love is in the air

Sheesh, Pep, I've been really sick for two days. Give a girl a break.....


I fixed it!!!


Thanks,
SB

SB-
Your H sounds like an incredible individual - just like you. i re-read my posts to see which one could have touched him so much and i didnt know. which one was it?

well- i feel VERY complemented by his emotion over my words and calling them "poetic", ( i have always enjoyed writing and have dreamed of writing a book one day) and the wonderful words he said about me.

i repeated those words to my H, and he said YES- that was how he felt. its amazing how people who dont know each other but live through similar situations can experience the same feelings.

i Loved your telling me about your being ready to walk out the door three times in the first 18 months. i feel so much better!

i have felt like walking out the door about one hundred times in the last 13 months! thats my problem- but anyway- that desire is lessening the more we work on the MB concepts.

i totally agree with you - these books will save our marriage if anything can.

we began some of the recommended acts this weekend - like spending all our time together when my H was not at work. this in itself brought us so much closer.

i guess for an affair to happen - two people must be living seperate lives. that is exactly what we were doing.

by this simple suggestion - it has already changed how we relate to each other. we discussed all the things we do on our own and how to start doing those things together on the weekends and evenings. some were a struggle to give up - but we BOTH used the POJA to enthusiastically do it!

You are also so right about me trying desperately to FIGURE THIS OUT.... and that i never will.

i read that you said you will probably NEVER understand how affairs start - and i think i am in your shoes. it is so against everything i believe in- that when i try to put myself in my H's shoes to understand how he did this- i am unable.


But then i realize - we both came to this point in our lives from different places. he had some severe abuse from his father- physical and verbal, and his father cheated on his mother...so he did not come into our marriage with the same issues i did.

maybe if i had been in his body and brought up by his family and experienced ALL that he did- i MIGHT?? have done the same thing?? idk.


i can let it go. i need to work on it more and more.



i choose HAPPINESS AND LOVE!

sf

PS - please - dont leave this board yet- i may sound selfish - but i am at a fragile point in my recovery. can you check in once a week????

Wow, this entire thread is incredible!! Thanks so much for such openness and transparency. It has given me so much to think about in my own situation which is very new. I just found out about my H's A on 8/10 and that it had been an on-and-off thing for about 3 yrs. He ended it in front of me and her and made the no contact commitment, but then just went on as if that's all he'd have to do and had the attitude that I should now just get over it so we could move forward. Boy has that really caused a huge anger issue for me. Thankfully though, he is starting to do some work and search things out for understanding and realizing the depth of the pain he has caused.....AND that there is no easy fix and that recovery is a long road. Our situation so parallels yours, SF, that I am so happy to have found this and been able to get some insight.

HI ldawk7

as someone once said to me- "welcome to the club no one wants to be a member of".

i am so glad that you got so much out of this thread. i find it liberating to just get out the emotions without anyone knowing me.

wow - you are in a much better place than me since you d-day was only two months ago. if i remember correctly- at two months out i was still sobbing uncontrollably, raging uncontrollably and ranting at the OW. i think i was in shock.

i need to give your H major credit for ending the A in front of you and the OW; and starting the NC right away.

but he has alot to learn if the thinks he can just say "I'm sorry " and erase all the pain.

i found that the only way i could start to move past was after my H recognized the depth of the pain i was experiencing, admitted that the A was a purely selfish act, and then WORK REALLY HARD ON OUR MARRIAGE AND ON PUTTING MY NEEDS BEFORE HIS OWN. oh and also- to commit to a TOTAL CHARACTER TRANSFORMATION.

as you can tell from my posts- i am still struggling everyday with R, but i have been so hopeful since discovering the Harley program and doing the exercises and books.

Have you gotten "Surviving An Affair" yet? this book is incredible. we are working on it nightly.

the reading and posting here has helped me so much, so you are in a good place to be.

it feels good to just be understood by other people in the same situation.

take care, SF

hi SF,

Thanks so much for your support and encouragement. Actually though, it is one month today since I actually confirmed my H's PA. I can't even believe it's been that long.....seems like it was just yesterday. I am longing for that really remorseful response from my H and have yet to receive it. I know he wants to work things out, yet he doesn't seem to be doing very much. He keeps saying that he's "processing" and dealing with a lot of stuff in private. This infuriates me because it seems so self-centered and selfish which is what caused him to have the A in the first place. He acknowledges that he's not moving at the pace I would like, but he says he IS trying to deal with it. There is just so much he doesn't have a clue about and doesn't even begin to understand, and I am getting frustrated because I know he will never learn anything or figure anything out by "processing in private." Anyway, thanks for enduring my venting.

