Sorry folks - long time, no update. My IC suggested I cut back on my Marriage Builders fix for a week or so as I go into plan B.

Anyways, on the 24th we had our kid exchange for the weekend. We were civil to each other - talked about the economy, she agreed to come to my place on Sunday the 26th to pick up the kids. WW also agreed to bring some of my things as well.

Since I was still in plan A, I made the apartment spotless, cooked our favorite family meal (OVEN STUFFER ROASTER!), had the kids bathed and ready for bed once they got home. Also, I heard the truck pull in as we were playing hide and seek. She comes in and get her to join in the game too.

Instead of the stuff I needed, she brought a bunch of old clothes I never wear and my college textbooks!

I bit my tounge and didn't get mad! I ask her if she wants some dinner, but she says she needs to get back home. We are talking at the car and she starts to go into how she won't have a place if she loses the house etc. I don't answer her - if I did, it would have been either a DJ or a LB. She gives me the "poor SAHM has to go back to work now that evil husband is divorcing her" routine. WW seems to forget that she was the one who is having the affair with someone who is not a functioning member of society.

I just say good bye and head back into my apartment.

How is plan B going?

If you can legally move back in then do so!!!! If OM does anything to you he goes to jail and then its solved. Also I would check with your lawyer if you can then kick him out!!

Thank for the post. I have really wondered what was happening. I'm puzzled why IC asked you to keep away from here.

By the way, there are IC's out there that could care less about the marriage. Their aim is to make customer feel good more than to repair relationships.

Yes, a quick divorce may well be less pain but not necessarily more worthwhile. Be wary.

More than anything the IC told me to stay away so I wouldn't dwell on things. Plus, not much has been happening other than pulling together some loose ends as I go into a dark plan B. I hear what you say about a quick divorce. The big D is NOT what I want. Sometimes it seems I am the only one who has faith in the marriage. Most everyone I talk to tells me to move on but they have never been through infidelity. Everytime I look at my children, I know I have to fight and keep the faith. They are the ones that are going to be hurt the most with the fallout and I could never live with myself if I didn't give WW a little more time.

I've really been enjoying myself for the last week or so - I joined the local Y to work out and get back into shape. Plus it gives me something different to do with the kids. I had a great father - son moment during the Penn State - Ohio State football game too. For the first time, DS sat through a whole game with me (he's only 6). Afterwards he asked when we are going back tto Penn State for a game. Plus, my Phillies won the WORLD SERIES!!!

Since WW and I both went to Penn State (we've known each other since grade school), anything involving Penn State has been trigger inducing. We fell in love at Penn State. I am a die hard PSU football fan and the last game against OSU was the first game I watched this season without any triggers.

I imagine not much has changed, or you would have told us about it. Remember that people care about you, and that you won't be in limbo for ever.

Let us know how you are, when you get a chance.

SS

Is the loser still in your house?
Why aren't you?
What's the status of his court appearances?

Why do you let her walk all over you?
Why won't you protect your children?

Do have any clue the statistics about abuse of children by boyfriends?

I can't stand this anymore.

Yes the loser is still in my house. My attorney has advised me NOT to move back in at this point - it could be considered harrassment. The laws in my state are very, very biased towards the mother.

However, I have an appointment with Child Protective Services on Friday to discuss the situation.

In terms of custody, I had a little bit of luck shine down on me. We both filed for joint custody with primary residency. She filed first so normally she is the petitioner and I am the respondent. However, I wasn't served with my papers until today. She was served with mine last week. Thus, I am the petitioner and she is the respondent which gives me a slight advantage.

The OM plead not guilty (not a surprise) the trial is scheduled for 11/17.

This morning, I received a call from WW. She called me at work with her new work phone so I didn't recognize the number. She told me "You win - there is no way I can keep the house". We need to list it. Because of this, I had to stay on the phone with her since it is business..
Well, there is a way to keep the house...

She then went into a long rant on how she is the victim in all this and how I have acted like an A%$ through all this.

I calmly asked to tell me how I've acted like an a%$ and she couldn't answer!

She then said that she has finally found true love with the OM and I just need to get over it. Also she said the charges against the OM are bogus - his father has alzheimers and doesn't understand what happened.

Man o man the fog is thick with her...

As part of my recovery, there have been a few things I have been working on. Because of the sudden shock of having my life as I know it turned upside down, I've come to realize how much of a giver I was to the marriage and how I have sacrificed many of my interests over the last few years for the horse farm. I'm sure this contributed to the state of our marriage - I am not a natural horse person and it has always been a point of conflict between the WW and I.

The reason why I think this contributed is in the couple of weeks before ILUBINILWU speech, she started to encourage me to do things like ride my bike, take the kids to a movie etc. I realize it was really to get me out of the house but deep down she may have realized how much I sacrificed as well.

I've been attending a Divorce Cares support group - last night we had the chapter on forgiveness. It gave me food for thought on what I will need to do within myself whether we decide to recover or end up in plan D.

