It's been 2 years and 5 months, since EA ended and NC. I'm the FWW.

BH still does not know if he wants to be married, and really the only reason we are is that we have 2 kids and I beg and plead and do SF he wants. I am threatened with the big D all the time.

I am NOT perfect, but I AM perfectly transparent, he knows where I am and what I do and all my passwords. He of course says he has no idea if I am really at work, etc.

I dont' know what to do. I DO NOT want to be divorced. I DO NOT want my kids to be from a broken home. I love him.

He wont' say I love you. We do SF, though it's never enough for him- but it's been 4 times just this week so far!!

Seriously, the threats of kicking me out of the house, etc- it's wearing. I'm emotionally stressed, with work and kids...

I guess the question is, how can I make this better to the best of my ability? I can't erase the past. I NEVER make my A his fault. I have apologized and apologized and apologized. There are many things that were wrong before the EA that now I feel like I have no expectations of getting anything I need in a marriage now with him.

Counseling is completely out of the question, as is any reading of books, etc.

Help.......

How,
Welcome to marriage builders. I'm a FWW as well, I am very familiar with what you're describing here. But, I have to ask you, why is counseling out of the question? Is that coming from you or your husband? My BH was opposed to counseling, but over time I convinced him to talk to the Harleys. I have to say, Steve Harley made a world of difference to us. He is a marriage coach as opposed to a marriage counselor. His approach is that we are team mates. He is never judgemental and he is very effective at getting his point across. That is the only advice I can give you, call them! SH will probably cause you to re-open the wound again, but this time, clean it out thoroughly so it can't become infected again. Sorry for the metaphor, but it's the truth.

It sounds like you are doing everything right, but the two of you are not working as a team. I think SH can get you to work together again, I really do.

MrsZ

So you can't get your BH to go to counceling. You can call the Harley's and get help for yourself.

As a BS, I'm usually pretty hard on waywards unless they seem truly remorseful.

Your husband sounds like a ****EDIT****.

It sounds like he's become accustomed to using your EA for a free 'abuse my spouse card'.

I'd put my foot down at this point.

Be prepared for the big D but hope it wakes him up.

Otherwise you may spend your life ****EDIT****.

HTH,

I know you say he's resistant to outside support, but maybe you could convince him to come here and post, or at least read.

He may see there are other BS here struggling with the same recovery issues he's having and feeling. And that he's not alone in what he feels.

Its worth a try.
Jo

Howtoheal,

You sound like a very remorseful FWW who have repented. I agree with iam, it indeed sounds if your H is using your past EA as a free 'abuse my spouse card' and you should not allow him to continue with this any longer. He has to make a choice. I think you must go to your H, sit down with him and have a serious conversation with him. Tell him something amongst the following lines (just a suggestion, you can adjust it):

“Dear H, you know how remorseful I am about my past EA. You know I take full responsibility for my wrong choices of the past. I’ve hurt you very much and I’ve apologized to you many times in the past. During the past 2 years I’ve done everything I could to help try you and this marriage heal, I even tolerated your resentful/angry behavior towards me until now, but it did/does not help. I also wanted/want us to go for counseling, but you’re not willing to do that. Your anger and resentment towards me is understandable but you behavior is NOT…I’ve tolerated it for too long… Therefore, if you feel my past EA is too difficult for you to overcome and that you will never be able to forgive me and if you’re going to continue acting towards me the way you do, then maybe it’s time for you to follow through with a divorce in stead of threatening me with it and abuse me with your behavior all the time. You know I do NOT want a divorce. You know I do NOT want the children to be from a broken home. You know I love you, but if you feel a divorce is the only option/solution for you and if you will not be able to change your behavior towards me so that we can work together to have a happy marriage again, then you must rather follow through with a divorce. I love you, but I’m not willing to serve a “life-sentence in prison” because of my past EA by tolerating this type of behavior from you any longer. It’s also unhealthy for the children. If you are still willing to give me another chance after my infidelity towards you and if you still want this marriage, then I suggest we are going for counseling to help us both and this marriage heal.”

Make your boundaries clear to you H, also the actions you will take if he doesn’t respect it. If after the conversation your H says he still wants to stay in the marriage, but then refuse to go for counseling and continue with his behavior towards you, then you might reach a point where you have to drastically enforce your boundaries even if it means separating from him or tell him to follow through with divorce (in case he continues threatening you with a divorce). This might wake him up. You don’t want your children to get exposed to this type of behavior and unhealthy interaction between their parents indefinitely.

I've been here on MB a long long time, under a different name...

BH absolutely will not discuss this with people "outside", in fact he is now insisting I drop a great friend because I mentioned him possibly divorcing me.

Suzet, what you say is perfect, except I would then instantly need to move out and get a divorce, as he says he does not love me and would divorce in a heartbeat and doesnt' really care about what it would do to the kids....

I dont' really know why he does not just do it. you'd think it's because he really doesnt' want to, but if that's the case why are things just so bad and awful all the time?

The only way to fix this is to divorce, I think, but I always have hope it will get better,and I have a hard time making it better for me and him at the expense of my children.

Well solving this problem by reliance on a message board is beyond short sighted.

Where are YOUR boundaries?

what he says and what he will do are likely two different things.

Doing NOTHING, you are assured of a bad outcome.

Is this emotional abuse? The constant threats of D if you don't cater to his every need, the cutting you off from any source of supportive friendship?