Hi ldawk7-

I know how frustrating it it to NOT get the response you want from you WH. Its like you are bleeding and he is refusing to give you the band aid to stop the bleeding. I felt like screaming- "CANT YOU SEE I AM THE ONE WHO IS BLEEDING AND YOU ARE NOT HELPING ME HEAL????'

it took a long time- but i finally realized that my H can never help me heal- ONLY I CAN DO THAT!

but everything is so fresh for you- you are still in the shock of discovery phase. give yourself room to be and do anything.

find a really great friend that you can tell anything to without any judgement. i was so lucky to have 4 great girlfriends who helped me through this stage - when my H was not there for me yet.

the FWH is also suffering - and i think that their personalities that led them to cheat in the first place - (not facing problems and dealing with them; looking for a quick fix; and thinking only about their own feelings) are the exact things that will need to change for the marriage to go forward.

give him some time- talk to your friends, read, and post here. but the Harley books and do them together. that will force you to share with each other.

most importantly - TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

with good wishes and hopefulness, SF

OK - i need some advise from the vets out there if you can.

Pep and SB had told me that i would start to feel more attracted to my H when he started to protect me. then we had the whole discussion of my DD having playdates with teh OW's daughter. then my H had a talk with my DD and explained that she could no longer play at that house.

OK - i thought we were moving in the right direction.i also learned that i need to clue him in as to what to do to protect me. i find this hard because i want his protectiveness of me to come naturally - like and INSTINCT.

so first issue - OW's daughter tried out for the school basketball team. i asked my H ( who is coaching) to make sure that the daughter did not make the team. it not hard as this girl is not a good player anyway.

so last night after tryouts, the 2 coaches are discussing who to cut and she (a whole other topic - the other coach) asks my H about this girl - the daughter, and he says leave her in! Let her come back for the second tryout!

HIS EXPLANATION- he said he was planning to cut her at the next tryout.

my reaction - not good enough. should have been immediate- especially since i asked you.

SECOND- he goes to the grocery store tonight and runs into this same OW. according to the SAA book - he is not supposed to SEE OR TALK to the ow again. this is hard as 4 of them live in our town. she says hello to him and he keeps walking around her in the aisle- no looking at her or response.

i would have liked it if he had CHANGED DIRECTION IN THE AISL AND NOT HAVE WALKED PAST HER, SO SHE WOULD NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY HELLO AS HE WALKED PAST.

am i being too picky??? i dont think so.

HIS EXPLANATION - HE WAS WALKING AROUND THE CORNER AT TEH END OF THE AISLE AND SHE WAS WALKING INTO THE AISLE. SAYS HE COULDNT SEE HER UNTIL HE WAS ALREADY PAST HER. IDK.

i think he needs to be on the lookout for the ow all the time and be prepared to act defensively- just like driving. he shouldnt be coming around the curve that fast- because you never know who may be around the corner and this time is was!

then i explained how these 2 acts were NOT protective of me. he finally saw it and apologized and said he would change it for the next time.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO TEACH A PERSON TO BE PROTECTIVE???? ISNT IT AN INSTINCT?????

sf

i think he needs to be on the lookout for the ow all the time and be prepared to act defensively- just like driving. he shouldnt be coming around the curve that fast- because you never know who may be around the corner and this time is was!

then i explained how these 2 acts were NOT protective of me. he finally saw it and apologized and said he would change it for the next time.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO TEACH A PERSON TO BE PROTECTIVE???? ISNT IT AN INSTINCT?????


My take is that you are different from him, and he doesn't think as you think, and he won't see things you see. He may get better, but he may never see things just like you do.

Really, you don't want him to always be on the lookout for OW. You want him to totally forget her. If he does totally forget her, he may run in to her by accident.

Most of us are not that aware of our surroundings 24/7.

Be careful when you talk to him about things like this. He's not perfect, and it will take a while. Don't drive him away.

Like my W sometimes says - "He's a little rough, but he can be taught."


