Medc:

It isn't worth the debate with you, because your right and I'm wrong.

SC brings it up to her husband, and he minimizes it and says it all her problem.

That's enough for me to know that IT IS A PROBLEM. He knows it, and has decided to to nothing about it.

Mr SC can say anything he wants to a man. Discussions between men without women around are differnet. More foul language, coarseness, fart jokes, etc. (maybe not for MEDC, you have stated previously you are the same with everybody) A quip or cute remark to another man are just that. Remarks. But remarks, by a known adulterer to other women is a line that he shouldn't be crossing.

You can POJA this all week. Mr SC is the one who needs to change. Mrs SC can "live with it" that's her choice. Mrs SC has decided that she DOESN"T want to live with it anymore. And SHE can have a better marriage if Mr SC realizes the error of his ways and correct them. He may not truly UNDERSTAND what effect his words have on Mrs SC.

LG

If it was a JOKE...there is NO implication. Just because another person MAY take something seriously does not change the motivation of the person from joking to IMPLICATING.

Perhaps, but she is not upset when he does this with men so it's not an issue. :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes:

This sounds like the worst of fog-babble - it's only bad if somebody meant it to be bad? Is that what you are saying? So when the WS has an affair but their motivation was just joking, then it's ok, regardless of how another person interprets it? Try explaining that to your children. :RollieEyes: Somebody add this line to the just for laughs thread.

Let him know how you feel. I agree he should stop as I have said several times before. I said only that the ONE situation you described was a joke and I am NOT about to judge your husbands intent based on a joke that is at worst, stupid.

I DO think you need to discuss this with him. If this bothers you so much, you need to make a decision as to how you are going to handle this moving forward. Personally, I don't think any FWS is due ANY consideration when it comes that are upsetting to the BS. Tell him how you feel...if he is unwilling to POJA the issue, then make a decision as to how you are going to respond. You have limited options here as you cannot force him to do something.

If this is the hill you are willing to die on, I say stand and fight. If not, it will continue as it is his nature.

Tabby, I am trying to Not talk down to you here...but you really need to learn the proper uses of words. If a person is joking they are not implicating. It is NOT possible for a JOKE to be an implication. Does SC really think her husband was implying that she would truly take money??? NO. Did the woman at the window think that either??? I sincerely doubt it.

I liken this to leaving Wal-Mart with my son. At times they will check your receipt. I will joke with the guy to check the kid...he's hiding a bike under his shirt. I am NOT implying my son is a criminal...I am joking.

My DH and I had the conversation many times pre A, that he could not tell me what should or should not hurt my feelings or make me feel upset. He can say,"Gee, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry." He cannot say, "That was a joke. I can't help it if you don't have a sense of humor. That is just the way I am. Get over it." Dr Harley calls that a DJ. My Dh now regularly seeks to protect me. That is why our M is fully recovered, I feel safe and I seldom even trigger.

This must be a boundary for SC not an issue to be POJAed. If it is not, her FWH may be W again or her M may be killed by her resentment.

Again, I do not understand your reasoning, Medc.

God's Blessings,

Say

The "comment" itself did not bother me at all as i knew he was joking and i did not really think that he thought i kept some of the woman's change (although i agree with Tabby that who knows what she was thinking as she was a complete stranger i am pretty sure she was from the opposing team as i have never seen her at any other events), but that is totally beside the point.

It bothered me that the comment was made to an "attractive women".

And i have talked to him about it over and over and over. He knows my feelings but i always get the same old "i am just being friendly, you are overreacting".

It has always bothered me and i have always said something about it and he has always been that way.

But since the A, it REALLY REALLY bothers me. And as LG pointed out earlier i wonder what he says when i am not around?????

SC,

Die on that hill! You still feel "so done" because your FWH has not changed and is not willing to and you are subconsciously waiting for the next A. Set the bar high enough for your own personal R as well as MR.

God's Blessings,

Say

Say that is about where i am right now and have been for quite a while now. I just feel like he has made no changes and does not feel the need to make any.

MEDC I agree that as a FWS he should not do it just because it bothers me whether he agrees with it or not.

Then you have your answer. Obviously, this runs much deeper than a joke for you.

Are you going to ask him to leave?

You know medc i have pondered with this question for a long time and i must say i can not answer it as of yet.

You know i love my H no matter how much of an [censored] he can be or else i would have never even tried to recover my M. And with a few exceptions (not including the A it was WAY WAY WAY more than an exception) he is a pretty good man.

However the A has changed what i am willing to tolerate i guess. So i am just kind of on hold for right now which is probably not a good thing because eventually i need to move FORWARD!!

Being you want it spelled out.

It should bother you.

He should not do it.

LG i wanted to thank you for posting this comment to me.

