Something Senator_H wrote struck a chord but I did not want to threadjack, so I'm starting a new thread.

Sen_H posted:


Now without going into SenH's own sitch, I am left to wonder... do men really listen to thir wives? Because I swear, sometimes what I say goes in one of my H's ears and comes out the other. I'm left to wonder if he has developed an annoying habit of just tuning me out, or if it's just a guy thing.

A couple expamples: First, a particular item we were eagerly anticipating came in the mail. I said to him, "Hey our (item) came in the mail today, look!" and I held the item up. I thought I saw him glance up and acknowledge.

Then a few days later, I told him where I had safely stored said item, and he said, "You never told me that came." "Yes I did, I even held it up and showed it to you." "Was I in the room?"

ARGH!!! It's bad enough that he completely tuned me out, but the sarcasm kind of rubs salt in the wound.

Another time, we were out sailing, and I noticed that one of the lines on the boat looked like it was in the wrong place, which could have been a problem if left unnoticed and we needed to maneuver the boat. THREE TIMES I asked if the line looked right. No response. 15 minutes later, one of our friends made the same comment and re-led the line, and my hubby praised him up one side and down the other for catching it.

Hellooo??? I didn't say any more at the time so as not to create conflict in front of friends, but geeze Louise, did you not hear me asking the same question three times?? The only reason I didn't re-lead the line was because I was uncertain it was wrong (hence my question).

More generally, I'll make a comment about something I'm reading or seeing on TV, and a few minutes later, he'll make the same statement as if it were his original thought. Now I know great minds think alike but why did he not just agree with me when I said it?

So either I am totally invisible and ... or it's a guy thing. Thoughts?

Otherwise, stuff's pretty good between us right now.

You are a special person, GBH, and worth listening to. What are your beliefs about listening to one another? What about asking him what his beliefs about this are, his expectations of you and of him? An opportunity to clarify and get to know one another better.

When you shared with him at first, did you feel heard at the time?

GBH, how did it make you feel when he did this, and you realized that he didn't remember what you told him? Ignored? Insignificant? Disrespected? Lied to?

Have you shared your feelings with him? What was his response?

At the moment its me doing this a lot to my husband. I'm getting distracted by our small children and having to try and tune in and out of seperate threads of life all the time. Its kind of becoming a habit tuning in and out of what he's saying. I keep apologising and I know he's telling the truth when he said he told me already. I'm hoping its got something to do with being under stress and not getting much sleep here though and that it will pass because its not fun for either of us.

Rosy, what about telling him, I'm getting overwhelmed, I can't listen to both of you at the same time. Then you all let the interrupted one finish, and then all listen to the interrupter? So that as a family you all can learn to take turns?

My vote is it's a guy thing.

My husband does it and so do the Hs of almost every female I know.

I would like to think it would be as basic as each of us believing that we should listen to the other.


I thought I saw him look up and see what it was I was holding up. I didn't expcect a huge reaction, just acknowledgment.


OMG now you sound like Dr Phil!! J/K, actually I like Dr. Phil. I felt ignored and insignificant, somewhat disrepected. Not lied to at all. No, I did not share my feelings on it. Whenever I try to share my hurt feelings about something he might have done, he tends to turn it around on me and make it all my fault.

And this could be me... as the same thing occasionally happens at work. The culprit in that case is usually my boss, who happens to be male.

GBH, this is what I was afraid that you'd say. If he had listened to you with concern, you two would have already figured out some solutions by now. In the Basic COncepts, I don't see this so much. I see polite midwesterners being polite and friendly to each other, trying to understand instead of blame each other. When I lived in the midwest, I saw a lot of happy long-term marriages. We don't have much of that in the city I live in. But those folks who are married a long time, they are kind and patient and respectful with each other.

What about talking to your H about this issue? That you want a kind, loving husband, not an angry, accusatory one. One who likes to listen to you, and work with you to resolve concerns together. Instead of making it out that you are the bad guy and he doesn't want to hear it. Maybe you have.

Our MC recommended a relationship book that is not about polite midwesterners, who want to do nice things for their spouses, but are missing the target. It's about resenful, hostile folks who feel justified hurting the folks that they promise to love and cherish. Men, Women, and Relationships by John Gray. It's been pretty interesting.

