I am having serious mixed feelings. I have been reading info from MB and another book by Harville Hendrix called Getting the Love You Want. I have started reading some of Patrick Carnes books as well. Everything has been been very insightful to me. My problem is that my WH has moved out but says he wants to work things out and still loves me but keeps hitting me with DJs and other LBs & keeps putting the blame on me telling me I need therapy (been there done that and also in and out of Al-Anon). He is also still chatting up other women met online saying he is only looking for a friend (I know better). He just hasn't found the one yet so I am still his main choice for SF.

I can list all the things I have been working on to improve upon myself and figure out who I am and how I came to be who I am. He also keeps saying I blame everyone but myself to which I say no. I know there were things I could have done differently but upon consideration I didn't follow through because of how his past reaction or actions were. To me actions speak louder than words. I asked him what he has been doing to make improvements and he has no response. He chats up other women from a dating service but says no PA yet. He tried to say he never met any of them which is a lie as I spoke to one of the OW who he did meet who is not interested in him. He insists on calling her and she feels sorry for him and tells him to talk to me nicely. He calls her his free therapist. What a joke. Me and this OW are pretty similar in personalities.

His demand is that I take care of his SF and he will then start to work on M. (been there done that too which did not work for me). He also states I have shown no affection to him or at least not in the way he wants it. I keep asking him to define his term "Affection" in specific detail not generalized. He thought filling out the EN quiz was a game which he very angrily completed thinking he would get what he wants. He is an active addict on two counts Alcohol and Sex. He says he is not a sex addict but he is living in denial. He may not be at the extreme end but he does have a problem with which I am not comfortable about and have explained it to him time and time again. So my dilemma is do I wait it out to see if he will come to realize his addiction is causing a major problem or just proceed to separate and divorce. Last week he said he wants to get this over with but I told him he still has to wait out the 1 yr separation unless he wants to cop to adultery which is a big NO. But then a few days later he calls up crying he wants things to work out. I tried to rationally talk with him about the issues but then he starts his demands and DJs and cussing so I hang up. He calls back apologizes but then the vicious cycle starts all over again. So I hang up again and refuse to answer the phone. (He was also drunk when he called so I asked him to talk with me while he was sober). The next day he called he was back to his demands of SF or its over. I kept saying that this was unacceptable to me as he is not willing to work on his own issues within the marriage or himself by fully cooperating and communicating. I have laid out ground rules which he agreed to but breaks every time. Everyone of my friends tell me to get out. I am trying but it is hard. I get frustrated. I let loose with LBs when I don't want to but can't seem to help myself. And if I try to be nice he interprets it the wrong way and thinks he's going to get his payoff. AAARRGG. I hate failure. This is my third relationship that has failed. The end result is all the same but the circumstances are different in how I got there. There was a sexual breakdown in all of them but for different reasons too. I know I am the only one that can make the final decision. Any advice. I'm tired of going around, around in a circle. I have been procastinating on typing up the separation papers as I know he will not agree to what will be in them and he won't talk with me about anything in a rational manner without demanding I take care of his needs to which I respond what about MINE. He didn't even bother to ask to see what I wrote in my EN quiz. Do I just get out or what???

An addict acting out will never be able to meet your needs. There is no working on a marriage with an addict acting out. The DJ's and AOs are addict speak.

There's a better chance a recovering addict will be able to work on a relationship with you, but even after 19 months of sobriety/recovery, my husband's addict voice slipped out.

No one can tell you whether to stay or go. Perhaps making a list of pro's and cons of waiting rather than moving ahead may help you.

No one can predict how he will react if you serve him papers. That may be enough for him to hit rock bottem, and then, it may not be enough. I didn't even need to go that route. It was a simple "porn or me" discussion.

What do you need to do to take care of yourself and heal yourself? Not the marriage, yourself. Neither one of you can heal the marriage until you heal yourselves first.

Caring Soul,

You're really up against some pretty stiff obstacles here. Your H has problems with a) alcohol; b) sexual addiction; c) selfishness and d) dishonesty. He has steadfastly refused to take any action to correct any of these four major obstacles to a happy marriage, and in fact demands that YOU acquiesce to HIS every "need" without even attempting to meet yours.

