I need some help with something...

By Zora's own post here, I tried for years to solve our marital problems. Books, sex issues, trying to get her to do outdoor things she loves all to no avail. I gave it my all for a LONG time. See her post i copied below...

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I know that most of the issues that we have together are my fault because I didn’t' care about the marriage for so long but I am wondering if there is a chance that I can bring him back in.

edited out paragraph here not relevent....

The trouble really started 3 years ago. Both of us got heavily involved in playing the online game Everquest2. We would play together for countless hours at a time ignoring each other, the dogs (we have 2) and our real lives.

After about a year and a half my husband tried to back away from the game and tried to work on our marriage. Our main problem was sex. I just didn’t have the appetite for it and he wanted it all the time. I’m still not totally sure what my issues are with sex, but it’s not because my husband is unattractive, but more because I have never felt confident about myself and my body.

He tried everything to get me interested in sex. He read all kinds of books, stuff on the internet and so on and so on. I was just never interested. The focus of all my energy was in that damned game.

He also tried us to get to do things together like biking and kayaking and all these outdoor activates that used to love so much before I started playing that stupid game. Again, I was never interested.

My denials for sex left my husband feeling inadequate as a man. I also in the past told him to lose some weight (because he was overweight) and maybe it would interest me in sex more. But hat just wasn’t the case. All of this again made him feel terrible about himself. And for a time I think he went through a depression.

In addition, I now admit to myself that somewhere in the middle of my gaming that I did have an emotional affair with another online gamer for a short period, maybe a few months. There were no phone calls or anything, mostly flirting in the chat channels. But I must admit I did like the attention. My husband knew it was going on at the time and he did confront me about it. But our gaming patterns changed so the online affair stopped eventually.
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Now fast forward... After quitting I falterd in my wedding vows and betrayed my wife. I found solice from a loveless, sexless marriage where I was the only one trying. I got my EN' met elsewhere. I was wrong, I Made a HUGE mistake.

Now Zora tried to resolve our marital problems this time for a good amount of time before quittig and faltering in her own extra marital affair with a close personal friend.

Why the double standard where you are encouragering her to leave her marriage, move on with the OTHER MAN. Why so quick to point out I was in a fog when she was trying but now that I am trying you give her excouragment to leave the marriage? No possibility she is also in the EXACT SAME FOG..

Please help because I am questioning the wisdom some dispense here. Please be honest, This just does not compute.

Is it ok for her because she posted first? You know her and not me?

I came to Marriage Builders to larn how to save a marriage, not hear advice on how to just put an affair off for a little while without trying.

Would you have said this to me had I posted first about her unwillingness until I quit?

""Zora, I would focus completely on your wants and needs and not pay attention to his smoke. This is just alot of talk designed to keep you on the farm. He feels uncomfortable without you and just wants to alleviate his discomfort. That doesn't mean there is anything here for you. Remember, when he had the chance, he did nothing. And he still has done nothing. And probably will do nothing. ""

And before you tell me I need to work on myself I know I do, but I dont think you should hold a double standard like this
Comments please.

I feel like you think this marriage is not worth the effort now but it was then because our situations are reversed?

We both screwed up. That does not mean you shold encourage her to quit which is what you are doing.

Silverwind, be assured that this is NOT a marriage at all costs program. There is no double standard in MY quote that you quoted above. Zora is doing exactly what Marriage Builders would prescribe, except at a much later date. You have been in your affair for YEARS and STILL TO THIS DAY are in daily contact with your OW. She should have separated with you a LONG TIME AGO and filed for divorce. She is only now doing that.

She should not change her plans to get a divorce from you based on 2 days of empty promises that will probably never come true.

I don't feel she should date anyone as a married woman and that is not what I am telling her. However, I don't believe she should give you a second thought except after a long DEMONSTRATION of trustworthy behavior. TALK and PROMISES, not backed by action, is NOT a demonstration of trustworthy behavior.

It would be a huge mistake for her to not get away from your abuse after having been abused for so very long. THEN, if perhaps you do actually change, she can consider you as an option in the future. But NOW, TODAY, it would be a huge mistake on her part to stop her plans.

So now you're playing the blame game - she's having an affair nah-nah-nah; she neglected me nah-nah-nah; how dare you chastise me and give her license to cheat on me nah-nah-nah???

What are you doing?

This is not attractive behavior, SW!

This will not win her back.

You cannot force her heart.

You want to chastise Melody Lane for seeing through your fraud?

Yes. Your fraud.

You DUMPED your wife. For whatever reasons. You admit your pride and ego mattered more than accepting her Plan A efforts. Now you're re-writing history since last night??

Get a clue buddy. A lot of time has been spent on you by people who care about you and Zora. Including Melody Lane - she does not pull any punches and she called you out on your imposition on Zora's thread. You're not that repentant yet to warrant Zora changing her path.

Yes, she's in a relationship now. You dumped her. Moved out. Were fine with the divorce. Regardless of whether or not that's what you truly felt, that's the message you sent. Zora rebounded right into the arms of someone else. YOUR choice.

But you want us to side with you and blame her? Instead of supporting you in becoming a better man than the one who pushed her into the arms of another man?

Get OFF HER CASE!

Get ON YOUR CASE.

Clean up your own heart and mind. Get out of your pity party. NO EXPECTATIONS or BLAME on ZORA. Got it?

I know that but SHE gave up and us and I fought like hell to fix it. Then I gave up.

NOW the situations are EXACTLY reversed and you are encouraging her to leave the marriage.

You did not once say that to her.. He should leave the marriage.

I was in my affair not for years. Not at all.

