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I have searched the boards and have not been able to find a situation similar to mine. I need advice.
My WH(38) and I (38) have been married 13 years with 2 DS age 11 and 2. I found out about 6 weeks ago that he was having an A. He says that it was a PA that started about 8 months prior and happened about 5 or 6 times. During this time he was a good husband, spent lots of time at home with me and the kids, worked hard to improve our home and had lots of SF with me. It caught me by surprise when someone tipped me off that they had seen something I should be concerned about. I looked at cell records , there was only one message from several month ago. I put a tape recorder in his car and it took a few weeks before I caught them together.
When confronted he did the typical WH song and dance and denied it was more than a casual friendship. But I persisted with the evidence and he confessed.
This is where our situation becomes different than the norm. After admitting it, he begged forgiveness and was very sorry. He explained that she meant nothing to him other than an ego boost, because she was quite a bit younger than him. That night he called the OW, without prompting from me, and explained that it was wrong to hurt me and the kids and jeapordize the family and that he wanted nothing to do with her. I was listening on the other line. Since then he has been in full Plan A mode, even though he has no idea about MB. He is working overtime to rebuild my trust and get our marriage back on track. I don't believe they have had any contact and I believe he is sincere in his wish. He is not the type to put effort into something he is forced to do.
I on the other hand am not in Plan A mode. I am still very hurt and very angry and I want to lash out at him and hurt him. I can't believe that he could love me and be good to me and the kids while carrying on like this. While I don't want to get divorced for many reasons including financial, emotional harm to the kids and deep down I guess I must love him. How do I go back to him knowing that he has lied and taken advantage of me for so long? I want him to feel pain!
What do you do when a WH is in Plan A and trying very hard when all you want to do is push them away and punish them?
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NL, sorry you are here. Y'all are not in Plan A. That is a plan to negotiate the end of an affair. I on the other hand am not in Plan A mode. I am still very hurt and very angry and I want to lash out at him and hurt him. I can't believe that he could love me and be good to me and the kids while carrying on like this. While I don't want to get divorced for many reasons including financial, emotional harm to the kids and deep down I guess I must love him. How do I go back to him knowing that he has lied and taken advantage of me for so long? I want him to feel pain! Yes, you are supposed to be very hurt, that is the natural reaction to an affair. Here is a good article by Dr Harley about what it will take to effect recovery: Requirements for Recovery from an AffairThe plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bcas your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I guess that means that he is in recovery mode and I am in limbo.
Is it possible that the A was over without any emotional attachment at all? The one question that he can't answer to my satisfaction is why it happen and why he let it continue? I believe that if he dosen't understand why then it can happen again. I have my own theories as to why, but I want him to come up the reasons.
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I am still very hurt and very angry and I want to lash out at him and hurt him. THIS is recovery mode. Anger and hurt is a natural reaction in recovery. NL, is the OW married and does her H know about the affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What is an emotional attacment? I find it hard to define. I imagine he was addicted to the high he got from the relationship with her. Sounds like he was cake eating through the affair. When you "exposed the light of day" on his little secret, he became aware that he could lose you.
He may have gone through a withdrawal period--an eight month affair would seem to call for some amount of withdrawal. Maybe he hid that from you. This would be in line with the secretive behavior he was engaging in while involved in the affair.
He does need to take a good look at his behavior and figure out how he let down his boundaries. It sounds like you and he have a good idea about part of it--flattered by the attention.
Has he had a pattern of secretive behavior?--Does he tell you about his day, share his thoughts, hopes, dreams with you, tell you of his whereabouts, who he ate lunch with, who he talked to, who he saw, who he worked with??
I can't remember, do they still work together? They cannot see each other again. He should not see her car, her name, hear of her from others, etc.
Has he told you all you want to know? Do you have full access to all his info-telephone records, charge cards, computer passwords, accounts, etc.
It is hard to work through all this and it is your choice. If you want to work through it though, best to get to work and figure out what you need from him to help you begin to heal. Punishing him also punishes you. Have you filled out the emotional needs questionnaire and read about love busters? Have you thought about "just compensation" to help you heal?
It's always hard for them to tell you "why" it happened. But he does need to figure out his weaknesses and what made him vulnerable to an affair so that he makes sure it does not happen again.
Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977
N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
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Your story sounds very close to mine. FWH was doing plan A concepts even while I was busting his chops. H voluntarily cut off contact rather quickly, had me on the other line to tell OW he didn't love her, wanted his family, etc. Took all sorts of steps that I would consider sincere efforts to recover the M; some of which genuinely surprised me because I thought he wouldn't ever have thought about it without me telling him.
As for the deceit and lies, it's mind boggling. Made me ashamed that this man was my H and the father of my children. I wanted to hurt him and I did. Not my proudest moments in life but I just couldn't keep it in anymore and kaboom. It was scary. Your anger and resentment are normal and should lessen over time. You will have days where you just want to knock his head off. Things he says even with good intentions will make you see red but you need to remember what the goal is...recovery not revenge.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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The OW is not married, she is in her early twenties. So there is no other husband to expose to.
My WH owns a restaurant/bar. She was a friend of a bartender that filled in a couple of shifts about 8 months ago and then started to hang around on her time off. According to my husband she works at another restaurant down the street. He couldn't give me many other details about here because he says he really didn't pay much attention. He dosen't know her last name or where else she might work, etc.
He says he dosen't miss her and just wants to move on and make things better with me. There seems to be no withdrawl at all, unless he is doing a really good job of hiding it from me.
