the positive ideas that are not silly and manipulative and they seem to be helping. Most books have the same base (fix yourself) I think I just needed to hear that and have it drilled into my head just one more time, so thats what I have been doing and will continue to do.


I married a good man a kind, funny talented, rational person logical all the things that I admire and he married a passionate, loving, giving, funny, talented and free spirit. When things were dark we forget those good qualities ever existed because we are so focused of the negative, blaming, resentment, building up walls. My problems is I just accepted the negative and eventually created a cycle and it was building momentum and I sustained it. I lost sight of who I was and what my goals and needs were. I was asking him to break the cycle but he too had accepted the way things were so it was left to me and if I want to save my marriage had to do it ( end the stalemate ).

I know I have a lot of work to do and know now my husband loves me, changing and growing will be difficult but its needed to be done. I am going to take it day by day and remember there will be bumps in the road but to stay focused and remain positive. You have a great day and all the best to you.

Tired, that is so true. I keep reminding myself that I can choose my focus, that I can choose my perspective. I like the expression "Be the lighthouse." I can't be a lighthouse to myself or anyone else, including my kids that I am responsible for, when I am crashing into rocks and churning in the waves below. I need to remind myself that the hand back up is always still there, when I'm ready to get back up. I am grateful that I can come here and IRL spend time with folks making choices from integrity, regardless of what the weather is like today.

I have a long thread, "Am I Off Track," with my story, and the great perspective, the hand back up, that I've been offered, in different ways, time and again. I have a lot to be grateful for. And today, I can even see it I hope that you have a great weekend, too