If it's abuse, then MB techniques aren't designed for that. Can *you* seek help from an IC or a women's shelter? It might help to speak to a counselor, as a reality check on whether his demands are reasonable or abusive.


What does he say when you ask him why he doesn't just do it?


It isn't good for the kids to be brought up in an abusive environment, or to see the model of the wife has to cater to everything the H wants.

Does/Has your H posted here?

If your H really wanted you gone, you'd be gone. Sounds like he wants to punish you. If that's the case, you need to tell him to either knock it off and contribute to rebuilding the M or leave.

Are you SURE your A was just an EA or did you actually go PA and are not admitting it?

Men respond to PAs in the nature you are describing over an EA which would more than likely be a few smart remarks and the fuming would be over with.

Well, I wouldn't want to be with a FWW that begs and pleads and does whatever I want. Who wants someone that is dependant on them. and brings little value. No one.

He sees your affair as you being weak and you begging and pleading are proving it to him over and over.

He likely wants a partner. A strong partner that brings something of value to the relationship and to him.

He is testing you and you are failing the test every single time.

This was my post to you 6 MONTHS ago. What have YOU done to change your lot in life?

Do not aid your BH in his acts of self-disgust...ask him directly if he is so disgusted with himself that he is choosing to not recover your marriage?

Your description of his divorce threats are confusing. You can choose to separate without the intent to divorce. Your choice to stay present for his abuse baffles me. Do you leave at any time he is SDing?

Stop wanting to know why he acts as he does...focus on his actions and what he does and doesn't do. Then you choose your stuff...RESPECT him as choosing his life. He is. He has chosen to be married to you for nearly three years since discovering you wiped him out of the marriage. To punish? I doubt it...when we actually punish others, we punish ourselves. I believe he's more stuck in "how could she have done that to me" land...which is an easy stick, because it seems to give us the idea we can undo it, even as we know we can't.

Your whys will end your marriage...focus on your what is and is not real right now. Do you think your focus on whys had any part in your choice to have an A in the first place?

LA

I would see an attorney and get a legal separation. THAT is the only thing that is going to make him treat you better.

I think he's stuck in the "how could she have done that to me" land as well but what has been said in her original thread sounds like punishment to me. Two and a half years later, he's still calling her a wh%re and telling her she deserves all his ill treatment towards her and he will treat her like this so long as he feels like it.

The punishment H gets is that he's never happy in his marriage so it does hurt him as well.

BR,

I'm with you. My belief is whenever someone is calling you names, they are doing so to themselves...equally terrible. Doesn't excuse for one nanosecond...explains the permission. He may be calling himself a doormat, a louse, an idiot.

What I don't get is where HTH's progressive boundary enforcements are in regards to name-calling...for what we allow others to do us, we are also allowing ourselves to do to them...be it in our head or not...and we do to ourselves, too.

NEver goes one way. So maybe the question to address is since HTH feels punished, what is she going to do about that?

If she sees her BH as entitled to punish (be it on DDay, two weeks later or two years later), then does it sync with her choice to believe she deserves punishment?

HTH - have you rebuilt trust in yourself through your choice to be transparent?

LA

medc- what have I done? Well, had a baby, got a great new job- but that's about it. Honestly if it weren't for the kids and just having hope that things might magically get better :RollieEyes: we'd be divorced.

Pariah- no, it never went PA, I never met OP. There was phone sex which has been admitted to. Yes, that is as bad. However, all this was admitted to to BH and then with BH in front of an ecclesiastical leader. He is one to always hold grudges- he does not speak to his sister or his older children, as they have each done somehting that he does not like.

Yes, definitely stuck in "How could she have done this to me" land. And the "What kind of man am I if I let her stay." I point out to him that honoring our vows is honorable and he is not an idiot to stay, I am the only idiot in our marriage. I always tell him that I am willing to take as long as he needs. But honestly I do feel that I deserve it. I hurt him terribly and he just cannot forgive. So the question is, can he never forgive? He doesnt' think he can, and some people just can't.And even if he can forgive that does not mean he still wants to stay married.

TJD, I really don't get what you mean. I bring value, I am the main provider of the family, I'm a good mother (remember I am a F-WW), I have repented and tried to make restitution as far as I can. I really resent you saying I am a failure. I have kept this marriage going even when he does not want it to for my children. You are making me mad and making me cry at work...

So really the answer is to divorce??? Medc, really???? How can I ever justify that to my little little children????

HTH,

If you give yourself permission to call yourself an idiot, then can you see that permits him to, also?

How's your self-forgiveness? Is it dependent on his forgiveness?

He doesn't talk anymore to those who wound him...sounds to me like God's reached for him about forgiveness many times. Maybe it's time you got out of the way so he can learn...for what he does not forgive will not be forgiven him.

Can you see as an act of love separating, filing for legal separation? Respect his choice to not forgive, to not personally or maritally recover, 'k? And if he is self-loathing, get out of the way of that...for if he is, he is also seeing you as loathing him, too.

You've learned a lot about yourself...what you may be resisting learning right now is that your A did cost you your marriage...and because he stayed, chose to not divorce, he didn't choose the marriage, either. When a BS chooses the marriage, they work ferociously on personal recovery and their half of marital recovery. The FWS experiences the grace of being forgiven so much more than they thought possible, deepens their love for their BS, their respect, fuels their effort to protect their marriage.

Not what you're experiencing. May be that you've continued to participate in fantasy, after ending your A...because you believe redemption lies within punishment, entitlement and lack of respect. It doesn't. That's how a wayward state of mind works, though.

LA