There is no Biblical principle that advocates deceit and fraud, LB, so I don't know what this means. She has stated that she does not intend to expose the affair, so it is not a matter of choosing what to deal with first.



It is also commonplace for well meaning, but very misguided, folks to tell people what they want to hear in order to be liked. But is that helpful when someone wants endorsement for wrongdoing? Not to me.

25 was looking for people to tell her what she wanted to hear, as you did, rather than the truth. She felt insulted simply because she didn't want to hear that she is enabling her H. That is not the fault of posters, but the natural reaction of someone who does not want to hear truth.

As far as searching archives for nicer posts, there is nothing she could read that would be more CRITICAL to her situation than what is said on this thread. She might be able to avoid posts that tell her what she does not want to hear, but how is that helpful?

25, there is something else that is very important to consider. And that is that this will come out one way or the other. If you think you can keep his church affairs secret in any church, you are seriously deluded.

By not going to his pastor, you lose control of how this information comes out. When it comes out - and it will - it will be a huge scandal that will rock your church.

It will be a huge scandal no matter what, but if you went to the pastor and told him the truth NOW before it leaks out, this could be managed in a responsible manner by removing your H from church leadership and by informing all of his victims about his wrongdoing.

By not telling the pastor, you set the stage for a huge scandalous explosion. But be assured it will come out, and if you keep hiding it, that fact will come out too. You will have to answer to his victims about why you enabled him.

It WILL COME OUT, 25. One way or another. And when it does, you can be the bad guy or the good guy depending on your contribution to that exposure.

Yep... and no amount of spin will hide what has been hidden and by whom.

25,

Does your husband have any empathy for these young women? Does he understand the amount of stress he is adding to young couples lives? Please have him read some of the threads here, both from the WW and BH standpoints so that he might gain some insight.

God Bless
NJ

This was posted yesterday, October 7, by TwentyFive on this thread:

LovingBoundaries

"I agree that she would be responsible for any of HER behavior that was enabling, but that still wouldn't make her responsible for HIS abuse of authority.....that is his responsibility alone."

BW know's her husband is hurting people and she should not concern herself?

She should just let her WH go out there and use his position in the church to ordain some WW's and BH's.

Because her WH is not going out there to use a gun but only his penis it makes this BW absolved to turn a blind eye?

25,

I think you should know that this particular thread causes such concern because we trust that church is a comfort to us, we trust that our wives will be respected there, we trust that the preacher works for the good of his conregation.

God Bless
NJ

Not at all, but I don't think that your understanding it or not would be helpful to Twenty-five on her thread so I will drop it here.


Of course not. But sometimes we have to decide which issue to deal with FIRST. Sometimes we cannot deal with them all at once and we must make choices....and, again, that does NOT mean that any of the immoral choices are "respected."

Twenty-five is the one who has the right and responsibility to make that decision since she will be the one that will live with the consequences, both good and bad, of whatever she decides. Again, I would encourage her to pray for God's guidance and then follow it.


Maybe, maybe not. Or maybe she felt insulted instead of informed due to the delivery, who knows?

Feeling insulted is the natural reaction of SOME, not all who do not want to hear the truth. Personally, I have a different reaction when I want to avoid the truth about something....so when I see that I am doing it, I know to look closely for what I am avoiding. I would encourage Twenty-five, as I would others, to figure out what their own natural reaction is when they don't want to hear the truth because it can be very helpful.


It's not a matter of finding nicer posts, it's a matter of finding critical information that is delivered in a way that she can receive it and understand it. Twenty-five has important decisions to make that will affect a lot of people in some way or another. I think that the sooner she can get the information she needs in order to make those decisions, the better it will be for everyone involved.....including the children she mentioned.


ML, I think that our posts back and forth to each other are starting to border on threadjacking (funny, you were the one who taught me what that is ), so I'm going to bow out of this discussion now and do some of the things that I must get done today.

Take care

Yes, the children she mentioned. The ones whose welfare is being ignored by allowing a minister to sexually exploit their mothers through her silence. I bet those children's father don't believe it is in their welfare to be exploited by a church minister, ya know?

