I'd say either nothing, or 'thank you for listening to me.'

I think saying nothing was the right thing. I find with people if you kept pushing they just get defensive. By saying nothing you are "planting a seed" where they will think about what you say.

Okay, jayne, let me preface this by saying that I am coming from a different perspective, and that doesn't make me bad or wrong, just different.

"That isn't the way to promote intimacy or set a good example for the kids."

I wouldn't use something like this, because that's talking about facts instead of opinions. That's what was missing from my marriage, Jayne, my experience. Facts, he could have gotten anywhere. There are books full of advice and facts. But we missed out on a lifetime of sharing each other's experiences, because we were so lost in being "right".

What about sharing from your heart, Jayne? "This doesn't make me feel close to you. And I want that so bad, to feel close to you. I think about it every day. It makes me so sad, so sad that I can't sleep sometimes, because I am crying just thinking about it, how much I want to feel connected with you, and how hurt I am when you shut me out, when you chose to hurt me with yelling and anger, and I see that you don't want what I want."


How did you feel when he said that? I read my old posts, jayne, and read a lot of, "This is what H did. And this is what I said." Because I wanted a sanity check, when I wondered if others would feel as insane as I did trying to make sense of my life. I kept losing my feelings, my wants, my goals for myself. Even with the amazing help that I have. I don't want to see you suffer in that way, Jayne. I want to see you rise above the daily circumstances, flying so high.

jayne,

you started something NASTY with that dig at Lilhonda. We went seeking truely crap music and found this pic on a site, well check out the LAST one..

It reminds me of our chat last night.

german shepard

"I heart my German Shepherd."


Ok if you didn't like the leader of the pack's bike, check out meatloaf's bike at time 3:40 on here: (can you tell I'm a Sundaegirl fan?)



Here's a shepherd vid...



But some funnier vids from her, especially if yer old enough to know the song, are:


"Standin on yer mama's Porsche"


"Come along "Pretty Head". LOL" (I didn't know they had LOLs back then)


... and the sheep says, "Bom bom bom bom."

Hi cat, wanna, thanks for letting me know you think saying nothing to his "I'm sorry" was ok. I felt guilty for that, like I should've said "That's ok" or "Thanks" but that didn't feel true. I couldn't think of anything else to say so I said nothing.

ears, I see, when I stated the thing about promoting intimacy as fact, that's me lecturing him, educating him, with me being right and him being wrong?


I think at least with him I need to keep things much shorter than this. I was worried that my 4 sentences were too long, and I thought of breaking it up into two different conversations, but then I also thought bringing it up two different times would be "nagging" so I said all 4 sentences in one interaction.

The conch idea that ears suggested, I love that sort of thing too but I don't think it would work with H since he reserves the right to halt a conversation whenever he wants. When we were in MC a couple years ago it was all he could manage to sometimes do homework of 5 minutes of discussing something a week. He thought that was huge and he couldn't possibly be asked to do more.


When he said sorry, I thought "That's what you said the day before. What good is saying sorry if you're just gonna keep doing it?"

Daily circumstances, . I'm certainly NOT flying high.

Last night I had an evening class. I got out around 8:30, and I called home to see if there was anything to eat at home (like, leftovers from whatever he fixed for dinner, or anything, since we don't have everything in the kitchen yet) or if I should pick up something for me before coming home. He said the kids just had ravioli from a can and Lunchables (basically, a pre-packaged box of cheese and crackers and bologna. An obscene over-consumption of packaging and unnatural food, but the kids love it and it's an easy lunch for them to pack, especially when you're living in a Super 8.). I mentioned that I didn't like them eating those for lunch any more than necessary and I don't like the idea of them eating them at dinner. I didn't phrase it like that, I said it in a thinking-aloud sort of way, at least that's what I intended, cus I buy them as much as he does, and I let the kids take them for lunch, it isn't just him. So I was thinking aloud about how I feel about letting them eat them so much. He said, "They don't, don't worry about it." He said that in a conversation-stopper way, like he does when he doesn't want to discuss anything any more. I felt offended and insulted, that I should have a right to express my own opinion about what food our kids eat. I said so, and said I was just discussing it, that I should be allowed to discuss it; and hung up.

I thought about going out to a restaurant to eat, but was too tired. I unintentionally ended up just spending time on the computer until about 11:00, cus I couldn't decide what I wanted to do about dinner. Then I went to Walmart and bought some groceries including some stuff I could eat for dinner using just a microwave. It was after 11:30 when I got home. He was already asleep. I feel like he could care less whether I'm around or not - or maybe he'd even prefer me to not be around. Then he wouldn't have to have any pesky communication.