I have always belived that my H was more "flirty" than "friendly" and also moreso with attractive women. With this comment you at least made me feel like i was not ACTUALLY crazy (user name you know ) and that some men are this way.

You say that you do not throw out quips that are sexually suggestive or demeaning to Flamingo, but are you still as "charming" (this is your word not mine ) as you were pre-A?

wow, what a thread!

What I see here are two things, maybe more, but the obvious to me are, and I have to say I have not read every post, I see that you might be just picking at everything the man does because you have just reached your limit, just like I couldn't stand hearing my H eat, or drink or even breath, that repeticious in and out, I wanted it to stop, all of it. I didn't like him and I liked me less for not doing anything about what he had done, not making him "pay" he got to keep everything.
What I learned, and trust me, we are not out of the woods yet, is I stood back, looked at everything, learned as much as I could about his personality, my personality, our childhoods and what drives both of us to be who we are today.
You have to decide what it is you want out of this relationship, if you don't know he won't know.
What does marriage look like to you? What does it look like to him? Think of a couple that you know that has a good relationship. What is it that you need, and you have to put it in words.

Firstly, a lot of the best humour around revolves around implication and double meanings. Have you ever heard of Monty Python?

Secondly, I'll give you the point that this particular comment wasn't exactly implication. He stated flat out that she may have pocketed the change. Reading words in a post does not give you the advantage of tone and inflection, which can completely change the meaning of a sentence. Since she was upset that it seemed flirty, chances are it was said in a light, jovial tone. However, the same words in an angry tone could have been a flat out accusation and not a joke at all. The point is, the words were made to a complete stranger who may or may not have been familiar with his various tones. The person to whom the statement was directed to is absolutely critical in determining whether or not it is a joke - and in this case it was a stranger.

Look at sexual harassment in the work place, for example. I'm talking about the rules in your country - I had to take training when I worked there (and I worked for your Federal gov't) mostly so we knew how to recognize it and what to do. Basically, anything that is interpreted by anyone as sexually offensive is harassment in the workplace. It doesn't matter if it was meant as a joke. It doesn't even matter if it was said *to* you or if you simply overheard it. If something is said that you don't like, you can file a sexual harassment complaint that must be addressed. Similarily, if you say something that someone else finds offensive, they can file a complaint against you. It doesn't matter what you say. It doesn't matter how stupid it is. And it matters least of all what your intent or motivation was. All that matters is that it made somebody uncomfortable.

Now all of this has strayed - she wasn't even offended that her husband told the stranger she might be pocketing her change. She was there, heard the tone and inflection and knows her H well enough to know the intent. She was upset that this happened with an attractive woman. One could say she has issues of insecurity (probably well-deserved, but issues nonetheless). But it can also be said that it's pretty darn clear, even without tone or inflection, that she doesn't want him engaging in unnecessary conversation with attractive women and he protect her by stopping this. This is really the matter at hand.

DF i would agree with you if this had not been an issue pre-A.

Now i will agree that i have self esteem issues when it comes to my H but they too have been since the beginning of our relationship. I do not remeber if it was before we were married or shortly after but anyway there were two things he said to me ALL OF THOSE YEARS AGO (words can live with you forever) that i believe lead me to have the self esteem issues with my H.

He told me i was a "Plain Jane" and when i got upset about he said there is nothing wrong with being a "Plain Jane". The second thing was "if i hadn't married you i probably would have married a knock out" and when i got upset about that he said he did not mean it the way it sounded. Me personally i can not think of any other meaning.

This (friendly versus flirty) has been an issue i have had throughout my M and have always told my H i did not like it and he has always said he is just being friendly and i am overreacting.

I just feel that since the A and since he has ALWAYS known that it bothers me, he should not do it for that reason alone (that it bothers me) and he is not willing to do that.

I guess i just come here to write out my thoughts to get other perspectives to see if i am looking at things "wrong".

And what would i want in a M, a man who loves, honors, and respects me at ALL TIMES. To me being "flirty" with other women (attractive or not) is NOT any of those things, but he sees it differently and i do not know how to change it. I CAN NOT make him do something he does not want to do. I just have to decide if i want to continue to live with it or not!!!

IF you are not prepared to do something about this, what do you really think is going to change. You have talked to your husband about this for years....and it hasn't changed. He KNOWS there is no penalty for his continuing to act in a way that he considers merely friendly.

I suggest that you either act on his refusal to change or accept his behavior. Just venting about this...or seeking out others to tell you that you aren't crazy is not acting. You are looking for like minded opinions...and trust me, your husband can find just as many, if not more people, that agree with him.

So, it is time to DO something besides just talk about this. If not, you are signing on for a continuation of the same old, same old.