We really we just friend most of the time, not until we seperated and I move out in July did it evolve beoynd friendship. It was probably 6 months 7 tops.I should have ended all contact then, but I did not. It was just I dont even know what to call it from them till no, draining. We both were miserable for what we had done

I understand they are just words now, but why would you excourage someone to divorce? Why not encourage a continued seperation with no contact?

Why no talk of her being in a fog with the OM when she is saying the exact same things? That makes no sense! She IS IN A FOG. You are telling her she is not.

Silverwind,

You don't know me at all. You don't know the journey, the pain, the desparation and the absolute rejection I have faced for over 2 1/2 years.

My WH had an A for over a year, withholding SF from me for over a year telling me I wasn't safe and he couldn't trust me. When his A was uncovered by our son, he walked out on us. His OP is a crack addict with hep c, twice divorced who is absolutely trailer trash. But WH told me that he wanted something more than to be married to his best friend and that he had no desire for me because I was fat.

WH threw me away like a piece of garbage and hasn't looked back. Over 30 years with him and all I asked for was a chance.

You can't control anyone else but yourself. My humblest advice would be for you to look at your side of the street and stay out of hers. Let G-d work in her and you become the very best you can so that if you get your chance you won't blow it on selfishness or childishness of tit for tat.

If you want your M, stop worrying about what she is doing, listen to the advice of the vets on here and be willing to do what it takes because in the end, when everything is said and done, if you don't and you continue to feel sorry for yourself or make excuses of double standards, you will second guess yourself and that will be a killer.

Trust me, I know.

Not at all. I dont blame her for leaving me one bit.

I just think you should be maybe considering that she in in a fog. I see the EXACT same behavior I did, Same wording, Same lies.

She SHOULD leave me.


"You DUMPED your wife. For whatever reasons. You admit your pride and ego mattered more than accepting her Plan A efforts. Now you're re-writing history since last night??"

Yes I did, but when it was the other way around you though it was worth fixing, now you seem to think the exact opposite.

I know she wont like this, But I cant not point out the differences in your advice to each of us when the situaion is almost identical only reverse.

If you advised me to seperate and divorce when I wanted to last year while I was still in my A I probbaly would have forced her to D although she did not want it. And because you did not do that, She fought and won eventually.

"You don't know the journey, the pain, the desparation and the absolute rejection I have faced for over 2 1/2 years. "

I have some idea... Zora was very cruel to me for years, by her own admission and made me feel inadaquite. Its not quite the same, but I do know.

I know queenie, I can only control myself.

But I can point out if I think the information being given is flawed and may be encouraging her to Just put of an Affair for a short while.

That is what it seems like to me,

I dont have a problem one bit with anyone saying Leave him. NOT ONE BIT. I say it too.

I have a problem with you all ignoring her possible for and basically say Get the D, wait till its complete, then move on with a mutual friend of ours who was a shoulder to cry on and now you in an Affair with.

Again,

Please stop worrying about her and get on with becoming that most amazing man and husband for HER.

Trust the process.

ummmm, YOU are in the fog, my friend. YOU are still in touch with your OW and have never stopped it. You are about as foggy as they come and have been this way for a very long time.

She made a decision to get a divorce based on the hopelessness of her marriage, and nothing has changed. You only became willing to even consider stop contact with your OW when she made a decision to get divorced. And nothing has changed since she made that decision, except you have suddenly decided you want to keep her on the farm.

Well, your desire to keep her around is not a good reason for her to stay her plans. She cannot sacrifice her best interests just because you want something.

Nothing has changed, SW. So she should not change her plans.

I have stopped it. Not long ago but I have.

You dont think she could be falling into the same trap I did when she refused to work on us?

This is supposed to be an excuse for your affairs? Can you say FOGGY? She should not even consider you as an option when you say things like this, SW. This is classic blameshifting.

Stopped WHAT?? Aren't you going to work with OW on Monday?

ABsolutly Not.No excuse for ANY affair.

I OFFER NO EXCUSES. NONE.

Yes I am, and people here encourage me not to do anything drastic and just up and quit when I have bills to pay.

I wish I had, at the time I listened to Zora who also told me dont under any circumstance quit.

You dont think she could be falling into the same trap I did when she refused to work on us?


No one has answered that question. I saw it so clearly today, she said the exact same things.

She herslef asked the question only she did not admit to the A yet...

You need to worry about YOURSELF and leave her alone. This is what you wrote LAST NIGHT on this forum:


link

Dude, it doesn't matter what she is doing. She has her own side of the street to take care of.

Until you rectify what you did, make amends for what you did and own completely your side then you two won't come together.

What's more important? You being right, getting someone to answer this question or having your M back because you were willing to step up and be a new man and create a new M.

She is none of my business when I'm giving feedback to you. Her fog is none of my concern when I'm talking to you about your self-deception. Got it?

Her side of the fence is none of your business and has no part in your recovery. You're deluded if you think that your situations are identical - they are not. You still have fog. You are blame shifting as any wayward will.

No - you can't point out the differences in my advice to her. Not your place. My advice to her stands. Run as far away from you as she can while you clear your head on this. You are NOT A SAFE PERSON FOR HER - RIGHT NOW. You are not a changed man. Yet.

Stop rejecting the advice you've been given just because she's "doing wrong".

I advised her to continue on the current path - because nothing has changed. A glimmer of remorse turned to rage and righteous indignation does not bode well for her heart's safety in your hands.

"Yes, she's in a relationship now. You dumped her. Moved out. Were fine with the divorce. Regardless of whether or not that's what you truly felt, that's the message you sent. Zora rebounded right into the arms of someone else. YOUR choice.

But you want us to side with you and blame her? Instead of supporting you in becoming a better man than the one who pushed her into the arms of another man?""

You encourage Relationships while married? Rebounding while still married? What?