Through my DC group, I was linked to the local BAN support group as well. There were six of us in the meeting I went to and it was nice to talk about some the thoughts I'm going through with folks who have walked the same road as me.

Anyways, since I have time to myself now, I've joined the local YMCA. I've started swimming again as well as a spinning class twice a week. She and I were both on the swim team in high school but we haven't swam a lap in 16 years. After my first workout, it was GREAT to feel the total body exercise high I used to get back in high school after a workout.

Also, being such a huge Penn State fan, I've booked a flight to the BCS championship game in Miami in January. While I won't be going to the game, it will still be a blast hanging out in the bowl city and rooting on the Nittany Lions. If PSU doesn't make it, I still have a 4 day vacation in the sun!

I'm so glad that you did not let her comment of you "being such an A$$" ride. I suspect that assertion is a turn on for her. She certainly kowtowed to OM on D-day.

Her "getting her own way" in the horse farm business also seems to smack of riding roughshod. Matched with her "independent behaviour" and and headstrong ways, are you sure that she is not going to be too much work even if she does repent of her wandering ways...

Changing the subject....may I share that the articles at this site are really fabulous. I'm NOT going to suggest that you read through them as you already have enough reading matter on your plate. The articles on affair proofing and telling the spouse "we have a problem" are particularly relevant as to how an affair develops. Yes, postmortems do help us to become more effective.

Hey enough chat for now, catch you later.

I'm glad you have CPS involved.

I'd sic them on him in a heartbeat.

It sounds like you are mostly OK - considering.

I'm glad you are keeping yourself busy.

We hope and pray that she will "get it" soon.

I wouldn't mind if OM "got it" either.

SS

How are you Shockedbetrayed?

Did you get CPS on the felon?

iam,

Thanks for the follow up and concern on how I'm doing. I picked up DS and DD last Friday and made the 6.5 hour drive to Pittsburgh to visit my old college roomate and few old college buddies. We had a GREAT time. Unfortunatly, my Nittany Lions lost but I was glad I didn't make my reservations for the BCS game yet!

On Sunday my roomate and I took the kids to the Pittsburgh Children's museum and we had a blast. It was hard too seeing all the intact families there. Recreation is one of my biggest needs and I LOVED going on family outings with the four of us. However, I got through it and realized before the separation I probably wouldn't have been able to get away for a weekend like this because of commitments to the horse farm. It is neat to be able to do different things.

My roomate and I were joking about how far we've come since college- we both graduated from school in 97 and he is currently living with his parents and I'm in a bachelor pad with patio furniture for a kitchen table! My buddy just got transfered from Chicago and his W is back in Chi Town while the house gets sold. I told him about HNHN and the 15 hour rule while they are appart.

I've also found a great BAN support group and had a meeting on Thursday night. It was interesting listening to everyone's sitch and how similar each one is when you filter out the details. It is a great group of folks and it just amazes me how destructive infidelity really is.

On the legal front, my Attorney advised against calling CPS until the trial is over. It is on the 17th so we shall know soon enough. If he's guilty, it will be literally open season on WW and OM on the child custody front.

It's been a "fun" week dealing with WW. On Sunday while at the 'Burgh she called and it was a LB, DJ, and AO fest on both of our parts. She has always been one to argue and at this point, I am pretty ambivalent about saving the marriage. Plus, every conversation we have she says she is divorcing me no matter what. A lot of stuff I needed to get off my chest and I let her have it. It was a lot of things I've kept in for the last three months and I needed to vent and she was asking for it.

On Wednesday, I went to the house with my parents to get some things - namely the bed from the extra bedroom, my Milwaukee power tools (OM has been using them), my digital SLR, and a couple of other things. WW and OM were not there so she called the police but that did not amount to much because we have no separation agreement, nothing from the courts that say I can't go to the house, and I'm still on the deed (had a copy with me) .

That night, she called me and said she wanted me out of her life as quickly as possible and she did not want to have any contact with me. I then asked her why she had a problem with me coming over to the house that I own and have every legal right to be there yet saw no issue with the OM going to his father's place where he had a court order not to go there. Funny, she did not answer that. I told her good bye and hung up. She then tried to call 4 times but I didn't answer. I guess her plan B with me didn't last long.

This evening, she called again. We talked for about a half hour. I tried to explain to her the child support calculation - but she just wasn't getting it. She doesn't like it when the law doesn't suit her so she resorted to the old standby - "I am getting screwed by my husband in my divorce because I was a stay at home mom..." I asked her to tell me how I was screwing her if I was just following the law but she couldn't answer.

It is like talking to a wall...

I'm sorry the way things turned out HB. When you first posted here I thought things would work out for you. I guess I was wrong.

I may get blasted for this but who cares. Is there any way your wife would accept full custody for you in return for her getting to keep all the 'stuff'? House, cars, everything? Maybe the OM would talk her into it? Sorry if that sounds cruel but you shouldn't lose your kids over her affair. I'd do that in a heartbeat to keep my kids. She may just be foggy enough to agree.