SS

First of all, thank you so much Sunflower for your encouraging post on 9/10. Things have gotten so much better since then and I am much more hopeful. It is like the blinders just came off my H and he has been able to see the situation for what it really is. He will openly talk to me now and has been able to see that what he was unhappy with me about (and what in his mind led to the A) he actually created because of the type of husband and father he had been for 15+ yrs. He is much more sensitive to my feelings now, but I know how you feel about wanting your H to just know what to do to make you feel protected, cared for, cherished, understood. It is just not as effective if we have to tell them how to do that, but I have come to realize that sometimes they really just don't know how to do it. In my H's case, he has never seen it or had it modeled for him. The biggest part of our recovery is that he has to learn a whole new way of being which is a little overwhelming to him because it's so foreign to him. He grew up thinking that a good husband and father is one that works hard and provides well for his family......period. So yes, they often have to be taught unfortunately. And like someone else posted in reply to you, they really don't think like we do or see things the way we do and we need to realize that. I agree that you don't want your H to always be looking out for OW....you don't want that to be his focus. However, I have talked to my H about having a plan if he ever does run into OW. He needs to be ready and know what he would do and not be caught off guard if it does happen. Maybe you could approach your H from that prospective and come up with a plan together.

ldawk7
HI! sorry - i have been away from this board for awhile since my dad has been in the hopsital for the last month, and will hopefully be coming home tomorrow from rehab, i decided to come back here.
i do sooooo agree that my H and most men, dont have a clue about how to talk sensitively to us. i have begun modeling what i wished he would have said. like if i bring up something about his affairs, and he answers in a way that is not helpful- i just tell him that my feelings are hurt by his response and it would have felt so much better if he could have said this........
it is working but slowly.
so glad to hear that you and your husband are doing so well!

i TOTALLY AGREE that my H needs to also learn a totally new way to being in a marriage and how to be a loving, kind, caring and giving spouse. he NEVER saw this in his parents marriage. the man totally dominated the woman and he equated kindness to your wife as WEAKNESS!! wow- what a revelation to learn that!!

anyway- we are working now on learning to meet each other's ENS. doing that survey was great- and we are reading the SAA book together.

working to a goal is great. i just need to learn how to trust him and let myself feel love again. i am still not ready and it has been over a year since d-day.

i think once i see more CHANGE from him, i will be willing to risk again.

Just and update-

My H and i seemed to have a major breakthrough last week and i wanted to share.

We were reading in SAA about the rule of time, and how relationships start with the dating and eventually go to only a little time spent together. Then we read about how most men expect SF with giving affection or conversation.

I said to my H - that he never wanted sex from me. he said that i was right - that he hated me long before the affairs started!

His affairs lasted for 12 years out of a 32 year marriage , so this was a LONG time.

i was shocked and hurt. i asked him if he could have worded his feelings into a more helpful way of expressing.

he did - we talked for hours and we discovered that -

he reallly didnt want a marriage - he wanted an admiration society from me 24/7.

he didnt want to GIVE anything - he only expected a parade from me every time he came home.

I - on the other hand - wanted a marriage with love and closeness.

since we were not looking for the same thing in the marriage- we hurt each other tremendously.

he admitted that he was shallow, egocentric, selfish and unskilled. that he didnt know HOW to have a close marriage - so he ran away from me - to work, to friends, to working out , to ANYTHING- flirting that eventually became affairs.

all i wanted was someone to love me.

and all he wanted was someone to love him

too bad that our definitions of love were polar opposites!

how could we have possibly have had a marriage when we didnt kow what it looked like? when we had two opposite ideas??

well- he finally saw marriage as it should be - 2 people who care and nurture each other - who meet each other's ENs.

we have turned a major corner.

i hope and pray that we can continue on this journey in a positive way.

maybe i can even start to let him into my heart again.......

SF

Just another update-

i was talking to Melody and Mimi on another thread and wanted to start this one up again.

i need some advise from the veterans out there and all the people who are happily recovered.

we read the chapter in SAA today about the policy of honesty. my H looked at me- when it talked about the LB and not creating an atmosphere that encourages honesty.

does that mean that when people REVEAL THEIR AFFAIRS WE AS THE BS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO YELL AND SCREAM AND BE THANKFUL THAT THE WS IS HONEST???? IS DR HARLEY FOR REAL HERE???

i cant imagine any person not reacting emotionally when the hurt is so great.

my H ran into one of the OW in the grocery story a few weeks ago and ignored her greeting. he came home and told me. i did get upset at hearing that she is still trying to talk to him.

he said i didnt do what the book said. i should have thanked him for his honesty.

is it really possible for a person not to react when being told that this situation???

