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Requirements for Recovery from an Affair Dr.Harley: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bcas your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details. Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I know what Dr H says. I have read the books. I have read just about every page on this site. I gave her SAA. Maybe if she reads it she'll admit it but I do not hold out hope. Getting her to go back and admit it or take a poly is not going to happen. I explained it was for me. She denies PA, we're going good, look ahead yada yada.
Bottom line is I either have to be able to move on as things are or divorce her. I know there was a PA and I know she lied to me about it. If the situation were reversed, I'd lie too. She thinks she's protecting me from the hurt. she is not and I explained all this to her already.
Change the changeable, accept the unchangeable and remove yourself from the unacceptable.
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Jim,
Refresh my memory please because I can't recall. Did you tell her you have evidence?
LC
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Bottom line is I either have to be able to move on as things are or divorce her. I know there was a PA and I know she lied to me about it. If the situation were reversed, I'd lie too. She thinks she's protecting me from the hurt. she is not and I explained all this to her already. I don't agree these are your only options. I think she just thinks she can get away with hurting you like this and is being cruel. I would hope you wouldn't also be so cruel to her. Don't you have evidence of the affair? Why can't you just tell her what you know [allude to more] so there is no point in lying about it? In other words, instead of asking, TELL HER? Frankly, if it were me, I would divorce over something like this, just because I know what you are facing. In addition to adultery you have to deal with being LIED to on a daily basis about your own life. It doesn't get much more cruel and manipulative than that. If you think your resentment is bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet. That is not a way I could live. If you stay and live like this, you will be just be choosing to live with a BODY because you can't have a marriage with a wayward who you know is lying to you. And she will ALWAYS be wayward as long as she is lying to you. SHE WILL NEVER RECOVER AND YOU WILL NEVER RECOVER. You will not have a marriage, Jim.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I don't agree these are your only options She won't admit it and won't take a poly. I have explained at length how I feel and why I need the truth to R and she denies the A. I think she just thinks she can get away with hurting you like this and is being cruel. I do not think there is an intent to hurt me. I worked hard to pull us back together. I hit her EN's and really pulled her back. I ignored the A and focused on reconnecting. She is really happy now. She has a sparkle in her eye I have never seen before and she seems to love me more now than ever. I may have had a part in creating this two-headed monster by focusing on her EN's and waiting too long to discuss the A. Don't you have evidence of the affair? Why can't you just tell her what you know [allude to more] so there is no point in lying about it? In other words, instead of asking, TELL HER? No more evidence, only the day I mentioned in my original posting (linked in post one of this thread). I did confront her and she denied it was what I thought it was. She is not a good liar under pressure and I stand by what I believe. SHE WILL NEVER RECOVER AND YOU WILL NEVER RECOVER. You will not have a marriage, Jim. I agree. I think she is just so in love and happy now that she is afraid what will happen if she admits to the A. She may think I will file for D. Her admitting to and A would be the most terrible thing she would ever have to face. She has low self esteem issues (PhD verified) to begin with and admitting to it would make her feel like the ultimate failure. I assured her that I would always love her no matter what and told her that her honesty what the most important thing.
Change the changeable, accept the unchangeable and remove yourself from the unacceptable.