I see that I'm better about telling others to work on themselves instead of whining about their spouses than I am about doing it myself.

Should I think of something to do to meet one of his ENs? Should I think of another drive-by H&O, or did I do that enough on the phone? If I'd been home last night may have been the 3rd night in a row that ended with yelling due to talking to him after he'd had dinner. Maybe I should avoid him tonight?

My guess is you're all stressed so that accentuates everything. When you said you didn't think they should eat that stuff it was in the context of 'how well did you take care of the kids tonight while I was gone?' So when you rejected what he chose to do, he felt invalidated. So he shut down. That's my guess.

It doesn't matter your intention, or even how carefully you worded it. If it comes right after he said what they ate, it's a criticism. Hard not to make that leap.

If I were wanting my H to open up, talk more, be more comfortable and happy around me, feel safe talking to me, I would definitely work on his ENs, overtime, so that he thinks good thoughts when he thinks of me. I would make sure that my opinions about his actions were brought up when it was a 'let's reflect on the marriage' time, not as little zingers brought up randomly or right after the event. In other words, so that both of you know you are politely discussing the state of your marriage for this 30 minutes; after that, we'll just enjoy each other. I think that would make him feel safer interacting with you on a general basis.

Jayne, what I learned from cat and others is that staying quiet was part of my contribution to a crazymaking environment.

Here's a suggestion. Doesn't mean it's the right suggestion for you. But I am hoping that it will spark you in thinking through what you would like to do this evening.

Accept that you have NO control over the circumstances. Accept that he will be kind, or he won't, and it's not about you. Instead of asking yourself what you should do to get what you want from your H, what about talking to God, ask Him to help you with this letting go of the response stuff. To accept that He has a plan for you, for your H, and your M, and it's all going to be okay. The 180 really helps with this. If you google Marriage Builder 180, you get an old thread that goes into detail on it, if you forgot but are interested.

Ask God for guidance, what He wants you to do this evening? I haven't gotten a repsonse yet, but I feel good asking. I think the silence I hear means that it doesn't matter what I do or don't do, that that's more circumstance stuff. That I can just focus on Being. Being honest. Being myself. Being loving.

Look at cat, building in time for self-care! How are you doing with self-care, Jayne? Are you getting enough sleep? Enough nutrition?

cat, you're right, that he probably heard what I said as critical. I knew that even then in the back of my mind, but didn't address it. I just wanted to talk...

I just went back and read some of the beginning of your thread. You've made so much progress, and I feel like I'm stuck in the SOSO.


This is good. Stop the random little zingers. (Maybe my drive-by H&O seems like zingers to him?)

But the politely discussing for 30 minutes would have to be 5 minutes, max.


ears, this is good too. I see there's more to letting go of the response; helpful to bring God into the equation, give it over to Him; assume He's in charge and it will all be ok, I don't have to engineer the solution.

Jayne, it just hit me, you've been Plan Aing for a long time now, huh. No wonder you're feeling abandoned. Who's looking out for your ENs? Plan A isn't neglecting yourself, you know. It's you taking great care of yourself. While you elimininate your LBs and meet ENs in a way that you are enthusiastic about. The reality-bringer. To help you remember who you are. Like the advice Genoveffa was getting on her thread.

Have you ever tried a 180? What do you think about it?

I think I tried it once, and I think I got good results. I can't remember right now.

How long do you think your average reasonable person would be able to Plan A, in the midst of a cross-country move from two homes, both partners starting new jobs, coming off of supporting the family financially alone for a year, and active 6 year old twin boys?

Well... but my Plan A has been a poor one. So I keep thinking I need to keep at it cus I haven't done it right yet.

What do you think about getting more support in your Plan A? Like, IC, MC, calling the Harleys? My concern, Jayne, is that you put your needs on hold, while you're already under incredible stress, until your taker is so angry that you're grumbling all evening, and your H is yelling every night. It doesn't sound like a reasonable burden to put on one set of shoulders.

You're in a new place. Make use of that. Start new patterns. That include you-time. Find good babysitters or day care center and set up weekly time off for just you. Once you take care of yourself, you can deal with him with less anger and resentment.

Last night went well, but it was short-lived.

What's up?

I just can't win.

And by win I don't mean "I win you lose." I just mean there's nothing I can do.

The link to the articles seems broken.

I just submitted a request for a session.

Talk to us. Do you need to email or call someone?

Yes.

But the phone is upstairs.