SW, I can tell you that if I were in her position, I too would be seeking the divorce, just to clear the cobwebs. Get everything neat and clean and understandable. Get my breath. Be by myself, learn about myself, who I really am. Get in touch with everything.

I've been married 30 years, so it would probably take me a lot longer than zora, but I would need at least 6 months, probably more like a year - by myself - before I'd be ready to approach you again. A year to heal and strengthen and prepare myself to do everything right the next time.

You can always get remarried.

Cat,

I understand your point. I hear what you are saying, but I believe in marriage. I dont believe you should get a divorce where there is any chance of the marriage working. I think that makes a bad situation worse.

And just to be clear, what Steve and myself have asked her is NOT to commit to repairing the marriage, but just to participate in an exercise to explore the possibility.

He convinced me its in both our best interests to go through the exercise because there is only positive to gain from it. Maybe you do decide to give your marriage a shot, or perhaps you dont but you have at least explored the possibility, and if you have explored the possibility and still decide to get the divorce then you are both better off for having done it.

I respect her for not, although I think its in her best interest to, because it would be easy to do what I did. Agree and go into it without your heart. That is just a waste of everyone time and money.

Have you read any of Mortarman's posts?

I think it would be good for you.

He was the BS, but his story is a lesson in forgiveness and goodness.

Well, given her circumstances, the only change I could recommend is a one-year separation. She needs to be on her own right now. Not to get away from you, but to learn herself, so that she can become a stronger, better person who could flourish in a marriage. She will not get that opportunity if she stays in the same home as you.

We are not in the same home, I moved out a few weeks back. She bought me out of the marital home, her parents gave her money and basically said I had to get out.

I did, I wanted to rent, butmy father the accountant ran numbers and said buy, with the tax breaks from having a mortage the montly cost would be little different.

I wish I had rented so bad.

I wish she would, I have no delusions this would take time and hard work, lots of time. I have no delusions of moving back home and having everything be peachy keen. I know that is a long way away and still have a ton to learn and change about myself. Change is easy to fake, real change takes time and a change in your belief system. She is so far gone, the paperwork she had almost done or possibly done online already, its just a matter of her filing it.

Judging from y'all's past stories, don't you think this is a really good time for both of you to be separate and learn to each be ok with yourselves? You both have so much history you need to deal with, demons, whatnot, learning, growing in faith...just so much you could be doing on your own.

That's why I hate to see people get together in their teens or early 20s - they haven't fully developed yet, and once together, they develop this one core being they both share. But that being is a amalgamation, a compromise, without exploring what parts are necessary to be a complete person. A healthy one.

Spend a year apart, still see each other, she said she was open to that, right? But both of you could benefit from this time to grow, so that if you get back together, it'll be as two healthy, happy people who want to be together for the next 30-40 years.

She is not open to that. She wants a divorce. She said there is zero chance. I would be more than open to that. I know I have a lot to work on, i know it will take lots of time and professional help along with the advice I get here.

I cant help but thinking she is just ready to quit and move on. The same place I was in but she never agreed to the divorce when I wanted it and I never wanted to force it on her.

I don't think its a coindisence that she is pushing so hard as I did when I found someone else that was making me happy. I saw the changed in her once she started that, although I did not realize why at the time. She treated me much different, there was a distance after that event. I just think with everything that happened she thinks its easier to get the D. I am not saying she is with the OM anymore, I do believe they broke that ok until the D or filing. But I think she is ready to get back out there. She has not said anything other than they have agreed to wait till we D, and she does not even know if they will work out.

Read Mortarman's posts.

Then LIVE and BE the person God wants you to be.

It WILL work out the way it's SUPPOSED to.

Trust.

I honestly believe my only chance to save this marriage is to let her be. I have enough to work on with myself, that days like today and worrying about her filing just distract me from what I need to do to better myself.

I will continue to hope and pray she does reread some material from here, and really look inside herself and consider all this.

