Yep, definitely a stab at friendly co-parenting, as in let's forget the A, let's forget the Plan B, blah, blah, blah.

He is quite the piece of work, isn't he?

MARRIAGE..doesn't seem to be that SPECIAL to HIM. It seems like.. in HIS MIND... you used to be his GIRLFRIEND and you broke up....

I'm sorry to say that you are right. He just doesn't get it.

He did send a reply that I just read.

"The birthday plan is fine.

About the past in the past,,,,,,My own feelings on that are that we did not communicate very well in the past. I feel we both had very little trust or respect for one another, or at least I feel we did not show it.
And,,you know that I am the worst with emails - both sending and receiving - they leave way too much room for interpretation"



Well, I don't even know if I want to go into my thoughts on that email. Pre-Affair, I trusted him completely. I respected him totally. I don't know if I showed it enough in my actions. Apparently not if he doesn't feel like I trusted or respected him.

However,,,,,,,,,,it seems to me that it is more a statement about the fact that he didn't trust or respect me. I think we can all agree on that as being a fact.

I think he never expected or understood complete trust & respect. His past history and low self esteem contributed that issue a lot.

Ah well, none of it really matters now anyway. For that is "past in the past" for me.

I think about it since he brought it up, but it's not a point I'm dwelling on or worrying about. I've already dealt with most of that on my own personal level. Maybe he's just on the edge of starting to recognize it for himself - I can only hope he chooses to deal with it on his own personal level.

I had another email that was much better. V is on the road, but did email me just to say that he was thinking about me. It was sweet.

I think it's a Self Care night,,,,,,,,,a nice bubble bath may be in order.

It does not matter because it still is NO EXCUSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. He is NOT REPENTANT about what he did. He is not SORRY or ASHAMED about what he has done to you and his FAMILY!!

This is "HORRIBLE"...in my view...for him to go into THIS without expressing his SORROW or REGRET and not taking any PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITITY for this TRAGEDY..of you guys having to split up holidays, etc., etc....


YUCK....

Hi Bugs,


I get a lot of this from WS, too...don't 'buy into it', Bugs....it's still only meant to SERVE Drac's needs without consideration to those of his family...yours and kids!


Yeah, Bugs... I can see why you would be sorry! those questions may ENCOURAGE Drac to continue to JUSTIFY his actions, and it's not what you want.... better not to ask them in the future.

I know that whenever I need to send WS info. re boys, I 'sit' on them at least half a day to gain some 'objectivity'....to be sure that I only communicate the STRICT minimum...and the emails eventually get reduced to one-two liners.

I suspect it must be painful to see the lack of EFFORT on Drac's part...especially with OP now out of the picture! ..and I am sorry for that, Bugs...although this may be helpful in clearing up some DOUBTS you may have had before...

BUGS

Bugs:

Its been awhile, But I've been reading.

I wanted to drop a perspective on Drac's passage and some thoghts about a response:


"We did not communicate well in the past"

Drac, of course not. I've learned alot about me and the way I handled things since that day that you met Amy. The reflection this caused in me as to how I got to this point in my marriage has been a profound one. I feel that I will be communicating with whoever I meet in the future in profoundly better ways.

"I feel we both had very little trust or respect"

Drac, I trusted you, and believed in you. In some ways, which I have learned since you left, I did not express that as well as a should have. I wanted our relationship to work, and our wonderful daughter and your terrific son brought so much more to the table then I ever knew to expect. I'm a strong person, but with the birth of Ladybug, many of those strengh that I thought I had were tested. I struggled to find my way thorugh that time, and really did not credit you with the strenghs that you had learned over the years with your son. Many things flowed from that disconnect resulting in the feelings of trust and respect. I better appreciate the contributions that both parents can make. And how those contributions are complimentary, and not contradictory.

"or at least I feel we did not show it."

No, we didn't. We still really do not know how. I have learned much. I will practice these new methods I have learned. I recognize many things that I was doing, that I thought were "right" and just did not realize the effect that they would have on you. I have learned to recognize these patterns. I have learned new ways to act and react.

"they leave way too much room for interpretation"

Yes, they do, but it is the only way, that we can continue to exchange information. It has to be this way due to your choices. You chose Amy. You chose divorce. You chose this lifestyle. Is it impacting the children? Yes. You want me to be available and friendly in our interactions, whether it is about the kids or something else. Due to your choices, I have choices as well. One of the choices I have made is that I am willing to exchange information regarding Ladybug and DSS as needed. I am not available to be a friendly co-parent. I will not be interested in drawing outside of those lines. I was and could have been, but you have made it clear what role you want me to have in your life.

In my letter to you in July 2007 (plan B letter) I outlined my love for you and a road map to possible reconciliation. That is still possible. If not, then I accept my role as the mother of Ladybug and ex-stepmom of DSS. You do not have to like these conditions. But those are choices that I have made to protect myself. You have and continue to make yours. Please respect mine.

The past is past indeed. I thought that maybe after some of this was cleaned up, that the man I once knew could return and with the new knowledge that I have learned, that we could have created a new and better relationship. Your right, what's past is past. It could have been so much better. My future will be.