SF

I agree with you Sunflower....this in NOT possible. Yes, I do believe that there is a proper time according to MB where we, the betrayed one's, are able to rant and rave...but once that initial ranting has passed it's time to June Cleaver ourselves. I know I sound spiteful and resentful (I am) but this part of the plan is annoying. I see HOW it's supposed to work, but it simply seems unreasonable. But, here I sit....still wondering where I stand with H. Perhaps I'm not the one to judge.

ABSOLUTELY..Dr. Harley is REAL HERE...

ANGRY OUTBURSTS are definitely a LOVE BUSTER...I used to be the QUEEN of them and still have this tendency and every time that I do, I now am able to see my H's DISGUST and WITHDRAWAL...

Yes, VENTING FEELS GOOD and open expression of ANGER/STRONG EMOTION is CATHARTIC but it is SELFISH, IMO...not good for a MARRIAGE..not good for MARITAL RECOVERY...I'm saying, PERSONALLY RELIEVING, at times, but not good for the MARRIAGE...

I can say this from being able to compare the WONDERFUL MARRIAGE that we have NOW..to the MARRIAGE that we had THEN...My H actually LISTENS to me NOW because I am able to express myself with calmness and conviction even about emotionally-charged subjects...

The SAME for HIM..he used to YELL and SCREAM at me and NOW has STOPPED..and "TALKING LOUD" as he calls it used to come more naturally to him as a means of expression..I began to tell him that I won't LISTEN when he talks to me that way...

And on a PERSONAL LEVEL, I strive towards EMOTIONAL CONTROL..that's not about DENIAL of my EMOTIONS..it's about TAKING CHARGE OF THEM...handling distress more APPROPRIATELY and EFFECTIVELY...

It's a much, much better way than that LOSS OF CONTROL which, in my opinion, accomplishes NOTHING in the LONG RUN..

It may SEEM to FEEL GOOD...at the moment..but it is self-defeating...is and was FOR ME...

I began this work, as part of my PERSONAL RECOVERY, when discovering my H's affair...

I learned that the more that I whined, screamed, begged, pleaded, cried..the LESS ATTRACTIVE that I was to HIM and TO MYSELF...PERSONAL RECOVERY and MARITAL RECOVERY requires EMOTIONAL CONTROL and EMOTIONAL STRENGTH...STRENGTH to continue to WORK THE PLANS..EMOTIONAL STRENGTH to do the HARD, HARD WORK of RECOVERY...

Fi:

I don't consider myself to be a JUNE CLEAVER. My GOAL is to be the best person, wife, mother..that I can be...PERSONAL RECOVERY..I continue to strive to LEARN and TO GROW as a PERSON...

For me, I had many, many faults that left my marriage vulnerable to an affair...not excusing AT ALL my husband's CHOICE to have an affair..but I can take responsibility for my part in our marital problems...



My thing IS and WAS..to take CONTROL of MYSELF..to work on MYSELF...you cannot control HIM..only yourself...

It means that you DO NOT LOVEBUST HIM. When you LB him, you push him away AGAIN. Lovebusters undo all the deposits you make from meeting his EN's.

Tell him thank you, kiss him, and then COME HERE AND UNLOAD ON US where you will cause no harm. Don't damage your marriage while it is in such a precarious state, SF.

It is imperative that your H fall in love with you again in order to affair proof your marriage. That ain't gonna happen if you engage in lovebusters!


Going along with you in order to avoid your anger is a sure fire ticket to RESENTMENT. If he does this often enough, not only will he resent you, but his sacrifices will lead to an entitlement mentality. Extreme giving leads to extreme TAKING. Sacrifice is BAD for a marriage. So, when he is too sleepy to talk to you, he needs to say - politely - "honey, please save that thought for tomorrow when I am not so tired. i want to hear what you have to say, but want to do it when i am awake and clear headed."

sf, have you considered going to a Marriage Builders weekend? It would do you a world of good.

June Cleaver?? June Cleaver?? Where did you get this notion, fiori?? I am not JC and never ever could be! I am a fun loving PAMELA ANDERSON!

June Cleaver????

I'm KIMORA LEE SIMMONS..LOL...

KLS