Jerry this is a very interesting thread and please do not delete it. Sorry this is going to be long and maybe some of you will not even read it but it helps me if nothing else just to type it out.

I am not nearly as far along in my recovery as you or Bob Pure, but I still feel the same as you and he.

Here are my thoughts on my M anyway, be they “wrong or right” this is how I see things.

My H and I had a “great” M for a really long time (approx 20 years). We BOTH let life get in the way and we BOTH forgot to meet each others EN for a while (approx 2 years). My H had an A because he has “weak boundaries” coupled with his ENs not being met in the same way they had been for a long time, and then add an OW who was in “pursuit” of him and BAM, recipe for A.

So I Plan A’d and Plan B’d him (not nearly as long as a lot I have seen on here, from D-Day to when he came home was Jan 19, 2007-Feb 5, 2007) and he knew he had made a mistake and wanted to recover our M.

Now since then I feel like I have made a lot of changes in myself (changes that needed to be made), my H has been very remorseful for his actions, he has been transparent with his time and phone, he shows me that he loves me, all and all things are like they were when we had a “great” M, so why do I still feel like I am “so done”.

For me, I think it is because my H has not really changed at all. Like I said before he has tried to make amends for his A, but his “actions” for lack of a better word have not changed at all.

He still has “weak boundaries” and does not feel he needs to change them. He says “I have been friendly since we have been together and nothing happened until then” and when I say that it makes me feel like “how will I know it will not happen again?’ he will say “because I know me and I know I won’t let it happen again”.

Well guess what that is what he said when talking about the A after D-day. “I still can not believe I did that, it was so unlike me”. He feels there is no need for EP’s or basically to change himself at all because we had such a “great” M for so long that as long as we continue to meet each others ENs then all is “fine” in the world.

Well for me that just is not enough. I feel that he more or less “got away scott free” with his A. He has not changed anything about himself and does not feel the need to. Does this mean he just does not “get it”? Or maybe I am expecting to much? I dunno, but that is where I am right now and have been for quite a while now.

Hi Still crazy,,

I think one of the side effects (for lack of a better word) in recovery is sometimes as we recover we also address alot of issues in ourselves and what we want to change.

And sometimes imvho we have grown stronger because of we had to endure that we no longer want to accept "just ok", or "status quo", we don't want to settle, we want full recovery for ourselves, for our SO's and for our marriages.

I know I do not ever want to go back to the marriage I had before the A, not that is was bad, it wasn't, but I wasn't getting my needs meet either and in hind sight I had stopped growing as a person and had really lost myself in the life I had made, you know wife, mother, grandmother but not F-26.

I think sometimes if our partners do not do the work that they should on themselves that we are left feeling almost let down, almost "sigh" here we go again right back to the same old rut that started the whole mess to begin with. KWIM?

anyway just my thoughts, best wishes F-26

Is he friendly? or flirting?

Is it his personality?

Is it what attracted you to him?

Well still crazy don't they say great minds think alike? LOL

I don't know the answer either, I love my husband very much and he has done a lot of work both on hisself and our marriage, and he has also changed. Most days I am very happy and full of hope.

But then it's the other days,, oh well I guess that is the nature of the beast. Don't get me wrong I do not reget working so hard for the recovery of my marriage, I would do it again, perhaps alittle differently, but I'd still do it..

F-26

He still has “weak boundaries” and does not feel he needs to change them. He says “I have been friendly since we have been together and nothing happened until then” and when I say that it makes me feel like “how will I know it will not happen again?’ he will say “because I know me and I know I won’t let it happen again”.

For me, I think it is because my H has not really changed at all. Like I said before he has tried to make amends for his A, but his “actions” for lack of a better word have not changed at all.

He still has “weak boundaries” and does not feel he needs to change them. He says “I have been friendly since we have been together and nothing happened until then” and when I say that it makes me feel like “how will I know it will not happen again?’ he will say “because I know me and I know I won’t let it happen again”.

Well guess what that is what he said when talking about the A after D-day. “I still can not believe I did that, it was so unlike me”. He feels there is no need for EP’s or basically to change himself at all because we had such a “great” M for so long that as long as we continue to meet each others ENs then all is “fine” in the world.

Well for me that just is not enough. I feel that he more or less “got away scott free” with his A. He has not changed anything about himself and does not feel the need to. Does this mean he just does not “get it”? Or maybe I am expecting to much? I dunno, but that is where I am right now and have been for quite a while now.

As she was putting her change in her purse, out of the blue my H said “you better count that she might keep some for herself” and then he laughed.

Well I will give you an example and let you decide for yourself (because I believe it is flirting but he says it is just being friendly).

A couple of weeks ago we both worked the concession stand at our DS football game. An attractive woman came up to purchase something at the window. I took her order, got her stuff, told her what she owed me, took her money, gave her her change, and then told her thank you. As she was putting her change in her purse, out of the blue my H said “you better count that she might keep some for herself” and then he laughed.

IMO there was no need for him to have said anything at all to the woman as she was not being friendly at all (in others words other than saying what she wanted she did not speak another word while standing there).

Now I will admit that occasionally he jokes this way with men as well, but he ALWAYS does with females and even more so with attractive females.

And this is not what attracted me to him. He has always been this way and I have always not liked it and have always told him that I do not like it.

I would have been slapped by Flamingo if I said anything like that.

SC:

This line:


I would have been slapped by Flamingo if I said anything like that.

Impinging your HONESTY to get a smile out of an attractive woman. That's pathetic and disgusting. Demeaning as well.

Can he be friendly? Yes.
Can he flirt? Maybe. But not when your H is looking to use the flirting to guage his ability to "close the deal" like your WH was doing. Because that WAS EXACTLY what he was doing here.
Can he have said something amusing that didn't demean YOU? Certainly. But he didn't.

And THAT is WHY your recovery is stalled, and you are settling for less than you should.

Your WH still doesn't "GET IT" Flamingo and I have worked the food booth at DS's football game as well. Yes, I like looking at the pretty ladies, and not the ugly ones. I can make a cute comment. But I would NEVER make a comment that would demean my wife in the hope that the person on the other side of the counter would possibly smile. And SC? There WAS a time I could have done that. And that's the difference. You deserve, and SHOULD EXPECT the same.

LG

I do not think he was being anything but friendly. I sincerely believe it was YOU thinking, OMG, this is an attractive woman (was she attractive to him???). I think he made a joke that most people would laugh off...and yet others here are fueling your angst as though he asked her for her phone number then and there.

His ALWAYS acting differently with what YOU consider an attractive woman is an issue that should be discussed. If in fact you married a man that acts this way with men and women alike (and I am SURE you are more sensitive to his behavior with women) it will not be an easy thing to change.

It is the part of "in hope of making the person on the other side of the counter smile" that bothers me.

Ok, Medc.

Flamingo would not have literally "slapped" me.

However, I would have crossed a line with her with a comment like that. That would be a boundary for her.

And it WASN'T an innocuous sitch as you state. It seems to be prevelant in SC's relationship.

Disrespecting her, both in private and in public. Mr SC continues to do this. And SC's recovery is stalled. Gee, do you think why?

LG

there is nothing wrong with trying to make someone smile.

I do not see that as flirting at all. He was being friendly and funny.

IMHO, I think you need to lighten up a bit. (I only say that in regards to stuff like this....I DO think that IF his behaviors are truly different with women than men, this needs to be discussed).