Okay. There's got to be someone here who has experienced something like this.

My WH (doesn't help that he's a cop too -- no one EVER tells a cop what to do) flat out refuses to be told what to do, so he refuses to cooperate with Plan A or B. He says that he's already told me that it's over between him and OW, that there's no more contact between them and that if I cannot accept that, then there's nothing he can do. (Defeatist attitudes always work, don't they?)

The only problem with this is that since he said that he wants me to stay/he doesn't want to leave, he has changed all the passwords on the computer and cell phone log-in (that was how I found out and kept monitoring his activity). He's also gotten a laptop that is of course, password protected. He still works in the same building with her and has admitted that he still has feelings for her, can't "just turn off the switch." When I tell him that he needs to allow himself to be accountable, that he needs to EARN my trust back, he just says "well I can't do anything about your not trusting me. And I won't let you be constantly checking up on me. I can't live like that!" Yeah, he's a real gem when it comes to showing humility!

At one point, he said he needed to get help working out all his "demons." He was abused by his father -- both physically and emotionally -- when he was a child. However, almost 2 months have gone by and he has done nothing to find a therapist or actually do anything to help the marriage, like being kinder and showing some affection. Now he's saying that he can't move forward until I deal with MY issues of not being able to trust him, stop moping around the house, start being nicer to him, etc.

I know that through my own sessions with my therapist and through reading about MB and tons of other info on coping with infidelity that he is flat out wrong about everything. But nothing I do or say will ever convince him of that. He is in his fog and he's comfortable there.

I have pressed him about even wanting to stay married to me, and what is still the point. He still swears he wants to stay together. Sometimes when I talk to him, I feel like I'm talking to two different people!

He has been such a troll to our 9 yo son! He treats him like dirt, then feels bad, then goes out and buys him something. (Since this whole mess started, my son now has a cell phone, a PlayStationPortable with every game imaginable, and a laptop computer!)

This whole thing is killing off any kind of love I have for WH. I'm getting more bitter and resentful every day that he puts off getting help. I am the last person he will listen to, yet he still doesn't want to end the marriage. I hate what he's doing and I hate what it's all doing to my son.

Am I in a lose-lose situation here? I don't want my son hurt any more!

Help!

dragonflygal

DF, please get the book , Surviving an Affair from this website, and bring yourself up to speed on Plans A and B. They are not something for him, they are for you. He should never hear the terms.

If he refuses to end contact by leaving the job, then you would want to consider Plan B, which is separation.

But in the meantime, don't DEMAND that he leave the job, simply explain why your marriage won't recover unless all contact ends. Show him Dr. Harley's requirements for recovery. Take a different approach and just tell him this will not work unless he quits working with her. Give him a chance to leave first, and then if he doesn't, go into Plan B.

Secondly, the fact that he won't allow you to look on his computer tells me the affair is still on.


But he has not EARNED TRUST. Only an insane person would trust an untrustworthy person. And as long as he a) continues to see the OW at work and b) refuses to open up his life, you SHOULD NOT TRUST HIM. TRUST HAS TO BE EARNED. It is not a welfare entitlement for selfish waywards. Tell him, you would love to trust him again, what ways does he think he can earn it back?

As far as exploring his childhood, that is just a wild goose chase that will be a waste of time. Don't you have enough problems in the PRESENT?

He doesn't get the option to accept or reject Plan A or B. These are Plans that YOU conduct, whether he likes it or not and without his permission.

Plan A: Be the best spouse you can be, meeting as many ENs (emotional needs) as he'll allow without commiting any LBs (lovebusters). At the same time, EXPOSE the affair to anyone and everyone who may have an influence on ending it sooner (co-workers, family, the OW's husband etc.). NOTE: Exposure, though it makes him angry, is NOT a LB. It is a natural consequence of the affair.

Plan B: If Plan A does not end the affair right away, it will take it's toll on the BS (betrayed spouse). Therefore, you need to protect yourself by removing yourself from the abuse. You do this by ending all contact with him whatsoever. It begins by giving him a letter that states what conditions he needs to meet (end the A, establish NC with the OW, complete transparency with passwords, cell phones etc., and commitment to recovering the M). Then, you go completely dark - no visual, verbal or in-person contact. He has no choice but to rely on the OW to meet 100% of his needs (which she typically can't) and you don't have to deal with the abuse of having the affair thrown in your face all the time. You use this time for personal recovery - which you are going to need regardless of how it all ends up.

ask H if he can spare 30 minutes -


watch this video together

I understand the importance of exposing the affair. But do you have a letter that sounds businesslike, not like crazy woman making accusations, that I can use to send to his work?

Also, about going dark. That totally disrupts my son's life. It's not fair to break him up by me leaving and upsetting his routine. I'm with him most of the time -- drop off/pick up from school, help w/ homework, cook meals, etc. WH is very disconnected. "Quality" time to him is playing Xbox with his son. That's it. How do I go dark and still be able to be the mom I need to be??

I'm not sure what your timeline is, but I suspect you are really fresh off of d-day. Before you do anything, you need to calm down and breath.

Okay, next you need a plan. A real plan. Order SAA and read it. In the meantime, read everything here and continue to post. I suspect you havne't done a true Plan A yet which is necessary before Plan B anyway. And you can't just snap into Plan B anyway - it requires a degree of preparation especially when children are involved.