Which is when you 'hear' him. "I hear that you think it has nothing to do with you. That's your feeling. My feeling is that I was hurt when you XYZ. So I guess whenever you XYZ, you can expect me to have my feelings hurt." And walk away.

Maybe ears_open will come here and give you some of the great links she has to stuff to read about how to communicate effectively so that he doesn't feel under attack and, thus, has to defend himself by blaming you.

Oh, that is too funny! Thanks, ears!

Nope, no polite midwesterners here!

Actually, we have one of the John Gray books (Mars/Venus) and I seem to remember it has a couple chapters on communicating about difficult stuff. It's been a while since I've looked at it and is probably worth a refresher read.

I don't always do a good job expressing my feelings without having the whole thing come out sounding like an accusation. So I started to use "I feel" statements a few years ago, when we were going through a rough patch, and the retort was "Your feelings are unjustified." i.e. I'm too sensitive and should stop reading so much into what he says or does.

But boy oh boy, this not being heard/listened to stuff is sticky with me, I think because it sometimes bleeds to work and I even remember traces of it in my childhood. Then I start thinking "Oh God, an unresolved issue from my childhood -- how will I ever get past this?" Then I cuff myself upside the head and think I'm making way too much of it. Sometimes I feel like a cat chasing its tail or something!

Hon, do NOT let that go uncontested. Next time, ask him what makes his feelings more justified than yours. Remember, feelings aren't good or bad, they just are.

Oh yeah, I know that. Feelings are feelings and not subject to justification or lack thereof. He is a very very logical and methodical person, while I am a more free-wheeling type. Thing is we have a lot in common, really, and get along well most of the time. In fact, when he seeks my input on stuff, he tends to listen. It's just stuff that he does not initiate that tends to get "lost."

I see your frustration and I raise you 10.

I think there was a study that showed men hear women's voices differently than they hear men's voices - something like, women's voices sounds more melodic to them, and the part of their brain that engages is the same as if they were listening to background music. When men hear men speak, their brain engages as if it is actually interpreting the words.
:RollieEyes:

I picture something similar to Charlie Brown's teacher's voice: we say something reasonable and logical, and they hear "Wah-wah-wah-wah-wah." They then claim WE aren't logical and reasonable!

I couldn't find that study but here's another one, proving once and for all that men only listen with half a brain!

http://www.medicine.indiana.edu/news_releases/archive_00/men_hearing00.html

One time, I was in a discussion group about promoting more involvement in under-represented groups. People were discussing how sometimes women will mention an idea in a group, it is ignored, and seconds later a man can mention the EXACT SAME IDEA and get enthusiastic approval. We were brainstorming things to do to combat that. I made some suggestion - I forget now what it was, and another guy jumped up and interrupted me, saying he was about to say the same thing and started explaining it in more detail... "stealing" it from me. Everyone turned and looked at me, and several ppl commented that was an example of exactly what we'd been discussing.

[women's voice mode on, so the men can't hear] It's extremely frustrating. Sometimes the best way I've found to cope is to remind myself that the poor dears suffer from testosterone-induced brain damage, and we simply have to make allowances. [women's voice mode off]

If any man heard that, or any fair-minded person of either gender, IT'S A JOKE!!! It simply represents a high level of frustration.

Very true. I also think part of it is embedded in us as humans, in that the man has always been the strong one, the provider of safety, the things a woman often just can't do (like lift a 200 pound rock to cover our cave entrance when the beast is coming to attack us) - the things that can quite visually mean life and death. Of course women have historically been responsible for many other life-saving responsibilities, but they are much more subtle. So they are taken for granted, ignored, or dismissed.

That, put together with a man's relationship with his mother as opposed to his father (nurturing mother as opposed to a 'go get 'em' dad - which the male will respond to more), can create an extremely subtle message in his mind that what she says really is not as important. After all, it's the man who makes the really important decisions, or does things to keep us safe.

Of course, then there's that thing about it's a woman's job to want to change her man, so he often doesn't want to listen.