And, just to be clear. I DO respect your choices. I DO NOT agree with some of them, just like you DO NOT like some of mine. But the time for negotiation and resolution of those choices passed when we divorced. This is world we live in NOW.

LG

LG,

...just needed you to know that, although your last post is for Bugs' benefit, it is a great example of what 'communication' is all about to many of us 'lurkers', and is a measure of how far you have come in your own personal journey.

Thanks.


...this sounds like Bugs has closed the door, and I am not sure she has....have you Bugs? ...and not sure Drac is READY to HEAR anything yet!

LG...although I totally agree that changes need to be made by both spouses, betrayed and wayward, to me, your "letter" sounded more like all the problems of bug's preA marriage were due to her, except for the A.

And this...



just sounds like all Drac has to do is show up and Bugs will do the rest. JMO.

Although I know that is not true...I would wonder if that is how Drac would read it.

Hey LG!

That's some really good stuff. I'm not sending it, but am keeping it for reference. Perhaps in the near future I'll use it. I did respond in a similiar fashion, but it was much more brief. I had typed out my own version of what you posted yesterday with the thought of perhaps giving it to him if it seemed the right opportunity.

Yesterday I stopped by the main office for some supplies. They were hosting a "Customer Service Appreciation" breakfast. I stopped in and saw LOTS of folks I don't always get to see. It was fun,,,,,,,,,,,and I was looking especially FABULOUS if I do say so myself. New, fitted, shorter dress with Goddess high heels! I received several compliments and was feeling pretty good about myself by the time I left there.

I went over to my building and was in my office working. Outside of my office is an open conference/meeting room area that I have to walk through to get to the kitchen. The building I am in is a 'training' center. There were a few guys in there that morning.

I walked out later for a soda & as I rounded the corner I caught out of the corner of my eye that someone else was sitting there. I turned and see it is Drac. I about stumbled over my own feet. I said hello and kept walking. I didn't know what else to do and they were in the middle of training so it would have been disruptive to say more. Thank goodness. I got my soda and walked back through without looking or speaking again.

He apparently spent some time talking with one of the guys and then left. My office door was closed so I did not see him again. Although it did trigger me a bit, it wasn't totally disruptive to my day.

Last night I was home and just going to start getting ready to go out to dinner. I had been on the phone w/V when Drac called & left a vm. I checked it after my call - Drac said he'd "totally spaced" and forgot to tell me that DSS was in the Homecoming parade that was getting ready to start in about an hour!! They were on their way to drop DSS off at the school!!??!!

UGH!

So I called him back to get the details when/where. He had Ladybug answer the phone - apparently he was on his other phone as I heard him say, "I gotta go, Bugs is on the other line, thanks, Hon" Don't know who/what that was about but at least he got off to talk to me. He gave me the "I'm sorry I totally forgot about this". I just asked "what's the story, what's the deal?". He started to explain to me what a Homecoming parade is and how he really had no idea how it works, but it apparently is a big deal in his town. DUH!! I asked for specific time & place. He didn't know the time other than what time he was to drop off DSS. He told me the parade route, and where he & Ladybug were sitting "if you can make it, that's where we are".

So, I called V and asked him if it would be ok to meet me there. He agreed right away. I flew outta the house and raced over there. Had to take back streets and was able to park and see the tail end of the parade. I didn't go by where Drac & Ladybug said they were sitting. The parade had already had passed by there anyway.

V didn't make it so we agreed to meet at a restaurant close by. As I was driving, I see Drac pass me going the other way. I wasn't sure it was him, but then I see that he has circled around the block (FAST), and we met at a 4 way stop. It was his turn to go,,,and he took his time. I was on the phone, so I acted as if I didn't see it was him. We went the same route for a while with me behind him, but then I turned off to go meet V.

Had a nice dinner and came home for some nice conversation. I'm afraid V is still a bit more into this being more than casual dating than I am, so we talked about it so that he is clear where I stand.

I called Ladybug on my way home from dinner, as she had not called & it was getting late. Talked to DSS who was really pumped up after the parade. It was great to hear him so excited about something!! I made sure that he knew I'd made it over to the parade to see him, even though he didn't see me. In fact, that was the only reason I hustled over there - so that DSS would know I came to see him.

When getting ready to go to bed, I see an email from Drac. Asking about a note in her bag re:parent/teacher conference and 'sharing' Ladybugs thoughts about her teacher. She doesn't like her teacher because she is extremely strict. He ended with "Just wanted to let you know".

Funny, he sent the email at the same time Ladybug should have called me, but he didn't make sure that she called. He 'thought I should know' the minor stuff about DD & her teacher, but he waits until he is on his way to the parade to let me know about it? WTF?

I see no remorse on his end except for his 'regret' that things are not easy for him, and that seems to be his motivation for everything he does.

Sorry, not my job to make it easy for him. I have better things to do with my time.

Speaking of which, I'd better get to work!! Sorry for the long, boring details, but I think it helps to show that IMVHO Drac just isn't anywhere close to being able to hear any of what you posted LG. If I thought he was, I'd have it hand delivered to him within an hour.