Regarding exposure, you can write a business-type letter or contact them directly. Either way, you should have as much evidence as you can muster up. It may be more difficult now that he's changed his passwords but there are other ways.

I'll post a general call for help to the vets here. There are some real experts that can helpyou with all the details.

I agree! Lets get the vets in here to help her.

I don't have current evidence, but I've got TONS of pages of phone activity between the two of them that occurred between June and August -- lots of it on city taxpayers' dime. So yes, I do have evidence, even though it's dated.

For now, though, I don't have any evidence of the A continuing. I have another cop friend though, who's looking into it and checking in with guys who work in the same building as WH. I'll give him a few more days to do some snooping and then check in on him.

Meantime, I will read the book and watch the video.

He is soooooo obstinate right now. Doesn't think he's doing a damn thing wrong!
I have to keep telling myself I'm not the one who's crazy here!

Thanks, Tabby. I appreciate your efforts!

dragonflygal

((dragonfly))So sorry you find yourself here but welcome.

I am certainly not a vet but just wanted to throw in my support of the great advice you have already gotten.

My FWH ended phone calls/TMs after d-day but he continued to be foggy due to work contact so I know what you are going through. My H was so foggy and disconnected from me and the kids, I thought I was going to go crazy until I found this site. It is very easy to get caught up in obsessing about what your WH is saying and doing, but try to keep focused on following the plans...

Do you need some Plan A links? I had to read up on my Plan A notes several times a day to keep myself on track.

Hang in there.

DF, as long as they continue to work together, they are having an affair. Any contact is a continuation of the affair no matter what he calls it. Let me give you an analogy. Lets say i am a recovering alcoholic. Would I ever sober if I continued drinking but just changed the name of my drinks to "business drinks?"

Because that is all your H is doing. I wouldn't waste a seconds time looking for evidence because you already have the evidence: THEY WORK TOGETHER!

Even though I am not a vet, I will continue posting until they get in here.

I have a letter that was developed by one of our members who is a corporate attorney. I will post it below. The letter should be sent certified to the Director of Personnell along with a COPY sent to your H's supervisor and the OW's supervisor, along with a top official.


You won't leave, you will ask your H to leave. And if he won't leave, then get a legal separation that makes him leave. You would stay in the home with your son and your H could have visitation. Once your H leaves you would go into Plan B.

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

dragonflygal,

You have two of the top vets posting to you - Pepperband and Melodylane have over 50,000 posts between them.

You can take their advice to the bank.


Nobody on the boards come close to the two of them, so I would not "wait" for anyone else to give you advice. Follow what they say.

You should be reading Surviving an Affair by now.

You should be doing everything you can for Plan A. Your husband has no "choice" in this. It has nothing to do with whether he agrees or not - he doesn't control it, he doesn't choose it, he doesn't have a single word to say about it at all. YOU DO PLAN A, PERIOD.

You need to get into gear on Plan A, because it is the engine that will feed any fire he has left for wanting to return to your marriage. So get it fired up.


Expose the affair. It will make him angry for sure. If you have to hire a private investigator, do it. I am not so sure you can count on his buddies in the police department - they hang together, and it's likely that the guy you are working with to spy on him has told him what you are up to. Hire your own guy, and don't depend on anyone on the inside of the police department.

Your letter to the HR dept. will probably need to have some proof. I've worked in government long enough to know that they will take your letter as a "marital issue" and be very gun-shy about going much further with it, unless you have enclosed some sort of proof with it, such as photos or phone records. If you have them, send them.

Expose the affair to the OW's family, and if she is married, to her husband. Call or write to her parents if you can. Do it, and don't prepare your husband in advance. He will only tell her, and she will tell everyone you are nuts and to get ready for some crazy woman saying crazy things about her.


While you are doing your Plan A, watch your husband's actions. Do not listen too much to what he says, because he is foggy and stupid. He is still in contact with the OW, and as long as that goes on, he will be foggy and stupid.

Look into his eyes, and know that there is a great deal of stupid inside that you have to get past - and know in your heart that beyond the stupid there IS a man you love. Focus on loving HIM - the husband you know is in there, and use the best of the Plan A to get to THAT man.


And pay attention to Mel and Pep, for crying out loud.


SB

I wanted to highlight this, for emphasis.

It always amazes me when a BS (betrayed spouse - you) thinks that for some reason they should/would leave the family home. For crying out loud, why would YOU leave the family home? YOU did not betray the family. your WH did. you did not lie, cheat, and break your M vows. He did. If he wants to screw some other woman, and then claim that he has a right to his privacy, then by all means, let him have his priovacy. Somehere else!

Explain to him taht you are eager to rebuild your M. You never imagined, in a million years that he would screw another woamn behind yoru back. but he did. And you ahvee this huge, gaping wound in your sould now. And you look forward to the day when you can fully trust him again. but it will take time, and it begins with him being a compeltely open book. No secret passwords, no working wtih his former lover, no hiding his cell phone calls. Fully open book.

if he is not reay for that level of honesty, you do no want to control him, or spy on him. You expect him to provide the open honesty you need to heal. If he can not do that, then he needs to live somewhere else. Period.

And please do not come back with the tired old excuse that "we can not afford the rent on apartment for him" because at the rate he is going, you will end up divorced, and he will be paying the rent on his own aprtment then.

dragonflygal,

How is your Plan A going? How are you holding up?

Come back and talk to us.

RHW