Dang it man! No one, but no one, touches my tools. Milwaukee is good stuff, by the by.



I just wouldn't go there. Refer her to your lawyer to explain it. The way it works at MB, you talk reconciliation, lawyer talks divorce.


... or a foggy wayward. Nothing new here my friend, the question is... do you still want to play?

Maybe its time to go plan B.

OM had his trial today. Unfortunately, he was granted a continuance so it won't be until Dec 8th. Evidently he wants his mother to testify on his behalf and she couldn't make it today. (father and mother have been divorced for 40+years) I guess OM needs his mommy...

Anyways, the OM's father and a early 20's kid were talking about their sitch in the waiting area and the kid said he remembered the OM. He was the one that had the "hot" girl (WW who looks like she is 21) sitting on his lap in waiting area of the courthouse for his arraignment in October and making out the whole time. That's about par for the course for the WW lately - she showed up with him both times at family court too.

Right now, all I need is for her to agree on a temporary visitation schedule and I can go plan B on her. The problem is she won't agree to anything unless it is everyother weekend for me. (she has no basis except trying to be in control) If we don't agree, I'll force her hand and haul her into family court for a visitation petition. At a minimum I am looking for 50/50 until custody is decided in January.

Lets explore this:

WW DOES truly believe that she has found THE ONE. As hard as this may sound, I am convinced that she would kill for OM. I also believe that he has return feelings for WW as well. After all she is meeting his needs for admiration.

BUT...

Who she REALLY loves is Marlboro man. And OM represents that fantasy.

Now lets look at that word "love"

What she gives is adoration, submission and honour to her fantasy man. In return she gets to be Marlboro girl. Straight out of her little girl romance novel.

Our Marlboro man is enjoying the ride. He enjoys the position as teacher, dream spinner and lover. For now...

Eventually the cracks will show. The higher the ride, the harder the fall.

You want to know where the love is, look in the mirror pal. Here is someone who is prepared to endure for the sake of his family and the girl that he lost. There is no "good" feelings here, only pain, concern and frustration.

Yours is the labour of grit, growth and introspection. May you overcome.

Regardless of outcome, become the man that real men look up to.



This woman needs to be mastered as OM apparently has.

Don't discuss, act. If she wants to play hardball. Play. Keep her busy. Tie her and OM up legally. Tell her that contention equals less cash in the kitty for both of you. Exaggerate consequences for effect.

The bonus is that this prevents her from making her interviews. Neglects farm duties. And generally pressures their relationship.
Great galaxies, Marlboro man may even have to go work for a living!!!

(Tongue in cheek) By the way, what chance of slipping back to the house. Collect and sell all the double beds to defray expenses. No need for them now, right. No harassment, just business.

Imagine,

Awesome pep talk!You are 100% dead on about Marlboro Man and Marlboro Girl! With horses being such a huge part her life, I'm sure she has always dreamed of marrying a horseman and talking horses all day everyday without a worry in the world! Unfortunatly for me and the kids, she let that dream come true without any concern of the consequences. Everyone I talked to predicts a long and hard fall for her.

You are right - if I didn't love her and what we were and can build again, I wouldn't be on here. The easy thing would be to walk away and accept my fate. No.

I have been a doormat in the relationship - I had a crush on her since junior high and we finally started dating in college. She was the girl of my dreams. Sometime between ILUBINILWU and D-Day 2, she said she wanted someone who is not a pushover. Guess what, she expected me to be one of those fathers who accept Wed. night and every other weekend. She is realizing THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE for me and it is driving her nuts! For once, I am fighting back.

Okay, lets tool up your armoury.

There are a few excellent books on negotiation which you may care to read at your leisure:

* Getting to yes.
* Bargaining for results.
* Getting past no.

Meanwhile, I will clue you in on the salient details.

Negotiation should always be about recognizing the win-win situation. Frankly, this is where one where a negotiator learns to back off.

Before entering into discussion, you must KNOW what your BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement) is. We can investigate these later. Chiefly we focus upon the return of WW as point of negotiation.

The thing about dealing with negotiators (like foggy WW) is the ability to cut through their tactics by identifying their ploys. We call this process "Naming the Demon".

She may have already employed some of negotiation's dirty tactics.
1. Rewriting history or terms of understanding is a classic. The reply is to have careful notes of actual history. When she introduces past feelings, and unmet needs use "reality testing questions" to probe why these were not communicated to you.
2. Bluster. Threats. Are you familiar with the concept of "active listening". This is the process of repeating what WW has said in another way to show that you understand not only her words but the emotion that accompanies her statements.
3. Flattery. Disown anything that is unrealistic or inconsistent.

I propose that you crystallize her and OM's indiscretions so that you are armed for reality interaction. CAUTION: Do NOT dwell on these crimes, this is PURELY for negotiation purposes.
By all means refer to OM as Marlboro man when she talks about him. Labeling helps to undermine the fantasy.

Its getting late here in Cape Town, if you want to hear more, let me know.