Unless that changes, I just keep right on keeping on with my Bugs Life.

Hi Bugs,


I agree....don't think Drac is ready to 'hear it' yet...

...and on the contrary, thank you for all the details and in so doing giving us a 'bird's eye view' of your life and allowing us to be a part of it.


...yeah, right...uhmmmm...me, too

Hey Bugs. Glad to hear that you aren't letting it get you down too much.

My cousin commented to me that "there is no love like a new love." He says too many men keep chasing the new love, and it sounds like Drac falls into that category. Trouble is, the new love turns old at some point and the cycle starts again. UGH.

You are doing great girlfriend.

Yes, I think your personal recovery is going pretty well.

If you continue on your current path, however, I see a big anger phase coming on. Maybe that's okay and will probably have to happen at some point, but if you give in to it now, I think it may doom any chance at recovery you have left. Again, maybe that's not important to you.

My recommendation is that you go dark again. Maybe you have to explain it to Drac the way LG spelled it out (I warmed up to you again because I thought recovery might be in the offing, but you didn't seem to want it; recovery is still possible, but absent that I'm not interested in being a friendly co-parent, so we're dark again).

There are a lot of reasons to be dark. Protect him from your anger. Protect yourself from his stupid waywardness. Cut him off from Bugs-fixes--and yes, I think these are important to him now. You gave him a glimpse of how things could be. Now shut it down.

Plus, you don't want to let Drac spill over into your dating life. I'm happy that it's going well. And a bit jealous.

(((Bugs)))

Thanks Ladies for the kind words.

I responded briefly mid morning to Drac's email. Simply stated that the conference note was a reminder for me. I did ask if he had gotten the order form for DD's picture day which is tomorrow. Not that I care about him getting pictures,,,I just wanted to be sure the he dresses her appropriately & does her hair.

His response (i can even 'hear' the sweet/joking tone of his voice in this email)



My immediate response??

WHY oh WHY does he do things like act like Mr. Friendly guy with the joking & sharing. AND telling me WHO he is going out with?? Like I'm supposed to care or believe he's going out with a co-worker??? He's certainly not letting me know about every Sat he has the kids & dumping them at a sitter - why bother telling me this today? Something is up and I'm a bit nervous about it,,,,,,,,,,,,,am waiting for a shoe to drop I guess.

Although, pretty much every other time he has started being this kind of friendly, I lunged at the gerbil. I responded with coming out into the light and opening myself up.

Is this some kind of bait? If so, I'm not taking it. We've all seen what happens then, haven't we.

Or perhaps I'm just 'reading' too much into it all (again). It's probably just he doesn't want to have DSS tonight. Nothing more or less than the usual selfish acts of Drac.

Bugsy.. dearheart..

There's only one reason he sends you these kinds of messages..

It's simple my dear.. you set your boundaries and enforce them.

Stop responding to this crap.. go dark again.

If something so simple as this gets under your skin.. you need to protect yourself from him again.

You're not his 'for free babysitter for DSS' either.. the man needs to be responsible for himself and his son.

Stop enabling him to hurt you.



Yeah I know... hello kettle.. I'm pot.

Hey SD!

Looks like we were posting at the same time.

I've really shut down the fixes for Drac. Other than seeing him at last Saturday's game (where I pretty much ignored him) and his suprising me at my office, we haven't seen each other. I've most certainly cut back to Plan B communication tactics with the exception of having to call due to the timeframe of last night's parade. Even then, I kept the conversation short & direct to the point.

I wonder about the anger phase you mention. I would like to think I'm past that. I have visited it off & on for so long, it just doesn't feel like there's any of it left, at least in regards to recovery. The rare times I feel a flare of anger these days is in direct correlation to his treatment of the kids.

I'm keeping my responses to a minimum. We will see if his friendly attitude persists this time - especially since I refuse to lunge at that gerbil. If it continues, then the LG response may be appropriate.

No, I definitely do not want Drac 'spilling over' into my dating life. Don't be too jealous,,,,,,,,,,dating has it's whole host of challenges and I sometimes question my ability/readiness to deal with them!

It's good to see you back today - you've already had a lot of very good posts to everyone!! If you are up to it, give us an update about you. If you're not up to it, we understand & are just happy to have your input!

a sure sign of lying?

providing too many unnecessary details designed to reassure.

Hey Mr. Pot!!

Honestly while I posted a great deal about it, I'm not flustered like I used to me.

It's a less emotional "WTF?" kind of response.

I should point out (although I am the last one to defend Drac), that this weekend is MY weekend. He's been keeping DSS on Friday nights & taking him to the football bus because it's early in the morning & they are 5 minutes from school and I am 20 minutes away.

BTW - I haven't even responded to his email !

I'll get around to it later,,,,,,,,,,,with a real long response such as "OK"

Exactly my thoughts!

But to what end? Reassure me of what? and why?

That's what I don't get

backup plan


'cause things are "easier" for Drac when Bugs is nice.

To buy your cooperation.

Because you are more likely to "help" with his obligations if its not to accomodate his dating.

Cuz he know this won't fly:
"hey bugs, I have a hot date Friday nite, can you take
whats-his-name to football?"