I believe in the sanctity of marriage and I know this is a pro-marriage site, but honestly, I don't see how you could possibly fix this by yourself, and there is no indication he intends to partner with you. Even when he SAYS he will ___fill in the blank____, he never follows through. The fact that you say he is your THIRD such disappointing relationship speaks volumes too. Is there anything more "salvageable" in this guy than the prior two? Have you figured out what it is that attracts you to men who treat you so poorly? You know you deserve better. Stop settling for such shabby treatment.

I don't know what your situation is apart from your present difficult relationship with this man, but I would suggest you do NOT allow him to return home until (and IF) he starts taking accountability for his serious problems. You must PROTECT yourself from him! He is a danger to your mental and emotional health.

TELL him he is not welcome until he proves to you that he can control his own demons, and then stick to your guns. Let him back as he is, and you will never have anything beyond what you've gotten already. Continue therapy, continue reading and exploring and growing as a woman, but keep this toxic man at arm's length till he de-fangs himself. YOU cannot overcome HIS addictions. And for now, at least, he doesn't seem to want to.

Take care of you, Caring Soul. And keep posting. I hope someone else will be able to help you more than I can.

RHW

Yes I am working on trying to heal myself, but I get sucked in at the same time. I hate myself for that. I haven't tried the pros and cons thing on paper just in my head. Maybe if I see it in black and white it would help. I have a semi plan made I was hoping to try to push the marriage until our DD was in school full time so it wouldn't be too much of a financial burden on me but have started to proceed with the separation but very slowly.

At least he moved out but not totally as he comes back from time to time when I'm at work just to shower and get a change of clothes. Said he won't totally move out until I get the separation papers to him. I am trying to save money by typing them up myself then have my attorney look them over before giving them to him but I have limited access to a computer and time as well to work on it.

I just don't know what "rock bottom" will be for him. He's sunk pretty far as it is. Thanks for your post.

Yeah I still trying to figure out my problem with getting hooked up with the wrong person. It has something to do with my childhood upbringing and parents dysfunctional marriage as I can recognize both of my parents in myself and my XF, XH and WH. (and not to mention being of the Catholic Faith also plays a large part of my personal complexities). I like to think I took the best of both my parents with me and left the worst but that's not true as I am finding out. I just need to find the right combo. I can learn from most of my mistakes. I did seem to make some improvements in all my relationships but only to find another different difficult issue to try and resolve. I believe God is guiding me in all things so I put my trust in him. Thanks for your input.

CaringSoul,

Separation seems like the best plan at the moment. But read up on Plan B on this site first. You sound like you've tried your best to be a good wife, and everything you've said and done has fallen on a deaf heart. He is an ADDICT, and as such, cannot hear you.

You'll need to be clear (with a Plan B letter--you can get help for it here)that this is not a plain-and-simple separation that will lead directly to divorce (unless that is what you want). You can state very clearly in your letter what it is that he must do in order for you to want to remain married to him. Then it is HIS choice.

I'm afraid he isn't man enough to do what he needs to do, but it is HIS choice, not yours. You can't MAKE him do anything. All you can do is let him know what YOU will and will NOT accept. Read up on boundaries. You need them for your own protection, and the protection of any marriage you might be able to forge with him later.

Good luck. You have my prayers.

Thanks RHW, I would like to try to work it out through separation but I tried that with my Xf & 1st XH it wasn't successful for either relationship. Separated for 2 yrs before I did final D with 1st XH. I don't think I will have any luck with this WH either. It is a shame as our DD gets the very short end of the stick. He says he loves her too but his actions do not show it. I have to keep telling him the court would love hear what his response is to things to get him to interact with her. I've already kind of laid out a plan b for him but he's not in agreement with it. SO I guess its onto plan D. Though being who I am I am still open to working it out but only on my terms not his which is what he does not like. I told him about choices too. I am not making his choices for him. I keep explaining to him I gave him options he made the choice not me. Just like I am making my own choices no one else but I do rely on research and reading up on the issues thereby I can say it was an informed choice not on the fly or emotional but really thought out.

My father sent me the book on Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. I haven't started to read it yet as there are others I want to read first but will eventually get to it.

Thanks for the prayers. I know God will work it out with me and through me.

CaringSoul,

You sound like you have been fighting long and hard to untangle the things that are not working in your life, and I admire you for that.