All of the critical information she needs is to be found right here on this thread, LB, even though she doesn't want to hear it. She has no problem understanding it at all. Just because she doesn't want to hear it, doesn't mean it's bad advice; sending her off on a wild goose chase into the "archives" will accomplish absolutely nothing. Rather, I think it might be a foolish distraction from doing the right thing.

Sorry, TheRoad, I didn't see your post.

It sounds like she IS concerned, very concerned.


Of course not, but first she must figure out the best course of action for her particular situation and the issues in it.


I don't think that at all, TheRoad. In cases that abuse of authority/power is an issue, more than the penis is used as a "weapon" so I think that it takes even more careful consideration than in other situations to determine a course of action that will be effective.....instead of resulting in enabling the behavior to be more well-hidden and causing more harm than it already has.

Take care, TheRoad

LB, do you understand that her CURRENT course of action *IS* enabling the sexual exploitation of female parishioners to continue? The affairs are NOW well hidden because of 25's enabling, so you really are not making any sense in saying that that MIGHT happen if exposed. IT IS HAPPENING. Only exposure will stop it.

We are now on potential affair #4 and you advise her to go on a wild goose chase in "archives" for a reason that is unfathomable to me. Please lets use some common sense here.

The solution is not more secrecy, but to expose to the pastor, and eventually the victims. Anything other than that would be irresponsible. She won't find more sound advice than that in a wild goose chase in the "archives."

The best course of action is for her to tell the pastor, period.

The women aren't victims. They are scumbags, too.

Twentyfive,

You're getting tough love here and it is being delivered in bucket fulls of truth, but there does need to be accountability for the other woman.

I know you may not like to hear it and that you feel that you have exposed appropriately, but the other man has every right to know that his wife and his children have been put in danger by your husband's actions and his wife's failure to control herself.

The children deserve to have a home where mom and dad work on their problems and right now the dad has no clue that there is a very serious problem and the marriage may ultimately be doomed.

If the limit of their interaction was flirting and texting, then the other woman's husband is very likely willing to forgive that BUT HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW.

I know you don't understand the philosophy of exposure and to you having God know may be sufficient, but you are fooling yourself into believing that this will keep your husband from behaving in this way again in the future.

He drapes himself in the words of the Bible and obviously knows them, but is using his position of power in a way that is completely against the very words he preaches. This is downright evil.

He owes it to the congregation and the spouses of all the women he's had emotional affairs with to come clean and ask for their forgiveness.

True Christians would forgive him if he's truly repentant.

My concern is that he feeds you the empty words about redemption and forgiveness from God and will return to his old ways once he's confident you've "calmed down enough".

Several people, all with very different deliveries, told her the same thing and she was still averse to the message. So, it is not the "delivery" that bothers her, but the substance. A substance she clearly does not want to hear. She did not want to be told that she is an enabler.

Wouldnt' you agree that ignoring the truth because you don't like someone's "delivery" is very dysfunctional? Why would you encourage someone in that childishness? Instead of helping her focus on her feelings, it seems you would want to help her focus on doing the right thing. Rather than giving this evasion tactic credence by telling her to waste her time looking for archived posts where the "delivery" is supposedly nicer,[you must know something I don't] wouldn't it be more effective to encourage her to ignore her feelings to do the right thing?

Where did I say they were "victims?"

Sorry. I mis-read your post.

I think I stayed up too late last night watching debate-related nonsense.

No problem. The victims here are the HUSBANDS, IMO.

I agree...somehow I read that as the OWs being the victims of a manipulator. :crosseyedcrazy:

K71,

IMHO I believe if the age differential is great and the older person is in a position of trust, then the younger person has been victimized to a greater degree. In the president Clinton/Monica romance I think Clinton was more at fault. He should have known better.

NJ

I respectfully disagree, NJ.

There are soooooooo many stories (thousands) over the eight years I've been here where the OW is in her 20s and the WH is 40+. And the WH IS in a position of trust (employer, counselor, coach, doctor, dentist, teacher, fireman, trainer, policeman, preacher, spiritual leader, mentor, etc. etc. etc.).

Are you saying all young OW are VICTIMS just because the WH is signficantly older and has a level of influence?

If so, I vehemently disagree with that assessment. They (OW) own 100% of their sinful decision to participate in adultery with someone who is married. And the WH owns 100% of his decision.

No one forced the OW. They are neither victims nor innocent. Far far from it.

Jo