A bit more background on our relationship. We were highschool sweethearts and started dating in our late teen years. He was my first serious boyfriend and has been my only sexual partner. About 3 years into the marriage he opened the restaurant/bar and I became pregnant with our first child at the same time. This lead to issues in the marriage with him working long hours and me feeling abandonned at home with the baby. About 6 years ago, we were separated for a year. Our communication had broken down and he was distant. I had had enough and asked him to leave, thinking it would get him to realize what he was giving up. BIG MISTAKE! While he claimed he loved us and wanted to come back to us, he strung us along for a year while he lived at his mother's and started an affair with a waitress. He kept the relationship a secret from me and his family but not his co-workers. He told them we were getting divorced. He kept this up for a year, juggling her and string me along. Finally, I conviced him to move back home or I was going to file for divorce. When at home I checked his phone records and put a tape recorder in his car and found out everything.
Without knowing what I was doing I really went into Plan A. I exposed everything to his family, tried hard to make him see that I was a good wife. He fired her and within a couple of months we were recovering.
The problem is I still hold a great deal of resentment from that time and I have never really let go of it. While he worked hard to build back the trust and to show me and our son that we were the most important things in his life, I let him back into my heart but kept some of the walls up. However, things were so much better than before and we came to a place where we both felt that things were strong. We had our second child about 2 years ago.
That is why this has been a shock to me in many ways. He did not act the way he did in the past, he is attentive and spends time with all of us. He is not distant and share details of his day with me, I have access to his cell phone, etc. The problem is when he is at work there is lots of opportunity. The employees are young, the customers at the bar are a young crowd, there is alchohol and a party atmosphere.
I though he learned from our previous experience just how much he vaules us. I just can't see how he can rebuild trust with me. He was good to me before this and he is even better to me now, but the oppportunity to do this again exists and it is easy.
How do I start to recover. How do I trust that his efforts are genuine when I know that there is opportunity for something casual whenever he wants?
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I though he learned from our previous experience just how much he vaules us. I just can't see how he can rebuild trust with me. He was good to me before this and he is even better to me now, but the oppportunity to do this again exists and it is easy. I don't see how you CAN recover if the conditions that led to the last affair have not been changed. You are right to be VERY ANXIOUS. It is not lack of trust that causes affairs, but a lack of BOUNDARIES. Your H works in an environment that fosters adulterous behavior. You do see how this is not going to work, don't you?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Every word of this article is true, EVERY WORD: Requirements for Recovery from an AffairThe plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bcas your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details. Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Is it possible that the A was over without any emotional attachment at all? Yes, that is certainly possible, especially for a man. My FWW had a "f_ckbuddy" that she met once every 2 or 3 months for 3 and a half years. They'd have a quickie and that's it. No gifts, no dates, and very little communication, other than to schedule the next "meeting". After d-day, there was absolutely no fog, no pining, no more attempts at contact on either side. I think contacting OM's wife the day after d-day helped insure that. The one question that he can't answer to my satisfaction is why it happen and why he let it continue? I believe that if he dosen't understand why then it can happen again. I have my own theories as to why, but I want him to come up the reasons. It probably happened because he wanted some strange, his lack of character and integrity allowed him to seek it out, and he didn't think he'd get caught. Many people overthink the "why". He wanted to have sex with someone new, and he was enough of a scumbag to act on his urges. Any ego stroking is secondary with most men. That's why prostitutes get plenty of business.
Divorced
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The pain, the hurt, and the anger are all signs that you do love your WH. If there was no pain, hurt or anger, there would be no love and you could walk away. Someone here said surviving an affair sucks and getting divorced sucks.
Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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[quote=Krazy71][quote=NotLaughing]
It probably happened because he wanted some strange, his lack of character and integrity allowed him to seek it out, and he didn't think he'd get caught.
Although it hurts to look at the situation this way, you are right. He knew I loved him and put my trust in him and he is so self absorbed and lacking in integrity that he did this anyway! It makes me question our whole life together.
I understand that we need to eliminate the conditions that made this possible to ensure that it dosen't happen again. On D-day I was adamant that the place neede to be sold and that he could not go back to work. However, when reality set in I could see this is not really possible in the short term. We own the business. I have a full time job elsewhere and if I want to keep my job I can't be there at night. If we want to keep the business running he has to be there. We have been preparing the business to be sold for the last 6 months. After this, my husband listed it for sale, but this could take a long time to happen.
In the meantime, I continue to put the tape recorder in the car, I go there as often as I can and I make sure that everyone that works there knows we are still married. He has cut back on his hours and phone me from work several times a night to reassure me he is actually there.
But every night as he gets ready to go to work, my anxiety builds. He leaves and I am a nervous wreck. I feel like setting boundaries is useless. There is always more easy opportunity tomorrow.
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Most of the time, my FWW was screwing OM AT his place of employment, after hours. She could've called me 1 minute before screwing him, and again 15 minutes later, and I would've had no idea.
Divorced
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He does not know her last name??? That is a LIE. Give me a break. He is still lying to you. Do not accept that. You deserve to know who this OW is. If he will not tell you her last name, he is lying about other aspects of her and his relationship with her.
Doesn't know her last name, and he is a bar owner. What a lot of bull. There is more to this.
I mean no disrespect to you. I am sorry about what you are going through. I know this post sounds pretty intense. But I read your last post and I am really concerned for you and the way he is treating you. I know that waywards don't know a lot of information about the affair, but this just does not ring true.
Last edited by lake53; 10/07/08 05:20 PM. Reason: added last paragraph
Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977
N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
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LH, lake is right, you need to know her last name and everything about her so you can protect yourself from her. That filthy ho knows your name, I assure you. There should be no secrets here about who she is.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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But every night as he gets ready to go to work, my anxiety builds. He leaves and I am a nervous wreck. I feel like setting boundaries is useless. There is always more easy opportunity tomorrow. What about hiring a manager and taking a full time day job until it is sold?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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