Not surprising that you've hung on so long and worked so hard on your marriage--I did the same thing. When I said I believed in the sanctity of marriage, I said it from my own Catholic upbringing, as well as my adult conviction. When my H of 37 years left me and had an affair, it challenged me to the core of my being, and to the core of my faith. I hung on, took a ton of emotional abuse during the A and for a time afterward, and am grateful to be enjoying recovery and a better connection with my FWH than we ever had before. Having to look only to God throughout the trials, I have been further blessed with a deeper faith. If my God could salvage me from that wreckage, I know He will never fail me in anything.

But our recovery came about ONLY because my H finally joined me in rebuilding us. He was able to shake free of his fog and do the work because he wasn't addicted to anything except his affair partner. Not to alcohol, not to sex. And until he hit that "mid-life crisis" stage, he did not behave selfishly. The bugger in our marriage was his dishonesty. Not telling me he was dissatisfied. Not sharing his fear and his pain about turning 60, of not having achieved all he'd hoped for in his career and in our marriage. He suffered it alone. Until he didn't. He just upped and left. Could this be true of your H as well?

Whatever your H's reasons for doing the things he's done, HE needs to examine himself. You cannot do it for him. I note he is 50...a dangerous age. Only you can know if his current behavior is the result of mid-life stresses or just more of who he's always been. If it's the former, I see hope. If the latter...well, I'd wonder.

Nothing is beyond redemption, but you are the one looking for help here, not him. So until he wants to reclaim and redeem himself, you need to take care of you. You will survive, no matter what he does. If he chooses not to get on board, it will be his loss.

RHW

His actions don't show it, because he isn't capable of loving her, or even himself right now.

Have you contacted any lawyers-to see what you can do about custody? Unfortunately, in my state, my husband's having an active sex addiction wouldn't impact custody/visitation. We both would have gotten equal say in raising our family. Do you have proof of his behaviors?

Sounds like your H is not open to any self examination, or even to admitting he has any part in your current difficulties together. If that's true, I'd agree it's time to "fish or cut bait."

I hear your concern for your young daughter. You've no doubt already asked yourself what good would come to her from daily contact with a father who is alcoholic and treats her mother so shabbily. You don't want to create another dysfunctional childhood. Divorce is hard on children, but so is living with a parent who runs amok causing heartache and pain. Not an easy choice, but this seems to be one he's already made--"My way or the highway." His way is pure dysfunction. What do you really have to lose if he doesn't man up?

RHW,

My husband, its seems from what I am finding out, has always been like he is, sometimes he makes half hearted attempts to fly right but if it is too much of an effort he gives up and reverts to type. After reflecting quite a bit on everything, how he handles everything in life from personal to business matters he tends not to do preventative maintenance on anything including his health.

Inrecoverynow,

I have spoken to him regarding custody and I believe he will give me sole custody as long as I allow visitation. I am going to try for no overnight visits and if their is evening visitation that is supervised due to his drinking and porn. In my state the court tends to go towards joint custody but I may have a case for what I want. He agrees with me that he is not equipped to raise a small child. But then again he could get spiteful as he is not getting what he wants. He is more concerned about me not getting anything from his business or the house than he is for the upbringing of his child. I keep hammering home what is in the best interest of the child as this is what the court looks at. I have some proof and am now mad at myself for destroying some other proof last year. He made a CD and labeled it "my training video" it was disgusting. But I may be able to get it back if I take the computer to someone to dig it out. Mostly what I have is my on again off again journal which details how he's treated me and how often he buys his alcohol. Even if the court grants him joint custody I don't think he will take advantage of it as where he is staying isn't a good place for our daughter to stay plus it would put a hamper on his activities.

Thank you both for your support and thoughts as I struggle with my marriage. I know I can survive this but am sorry that our daughter has to go through it with me. But God will see us through.

You've got to do what you've got to do to protect yourself and your young child. If H chooses not to get his act together, take any preventive measures, etc., then that's what he chooses.

YOU have the right to choose what YOU think is best too. Sounds like you're doing it. Bravo.

I've got this suspicion that, as soon as you've gotten yourself free of his stuff, he'll start making strong overtures and offers to "change." You're right to be wary.

Godspeed, CaringSoul.

RHW