Cat, jayne, you may remember earlier this year my experience with the bully at work. What I learned is that I needed to watch my boundaries much better. Not hope these problems are nothing, and that they will go away on their own. It's not okay with me to be talked over. I will share my O&H, even if it's one-on-one until I am comfortable talking in front of the group. Actually, I've been practicing bringing up a neutral topic or question a week in front of the whole group, to get used to it again. To train my brain. I am getting plenty of practice, LOL. I can undo the damage that I've done silencing myself, I just had to come to understand that it is worth the effort. That it reflects my values more than suffering in silence did. It takes what it takes.

Cat, that was what I learned from that Angry Controlling Men book. Why Does He Do That? Because he thinks it has no significant consequences for him. Until we are willing to share our O&H, and let him know otherwise. Instead of lying by omission until we are out the door for good.

Jayne, that guy who ran you over at the meeting, would you trust him with significant projects after that? Probably not, he probably lost your confidence. Could harm his career, if enough folks lose confidence in him. That would be good to know. This bully guy at my work, it was good for him also that we spoke up before it got to the Human Resources level. Before there was no room to backtrack and work towards a different reputation.

And I didn't mean any of that as a man vs. woman thing. I would tell a woman coworker if she had habits that made her look like a weak link at work, too.

Like if Hold told his W, I am no longer willing to stay "for the kids", you have 60 days before I give you papers, how long would it be before she started interviewing for a better job?

"Better" job? How in the world can she get a "better" job than the one she has now? Spend 30 minutes in the morning helping D11 get ready for school. Go back to bed. Get out of bed in the afternoon when the kids get home. Drive them to activities. After the last pickup get back into bed. On alternate days do the laundry and buy groceries.

For this she gets mortgage paid, car paid, utilities paid, weekly cleaning lady, health insurance, and a "company" credit card. Who is going to offer her a better deal than that?!?!

She may be able to get a job that provides more cash compensation. But I doubt she can find a job that requires less work on her part. I leave it to you to decide which is
"better". Mrs. Hold, through her behavior, has already voted.

But that is a hijaak. To get back on point: yes, the OP must use Radical Honesty to explain to her husband how she feels. She may also want to adopt more intrusive communication strategies. My wife has learned that there is no point in talking to me from any distance. If she wants my attention, she eliminates any distractions. She makes sure I am looking her in the eye before she starts speaking. She asks me if I am paying attention. And she asks me to repeat the message back to her to make sure I heard it. She assumes that if I am watching tv or reading the paper that I will not absorb anything she says. If I respond vaguely, she assumes that I am operating on "autopilot" and that the message has not been received by the thinking or remembering parts of my brain.

Think of it this way - your husband is a telephone answering machine. If you have not confirmed that he is paying conscious attention to you before you speak, that is like leaving a message before the answering machine beeps. Pointless.

Moral of this story: wait for the beep before you start talking.

I think there are two types of listening that we're talking about here. One is taking in information that the spouse is conveying. The second is being willing to make changes based on the OP's input.

I think men focus on one thing at a time. Therefore when the wife talks and they are watching tv or doing some activity all he hears is "honey....white noise".

The second type of listening implies that a husband is willing to be guided by his wife, and that isn't as common I think. It is a sign of a good partnership however. My dh says that I have traits that he lacks so he appreciates my input. However sometimes he thinks my advice is just plain silly and so he ignores it.

On Hold's sitch --- if your wife spends that much time in bed there must be something seriously wrong with her. Excess sleeping is a way of hiding from the world and responsibilities.

That's a really good point, one I thought about, too, but was too lazy to post about.

ANY person who gets up at 6/7 and then goes back to sleep until 10 or 11 or 12 is WAY beyond reality. If my spouse did that, I'd be kicking them to the curb. I don't work my a$$ off just so they can spend the entire day acting like Cleopatra. (sorry, went to Rennaissance Festival yesterday, and saw Sound and Fury - or Fakespeareans; they're hilarious; have a show they do on Cleopatra; or as they put it, Cleopatrick; see www.soundandfury.org; they're hilarious. But very NC17).

Sorry, Hold, I thought that she was still working a part-time thing in the schools. And better was a poor choice of words, sorry. What I was trying to say was a job that better fit the needs of your family. I think that working in schools is a great occupation, as is being a SAHM, but for a time they didn't seem to fit the needs of your family from neither you nor your W's perspective. That may have changed since we last spoke. Is she happier now as a SAHM? Are you both happy about that? Occupations aren't one-size-fits-all.