I have asked her to do this, and she has said no to even rethinking things.

What can I do? I think just let her be, stop trying so hard and let things happen. I know there are a lot of friends and family prayinf for us, as am I.

I will, there were a bunch, but I will sort through them to find his story.

Cat, I gave this alot of though last night, and into the wee hours of the morning, and again at church this morning.

I believe you are right, not about getting a D and hoping we remarry at a later date, I am still against a D when you have hope to save and recover a marriage. I know what was in Zora's heart, she detailed them in many emails and posts. I know what is in my heart. That is worth fighting for.

I believe you are right that time is needed for myself, and for her. The pain of my actions before and during my A and what I did through ignorance, unwillingness to hear what she was saying for so long, and the pain of her relationship with my former friend are very fresh. I pray everyday for all of us. Im sure the pain of finally knowing what I had done is hurting her as well, badly. She trusted in me. I betryaed that trust. I betrayed my vows up front of god and our family, i betrayed myself.

I need to be able to let go of all that pain, learn from that pain, and grow into someone who can truly forgive myself for my actions. God has forgiven me,my pastor has convinced me of that even though when I went to confession my intentions were not in the right place, but I have not yet forgiven myself. I honestly do forgive Her and my former friend as I am the one who put them into that position. That is not saying I dont hurt from it, I hurt badly, but I do forgive them both.

I wish she would allow time to pass, perhaps with no contact, and then maybe some safe interactions like taking the dogs to the park, walking the dogs around the block or on the beach, or even having coffee now and again. She will not do this, she believes the best thing for her is to rush through a Divorce and start over. I still believe our best chance to have a happy, healthy, safe and caring family is with each other but she does not see that right now. We both have great parents who would do anything for us. There is alot of love in both our families.

I still dont know what to do about the D. I know what Believer said, I have consulted with my pastor and my parents, and I will talk to Steve as well as my IC next week. This is a very hard decision as I am trying to weight what is best for her as I cant bear the though of causing her any further pain vs fighting for a future I know can be something beautiful.

I value your opinion, I dont always agree with you, but I do value it as someone was is trying to help us both. There are a few posters here who I truly believe want whats best for us both whatever that may be. So Please let me know all your thoughs, and reasons for you opinions on this most important issue. I may ask for clarification if I dont understand, dont take that as I am being disrespectful, just want to try and do whats best and make sure I understand this from all sides before I can make the best decision.

Thank you,

Silverwind

Definitely ask Steve your specific questions.

I recommend:

1. Making the D take as long as possible within your budget.
2. Exposing both the A's to the family, and your current efforts to save the M.
3. Next time, tell family members or Zora, "For me to go back to my other job would be a terrible insult to the woman I love, even if we were divorced at the time."
4. Plan A.
5. Plan B.
6. Wait up to 2 years, since her current "relationship" will almost certainly have ended by then.

All the best with your job search. Keep in mind, you would be a better man picking up cans and living in a cardboard box, than working in contact with XOW.

(Not that I think it will come to that.)

Well, I have a friend down here, great great guy very selfless, but he drinks 70-90 beers a week on average. I probably can make a living since he does not recycle!

Thank you Neak for you honest opinion. I still am very torn about certain things, I will no doubt be talking to Steve about them as well as my IC, although I dont know how much they will be able to help, the IC that is, as its our first session. I have sent her links to my story here, as well as Zora's, so she can be aware of all the background without having to spend 6 months getting through all that. I only hope she does not cancel on me after reading it!

i dont know about telling her parents, I believe that they were both very drunk, and they only had one date after that night. I believe she learned enough here on MB to say wait a min, this is not a good idea. I believe her when she says this,maybe I am too naieve expecially with the things I have said and done, but I believe her. I wish they had no contact at all, but I believe they dont have any physical contact.

She has told her parents she was seeing someone, just not to the extent it went.

But thank you for you response and opinsion, I do value it.