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I agree. I think she is just so in love and happy now that she is afraid what will happen if she admits to the A. She may think I will file for D. "Radical honesty is so important in marriage that there is a much greater risk of divorce when a couple is not radically honest, than there is when a couple reveals very hurtful information to each other. In other words, you face a much greater risk of divorce by keeping those email letters secret than you do by revealing them. That's why we always recommend full disclosure." Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I agree. I think she is just so in love and happy now that she is afraid what will happen if she admits to the A. She may think I will file for D. Her admitting to and A would be the most terrible thing she would ever have to face. Jim, lets unpack this paragraph above, because I think you are missing quite a bit here because of your preconceived notions about your wife. She may think I will file for D. What this means is that she believes she can only keep you in the marriage based on a LIE, by defrauding you. If she believes you would leave if you knew, then that means she is choosing to manipulate you into staying in the marriage, FOR HER OWN SELFISH PURPOSES. That is not an act of love, but a very flagrant act of cruelty, manipulation and selfishness. Her admitting to and A would be the most terrible thing she would ever have to face. And wouldnt such a belief be another example of extreme selfishness? This sentiment, if true, would mean that she cares more about evading the consequences of her actions than she does in making amends to her VICTIM. Those are both examples of extreme selfishness and self centeredness and not examples of someone who is in recovery. I think by allowing her get away with lying to you, you are helping her be the absolute WORST person she can be and PREVENTING RECOVERY.' She is a wayward, with a wayward mind, and will stay that way until the truth is brought out. Neither of you are in recovery, Jim, do you realize this? I believe you are in a self prescribed program of CONFLICT AVOIDANCE instead of a program of recovery. By going along, you are enabling this state of non-recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I think by allowing her get away with lying to you, you are helping her be the absolute WORST person she can be and PREVENTING RECOVERY. I KNOW! Neither of you are in recovery, Jim, do you realize this? I KNOW! I understand all this. SHE DOESN'T. You're talking to me as if I am in a fog about how to recover. I am not, she is. I cannot get her to admit anything. I have read HNHN. I have read SAA. I understand what is going on. So what now? Tell her to take a polygraph or divorce her??? As far as my "proof" of a PA, from my original posting: As far as my "evidence" of SA. W and I were fooling around a few weeks prior to D-Day. There was male discharge present in her. I said nothing to her at the time but I have felt it enough times during past sessions over 17 years to know what it was. I remember specifically noticing it and thinking WTF. Then I thought it couldn't be, I must be nuts and really did not give it another thought until D-Day when it hit me. During a major MB I revealed this and she instantly made the excuse she was having her period and I was crazy. Two problems with that are I stay away when Aunt Flo is around and she got her period a week after that happened. So I have no physical evidence of SA that I can present but at the time I had evidence in hand (yuck) but I just didn't realize it at the time. Melody, your response to this was: You know, that would be horrible to have your husband think such a thing WHEN IT IS NOT TRUE. Would you be willing to drop this notion that she had SEX with the OM and APOLOGIZE if she takes a polygraph? I think the least you can do is afford her an opportunity to demonstrate her honesty to you. Would you be willing to give her this opportunity? I think that would be a very kind and considerate gesture on your part. So, with that as my only "proof", what if I am wrong? What if this is a self inflicted torture I am putting myself through?
Change the changeable, accept the unchangeable and remove yourself from the unacceptable.
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So, with that as my only "proof", what if I am wrong? What if this is a self inflicted torture I am putting myself through? "You know, that would be horrible to have your husband think such a thing WHEN IT IS NOT TRUE. Would you be willing to drop this notion that she had SEX with the OM and APOLOGIZE if she takes a polygraph? I think the least you can do is afford her an opportunity to demonstrate her honesty to you. Would you be willing to give her this opportunity? I think that would be a very kind and considerate gesture on your part." Are you saying that she doesnt MIND you going through this torture? Is that the case, Jim? Are you saying she REFUSES to take a polygraph when she knows it will put your mind at ease?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Jim, does the OM still live in your neighborhood?
Have you spoken to his XW to find out what she knows?