Silverwind

Any contact at all is enough to keep her in the foghorn stage.

WOOOO-GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Except for the hurt it would cause you, it doesn't matter if they're having sex or not. An EA is just as damaging, and causes just as much of a WS alien mindset.

She wants you to go back to your old job, and to the OW, so she has continued justification to keep her OM.

Really really really the fog is your best friend right now. If she were not in a fog, and this cold toward you, I wouldn't think you had much of a chance. But since she IS foggy, you need to wait as long as it takes for the fog to clear, and see where things actually stand underneath it all. You won't have any way to tell for sure before then, but IMO this scenario lends itself to hope.

The thing is, I am not sure she is in a fog for him. She knows the kind of man he is, but I think she say a glimpse of what it could be like, not with him, but with someone.

I think she is this cold because of the things I have done to her.

Can you be in a "fog" not for someone in particular, but just the idea of someone else? No one in particular?

"She wants you to go back to your old job, and to the OW, so she has continued justification to keep her OM."

This is something she will not have, ever.

I will talk to Steve about all this, but in the 2 calls we have had, he did not suggest it. Would he not have done that is he though it was a good idea? I trust in this site and its principles. I have to believe he would have given me guidance to do so. No?

How deep a fog, no one has any way of knowing.

You can take full responsibility for your actions, for your cruelty that put your M in this spot, and still know that she would not be likely to flip in a couple of weeks from a brokenhearted BS doing everything in her power to save her marriage, to a numb woman, thinking she's healed and ready to move on with her new "relationship", without the assistance of the fog.

It just doesn't make sense any other way.

I know what I put her through, and I would change everything if I could. All I can do is look forward and not hurt her ever again. I never expected her to run back to me, why would she? So far I have not shown her much, except my willingness to make changes in my belief system and become a better person. But those changes I need to reinforce, for myself, over and over and over. I know how easy it would be to fall down and go back to the miserable person I was all those years.

Thats why I am so hesitant to contest the D she wants, I am so torn over this. I dont want to put her through any more pain.

Is there some way to ensure that the actual legal proceedings don't happen for a good year? Does it require your participation to occur sooner? If so, you don't have to agree to do it, just for the sake of causing her less pain. In the end, she may feel less pain by both of you taking it slower.

That said, that's not a guarantee she'll come around.

You're both in a world of pain, so it just doesn't make sense to rush into anything. Look at 6yl's thread.

So, long talk with zora. I talked to her about where I was way back when, tried to show her she is in the same spot now, and I dont mean the fog. I mean having no hope. How she was so far gone, for reasons that were my own though I did not know that until very recently, I had given up all hope. I wanted to try and show her hope is not dead but she is not willing to see any chance for us. Not now and I dont blame her.

Although this will be the hardest thing I have ever done, I see no choice but to agree to her divorce, and not try and drag it out. She deserves me to fight with her for once in our lives. I think she has earned a life without me, without the pain I have caused her.

I have done her wrong for a long time, way before my affair. It was from not knowing how to listen and communicate. That is the root of all our problems. And it started before we were married. And for 13 and a half years not knowing the simpliest things a couple should know, we are here today.

I write this knowing it was me who did this to us.

This may sound completly crazy, but had I not done that most vile thing which she knew at the time, even if she could not prove it, she may have never found this site and learned the principles that helped her grow and recover herself. And had she not found it, I would not have. Now I have my own path to follow to become the man I should have been all along. She is not a bad person for what she did with my former friend, she made a mistake. I love her dearly.

I love her with all my heart, I see such great things in our future, but I think she deserves to follow her own path, wherever that leads. I will not stop hoping it leads her back to me, not to the old me, but to the me I know is inside.

I know many will disagree with this decision, but I feel its the right one. I respect all your opinions, and will continue to rely on them.

Thank you all for your help through these dark times. I will continue to post here, as I need plenty of guidance on myself.

Silverwind.