Have you spoken to the OM to try and get the truth?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Jim, does the OM still live in your neighborhood? Whereabouts unknown. Divorced, moved out of his house. Have you spoken to his XW to find out what she knows? No, she hates him and couldn't care less. Have you spoken to the OM to try and get the truth? Interesting turn of events this weekend. Saturday night W and I are watching TV. Her cellphone vibrates with a new text message. She checks it, clicks a few buttons and puts it away. I did not say a word but that got my mind going. I was able to check her phone later in the day and there was no message, sent or received at that time. I did not ask her anything. The next day, I log onto the Verizon site and check the messages and I get the number. It is not the OM's number but it is also not one I recognize. Maybe it was a wrong number? I go back to bills in previous months. There was a single message from the same number in July, one in August and one in September. Then in October there were 4, one each week. Every message was incoming only and there was NEVER a reply sent by my W. The next day I was thinking about this and I was staring off and W asked what was wrong. I flat out asked her who texted her last night. She replied it was OM and she was hoping I wouldn't ask. He sent her a message saying he was hoping everything was going good. This SCUMBAG is texting her from someone elses phone so his number doesn't show up. She never would reply to him, she told me this and as I mentioned, it is verified in the bill that no messages went out. Extensive EP's in place for other communications possibilities and I have found nothing in months to indicate contact from her to him. W and I talked about this and I explained my hurt, triggers and so on. I told her flat out that she cannot have any contact at all with OM. To do so would continue to trigger memories in my mind and it would end our marriage. She said she would tell him not to contact her. I thought about it and decided a phone call with both of us on the line was the way to go. I do not have his address. W said she doesn't know but who knows what to believe. She dialed the OM (phone number from memory which irked me) and he answered. She identifies US as being on the phone. She said I don't know if your aware but H and I are back together and working things out. I would appreciate your not contacting me any further. He said OK and I chimed in that what he did is a low thing to do and told him I did not want him calling my wife, texting my wife and if he sees her anywhere (baseball field with kids, etc) do not even walk up to say hi. He sounded scared/humbled and said OK, no problem, sorry. The rest of last night was high and low with me thinking about things. It bothered me that W did not tell me about the incoming text messages. I know she is happy with our progress and I am sure she did not want to set us back. I explained to her that she needs to tell me about things like this because when it comes out and it appears she was hiding it, it is much worse.
Change the changeable, accept the unchangeable and remove yourself from the unacceptable.
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The rest of last night was high and low with me thinking about things. It bothered me that W did not tell me about the incoming text messages. I know she is happy with our progress and I am sure she did not want to set us back. I am sure she did not want to get in trouble. Dishonesty is ALWAYS A SET BACK, Jim. Sure she is happy to sweep everything under the rug. She has set this up in a way that protects HER from consequences while harming you. Everything is done to protect her, NOT YOU. You cannot protect yourself if you do not know the truth about your own life. If it were me, I would go pay a visit to the OM and ask him to tell you HIS VERSION of what happened. Give him the illusion that your W has told you more than Then let him know that there will be severe consequences if he ever contacts your wife again.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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If it were me, I would go pay a visit to the OM and ask him to tell you HIS VERSION of what happened. Give him the illusion that your W has told you more than Then let him know that there will be severe consequences if he ever contacts your wife again. I couldn't finish the full story in my last post. I am at work and it got busy. I can't visit him as I do not know where he lives. After W and I finished OUR call to OM, about 30 minutes later, I called him alone, without W knowing. I told him W and I spoke at length and I wanted to get his version of a few things to see if they matched up. I asked him a few things that I have learned went on and his responses were in line with most of what W told me. Neither could give specific dates about when things took place but it is really nothing I would expect someone to remember. If they ran into each other at a kids baseball game, neither could remember the dates when they talked to each other. With kids practicing or playing daily and it being 5 months ago, I could not remember a specific date either. I am sure she did not want to get in trouble. I think she really sees how her interactions with the OM have screwed me up and is absolutely willing to NC. Like I said, she appears to have maintained NC even when he was sending her messages. I think her reason for not mentioning the occsional text messages was because she did not want me to get upset when there was nothing going on. She did not want to reply and tell him to stop because she knew contacting him would be fatal to our marriage. It may have started out with her not wanting to get in trouble in July, when the D was in full swing. I know that when the D was on, W was concerned that any contact with OM would harm her case. She was told by her attorney to have no contact with OM during this process. I am sure that her not wanting to tell me about the occasional text was so I would not get upset. When I asked her on Sunday who the message was from, she did not even hesitate to tell me. I KNOW with certainty that my mind is playing games with me. Whenever I did not know where she was, when I reviewed my EP's, nothing was wrong, nothing was out of place. As BS's, we always assume the worst. When there are blanks in the story, we fill them in with the worst possible senario.
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